THOR 4: LOVE AND THUNDER directed by Taika Waititi (11/5/21) 9 9

[Jaydogrules]

On 8/31/2022 at 6:42 AM, Bosco685 said:

• 29th MCU film
• 4th Thor film
• 3rd highest (lowest) revenue ratio parallel to Thor (2011)
• 28% higher budget than Thor: Ragnarok

I'm sure Kevin Feige is already planning the next one out to match the current film. 

The big dumb budget is what wrecks the numbers for this thing, not what it made. 

Still, this movie has now made more than The Batman , sans China.  Any hot takes on that?

The Batman was by no means a "good" movie either but it was miles better than Thor 4, which is practically unwatchable.

-J.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:11 AM, ▫️ said:

I still haven’t watched this. I really liked Ragnarok so I’ll probably enjoy this too?

IDK, almost everyone I know says that L&T takes all of the worst aspects of Ragnarok and amplifies them.

That being said, today my coworker said that he watched it yesterday and really liked it.

[Artboy99]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:24 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

IDK, almost everyone I know says that L&T takes all of the worst aspects of Ragnarok and amplifies them.

That being said, today my coworker said that he watched it yesterday and really liked it.

baffling to me how anyone can actually like the film, yet many people have said they like it. Thor isn't Thor in the film at all in my opinion. To me Thor "died" at the end of Avengers: Infinity War after Thanos snapped the infinity gauntlet.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Artboy99

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:31 AM, Artboy99 said:

To me Thor "died" at the end of Avengers: Infinity War after Thanos snapped the infinity gauntlet.

Do we have any serious characters left? It was awesome when Stark made fun of Thor (in The Avengers), because he was like a fish out of water and Tony was being a classical sarcastic a-hole by venting with humor instead of curiously probing. Cap was decently serious, but he's gone. Serious Hulk is gone now that he can quip with the best of 'em. It seems like every character has the same shtick, and it's so boring. Some gravity with Thor's dangerous villains would be nice.

ZSJL and No Way Home are the only CBMs I would re-watch from the past 3 years.

[Bosco685]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:19 AM, Jaydogrules said:

The big dumb budget is what wrecks the numbers for this thing, not what it made. 

Still, this movie has now made more than The Batman , sans China.  Any hot takes on that?

The Batman was by no means a "good" movie either but it was miles better than Thor 4, which is practically unwatchable.

-J.

Other than you are force-comparing the 4th Thor movie with the same main cast and the main lead has appeared in eight (8) MCU films and the What If series to Robert Pattinson appearing in his first-ever superhero Batman role?

Well, also your analyst has not achieved that mental breakthrough yet. Have faith!

[D84]

Worldwide The Batman is still 15 million more than Thor 4.

[thegiftedone45]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:10 AM, D84 said:

I wish they'd made Ragnarok a serious film, instead of all the stupid  jokes. The story was good, but the execution is unwatchable for me.

This was my complaint with Ragnarok when it got nothing but praise.  I actually thought the humor fit better in love and thunder than Ragnarok. 

[Bosco685]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:21 PM, D84 said:

Worldwide The Batman is still 15 million more than Thor 4.

But don't you know? A movie making 3.9X production budget makes less money than an MCU movie making 3.0X production budget.

At least somewhere in the world where someone has forgotten to take their shoes and gloves off to count.

[Gatsby77]

So...this is now on Disney+ - just two months to the day after its theatrical release?

Wow...

I'm old enough to remember when you had to wait 6-9 months after a film had left theaters for a VHS release.

[Artboy99]

On 9/8/2022 at 5:56 PM, Gatsby77 said:

So...this is now on Disney+ - just two months to the day after its theatrical release?

Wow...

I'm old enough to remember when you had to wait 6-9 months after a film had left theaters for a VHS release.

I remember those days as well, now we are in the digital streaming age where the film is easily put on the streaming service. Release date for the blue-ray is Sept 27th so now it is about subscriber's on the streaming service over sales of the blue-ray which is another change.

[MetalPSI]

Dr. Strange was serious, and should be serious, always

But you take away the fact hes supposed to be the sorcerer supreme, we get the same old hot garbage

Marvel = Disney = Toilet 

Dreading Xmen or Mutants or whatever they want to kill it with

I was really looking forward to Mr Sinister, but a story as complex as that will just confuse the window lickers working at Disney, who think they represent their audience, and instead we are going to get gimmicks and good old fashioned 3 stooges fun

[Artboy99]

On 9/8/2022 at 6:08 PM, The Meta said:

Dr. Strange was serious, and should be serious, always

But you take away the fact hes supposed to be the sorcerer supreme, we get the same old hot garbage

Marvel = Disney = Toilet 

Dreading Xmen or Mutants or whatever they want to kill it with

I was really looking forward to Mr Sinister, but a story as complex as that will just confuse the window lickers working at Disney, who think they represent their audience, and instead we are going to get gimmicks and good old fashioned 3 stooges fun

can I please get a Wolverine movie where he hunts the "killer" of people, and encounters the Hulk in the wild. He assumes the Hulk is the killer until the Wendigo is discovered.

