Heritage's Next Event Auction has started posting books ! 31 31

[tth2]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:39 PM, Dark Knight said:

Unfortunately after the cleaning, the colors now do not pop compared to how it was before and has slightly faded the deep oranges and blues it once had.

Without seeing it in hand, it's impossible to know how much of that is due to scanner/photo settings and how much is due to real change.

[Point Five]

On 5/11/2024 at 1:34 AM, Gotham Kid said:

I prefer this 4.5

This is the one I'm waiting on. No image yet but I'm told it's a real stunner.

[Aman619]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:53 AM, tth2 said:

Without seeing it in hand, it's impossible to know how much of that is due to scanner/photo settings and how much is due to real change.

Yeah. Old scan is dark. And CGCs free scans while saving us considerable time and effort could stand a quality and consistency upgrade. When they get around to it. Usually a little washed out with glare areas.  

[Primetime]

On 4/20/2024 at 8:18 PM, Silver Surfer said:

$200K+.

This 😎

[Silver Surfer]

Too bad about the tanning because structurally it looks pretty nice, clean spine.

[Dark Knight]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:53 AM, tth2 said:

Without seeing it in hand, it's impossible to know how much of that is due to scanner/photo settings and how much is due to real change.

Definitely best way to compare books. Unfortunately, we won't be able to see the book in hand when it was in the older label. Let's see soon how the Heritage scans look when they're up. 

I'm still in the assumption that the book was previously cleaned. I've seen multiple books that have some sort of aqueous cleaning done and still garner a blue label where tanning on the covers were lifted and the cover is now whiter. 

[Silver Surfer]

The writing on the cover. 

 

[lou_fine]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:31 AM, Dark Knight said:

I've seen multiple books that have some sort of aqueous cleaning done and still garner a blue label where tanning on the covers were lifted and the cover is now whiter.

Is this the type of work that Mark Wilson was notorious for back in the day?  

If so and books with this kind of cleaning are now residing in blue labelled slabs, then I guess Mark was right all along when he said back then that he did not considered this type of work to be restoration.  

[Dark Knight]

On 5/11/2024 at 4:30 PM, lou_fine said:

On 5/11/2024 at 9:31 AM, Dark Knight said:

I've seen multiple books that have some sort of aqueous cleaning done and still garner a blue label where tanning on the covers were lifted and the cover is now whiter.

Is this the type of work that Mark Wilson was notorious for back in the day?  

If so and books with this kind of cleaning are now residing in blue labelled slabs, then I guess Mark was right all along when he said back then that he did not considered this type of work to be restoration.  

I am unsure about Mark Wilson's restoration/conservation/cleaning practices, but I've seen before and after pictures that at least one or perhaps a few in the comic book resto. business are somehow cleaning the covers off of tanning, dirt, etc. with some sort of aqueous concoction (because dry cleaning will not clean it all off) and making the covers look brighter and whiter.

Not sure about the long terms effects would be for these books that have undergone that process, but when I asked Tracy Heft about it, he said doesn't know either.

[Dark Knight]

A little off topic, but I was casually browsing around Heritage's make an offer page and came across this steal of a sale back in 2022

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/11/2024 at 8:12 PM, Dark Knight said:

I am unsure about Mark Wilson's restoration/conservation/cleaning practices, but I've seen before and after pictures that at least one or perhaps a few in the comic book resto. business are somehow cleaning the covers off of tanning, dirt, etc. with some sort of aqueous concoction (because dry cleaning will not clean it all off) and making the covers look brighter and whiter.

Not sure about the long terms effects would be for these books that have undergone that process, but when I asked Tracy Heft about it, he said doesn't know either.

Are you sure they're not using blue light? Some flippers are using blue light in conjunction with peroxide and possibly getting some books through undetected, but other guys are supposedly using blue light alone, and I don't think CGC could catch that.

Edited May 13 by jimbo_7071

[comicjack]

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/silver-streak-comics-2-lev-gleason-1940-condition-pr/a/122420-13215.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

This book seems to be on the uptick 

[Dark Knight]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:35 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Are you sure they're not using blue light? Some flippers are using blue light in conjunction with peroxide and possibly getting some books through undetected, but other guys are supposedly using blue light alone, and I don't think CGC could catch that.

Not sure what the whole process of "blue light" entails but from what I read, it was some sort of an aqueous bath. They don't mention what's in this bath so they don't reveal their secrets.

[Silver Surfer]

I’m guessing that they key to avoiding detection of an aqueous bath is to make sure its odourless?

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/13/2024 at 5:09 PM, Dark Knight said:

Not sure what the whole process of "blue light" entails but from what I read, it was some sort of an aqueous bath. They don't mention what's in this bath so they don't reveal their secrets.

My understanding is that an intense beam of blue light can cause a stain to fade (the same way leaving your clothing out in the sun will cause a stain to fade). Some of these guys use the light only on white areas of the book while others are more liberal with it. In a video that I saw months ago, a couple of guys on YouTube were talking about using blue light alone (i.e., no bath) to treat books, but I have not been able to locate that video again. (I cleared my history in YouTube not too long ago, otherwise I could search through my watched videos and find it.)

If blue light is being used to lighten stains and foxing, that could potentially be done while a book is still in the slab. I don't know of any other way that a book could be lightened yet still retain the same slab number.

(I do think it's possible that the changes we're seeing are the result of differences in the scans, but there is no way to verify that.)

[Dark Knight]

On 5/13/2024 at 6:30 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

My understanding is that an intense beam of blue light can cause a stain to fade (the same way leaving your clothing out in the sun will cause a stain to fade). Some of these guys use the light only on white areas of the book while others are more liberal with it. In a video that I saw months ago, a couple of guys on YouTube were talking about using blue light alone (i.e., no bath) to treat books, but I have not been able to locate that video again. (I cleared my history in YouTube not too long ago, otherwise I could search through my watched videos and find it.)

If blue light is being used to lighten stains and foxing, that could potentially be done while a book is still in the slab. I don't know of any other way that a book could be lightened yet still retain the same slab number.

(I do think it's possible that the changes we're seeing are the result of differences in the scans, but there is no way to verify that.)

That would be something else!!! A blue light used to lighten books up while inside a slab. I've never heard of that before . I guess in this day and age, anything is possible. Would definitely like to see videos of that if they're still up. 

It's just a little upsetting to me that this new process of lightening up books so the paper is whiter and still garner the unrestored blue label is a bit misleading, at least to me. Something was done to improve the appearance of the book. Isn't that kinda like restoration? I prefer an original book with its light tanning showing it's age than something that was improved on with chemicals, blue light, etc. Dry cleaning is perfectly fine for me and I've had some of my books done with that process. 

There's some sort of a scandal floating around in the card world where a guy would work on improving the appearance of old or new cards by sinking the card in some sort of water based solution to remove dirt, oil, etc. to improve in its appearance and making the card look like it was freshly opened from a pack.  It's a form of alteration apparently. Well, for some reason, PSA has banned his account and the people who submitted their cards for this kind of work have all been deactivated by PSA.

Just look up Kurt's kard care and PSA. People are talking about it on YouTube or in sports card chat rooms.

This is somewhat similar to what we're discussing about books getting similar treatment. In my opinion, these books should belong in a purple holder.

[jimbo_7071]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:35 AM, Dark Knight said:

This is somewhat similar to what we're discussing about books getting similar treatment. In my opinion