Why they don't make that movie is beyond my understanding...it would be box office gold.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Artboy99

[MetalPSI]

On 9/8/2022 at 6:18 PM, Artboy99 said:

can I please get a Wolverine movie where he hunts the "killer" of people, and encounters the Hulk in the wild. He assumes the Hulk is the killer until the Wendigo is discovered.

Why they don't make that movie is beyond my understanding...it would be box office gold.

Its simple

People making decisions think the audience is retarded and unable to cope with deep emotional material, without then taking the material out of context, or worse, emulating violence

You notice how villains have been dumbed down? They have always been depicted as buffoons in childrens shows, but in R movies, they were compelling and realistic. Since the 90s that has changed

We are spoon fed now, in a era of fear. The decision makers are petrified of producing films capable of being emulated and being blamed.

Remember Beavis and Butthead? Remember video games? Remember the public outcry that these mediums were corrupting youth?

Add in that this is all about money, nothing but the money, and only the money, things will only get worse

We have a complete lack of talent and imagination where we used to have it in abundance before. Now we don't get movies for the sake of telling a story, it has to prop up shareholder expectations as well

Its tripe, pandering and self fisting

 

 

[Gatsby77]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:26 PM, The Meta said:

People making decisions think the audience is retarded and unable to cope with deep emotional material, without then taking the material out of context, or worse, emulating violence

You notice how villains have been dumbed down? They have always been depicted as buffoons in childrens shows, but in R movies, they were compelling and realistic. Since the 90s that has changed

We are spoon fed now, in a era of fear. The decision makers are petrified of producing films capable of being emulated and being blamed.

Nah - a few counterpoints re. recent well-drawn villains:

1) Thanos - he had a point re. over-population - an understandable worldview - mixed with the appropriate contempt for the Avengers et. al. who he assumed (largely rightfully) were beneath him. A perfect example of this was the arrogance - and failure - of both Starlord and Thor to kill him when they had they had their respective chances - and failed to do so (er...at least Starlord's temper tantrum prevented Thanos's death).

2) Killmonger - another villain who had a point - yes - perhaps too simplistic in his playing Malcolm X to Black Panther's Martin Luther King, but he took an appropriately anti-isolationism stance for Wakanda that ultimately won out by film's end - even if not in the way Killmonger envisioned. There was nuance and complexity there - not cartoonish buffoonism.

3) Wanda - and her through-line from Infinity War through Dr. Strange 2.

First, she comes close to besting Thanos in Endgame - which was even more underscored by Thanos's opening comment to her: "I don't even know who you are." Then, WandaVision was masterful - and that the ultimate villain was Wanda herself - driven mad by grief. I long said - before the show even started, that what I wanted from it was simple. To show that 1) Wanda was one of the most powerful characters in the MCU (check) and 2) that she was bat-mess f-----ng crazy (check). The series provided that in spades. And that characterization is canonical - see the House of M storyline in the comics. Which logically brings us to Dr. Strange 2 - showing Wanda at the height of her villainy, powers, and ultimately, just...broken-ness (goes back to her being absolutely insane).

I don't think any of these villains were "dumbed down" for Disney audiences - nor do I think Disney is going in that direction overall.

For me, a key litmus test will be the new Daredevil series - the Netflix show left a tough act to follow, but Born Again was a classic - and brutal storyline, one of the best in Daredevil's 50+ year history.

Kingpin was portrayed by the Netflix series with far more depth, subtlety and empathy than I ever expected - even by the end of season 1, we understand how he came to be the man he now is, even if we can't condone it. He wasn't "dumbed down" for the audience in any way. 

 

[MetalPSI]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:17 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Nah - a few counterpoints re. recent well-drawn villains:

1) Thanos - he had a point re. over-population - an understandable worldview - mixed with the appropriate contempt for the Avengers et. al. who he assumed (largely rightfully) were beneath him. A perfect example of this was the arrogance - and failure - of both Starlord and Thor to kill him when they had they had their respective chances - and failed to do so (er...at least Starlord's temper tantrum prevented Thanos's death).

2) Killmonger - another villain who had a point - yes - perhaps too simplistic in his playing Malcolm X to Black Panther's Martin Luther King, but he took an appropriately anti-isolationism stance for Wakanda that ultimately won out by film's end - even if not in the way Killmonger envisioned. There was nuance and complexity there - not cartoonish buffoonism.

3) Wanda - and her through-line from Infinity War through Dr. Strange 2.

First, she comes close to besting Thanos in Endgame - which was even more underscored by Thanos's opening comment to her: "I don't even know who you are." Then, WandaVision was masterful - and that the ultimate villain was Wanda herself - driven mad by grief. I long said - before the show even started, that what I wanted from it was simple. To show that 1) Wanda was one of the most powerful characters in the MCU (check) and 2) that she was bat-mess f-----ng crazy (check). The series provided that in spades. And that characterization is canonical - see the House of M storyline in the comics. Which logically brings us to Dr. Strange 2 - showing Wanda at the height of her villainy, powers, and ultimately, just...broken-ness (goes back to her being absolutely insane).

I don't think any of these villains were "dumbed down" for Disney audiences - nor do I think Disney is going in that direction overall.

For me, a key litmus test will be the new Daredevil series - the Netflix show left a tough act to follow, but Born Again was a classic - and brutal storyline, one of the best in Daredevil's 50+ year history.

Kingpin was portrayed by the Netflix series with far more depth, subtlety and empathy than I ever expected - even by the end of season 1, we understand how he came to be the man he now is, even if we can't condone it. He wasn't "dumbed down" for the audience in any way. 

 

Thanos was completely misrepresented. He wasnt altruistic. HE was batmess crazy, worshipping death and hell bent on destroying the ENTIRE universe by becoming  god.

I don't know anything of Wanda from the comics, other than she was first Magnetos daughter and second an Avenger.

As for her portrayal in the movies, she was well done as a tragic character, but her arc isn't fully villainy, its once again anti hero. We are constantly reminded that the love of her life was killed, and she was denied a family. Her own brothers death is glossed over, hardly a footnote, let alone the city she lived and grew up in.

"I'm bad. No wait I found love. No, I'm bad again, oh wait, I've learned how selfish I am, so sorry"

Her character is possibly the most human, and what a regular person would do if they had powers.

Hardly the villain I want. Oh, look, its a reflection, I can relate to it and humanize it.

Tell me the last villain you despised, one that made you SCARED. One that took something you loved away from you, laughing all the while? One you WANTED to see dead, destroyed and were JUSTIFIED in feeling that way because the character was designed that way. Evil. Villainy. 

The definition of what a nemesis IS.

We have yet to see that in our superhero trope because of what I've already outlined.

Here's hoping Kang is the first real, formidable foe the Marvel universe spits out 

[jimjum12]

I'm streaming it now, maybe half through, and it isn't my cup of tea so far. Too much zaniness, too much forced humor. The effects are decent, but it just doesn't seem to fit the other three in the series. I'll be able to rewatch it, I'm sure, but not as often as some of the other Marvel movies. This is me, I'm not a big fan of spoofs, so your mileage may vary. ... although it has made me chuckle several times. GOD BLESS... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jimjum12]

The second half is a little more like it. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Bosco685]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:17 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Nah - a few counterpoints re. recent well-drawn villains:

 

Then, WandaVision was masterful - and that the ultimate villain was Wanda herself - driven mad by grief.

I have to disagree. The way they ended WandaVision thoroughly disrupted what started out as a very good mystery show.

All that wonderful buildup and it leads to THAT??

That dismissed the harm done to 3,892 Westview residents all to ease her pain without any immediate repercussions. She just flew off.

"Bye Wanda!"

[Gatsby77]

On 9/9/2022 at 4:52 AM, Bosco685 said:

I have to disagree. The way they ended WandaVision thoroughly disrupted what started out as a very good mystery show.

All that wonderful buildup and it leads to THAT??

That dismissed the harm done to 3,892 Westview residents all to ease her pain without any immediate repercussions. She just flew off.

"Bye Wanda!"

But it made perfect sense with her arc.

In this scene, Monica Rambeau, the CIA, military, etc. are all perfectly aware that Wanda can simply snap at any time, killing them all.

She's still insane and incredibly powerful - therefore eminently dangerous - they literally have no choice but to let her go.

Also - this isn't the last scene -- the actual final scene is of her, alone in the house by the lake, studying the Darkhold, actively preparing to level up her already formidable powers - which at the time we already knew was a direct lead-in Doctor Strange 2.

 

[Bosco685]

On 9/9/2022 at 6:09 AM, Gatsby77 said:

But it made perfect sense with her arc.

In this scene, Monica Rambeau, the CIA, military, etc. are all perfectly aware that Wanda can simply snap at any time, killing them all.

She's still insane and incredibly powerful - therefore eminently dangerous - they literally have no choice but to let her go.

Also - this isn't the last scene -- the actual final scene is of her, alone in the house by the lake, studying the Darkhold, actively preparing to level up her already formidable powers - which at the time we already knew was a direct lead-in Doctor Strange 2.

 

If you say so.

It was a weak ending that detracted from wonderful buildup. And defied logic based on the crimes she committed.

Brevity over excessive statements.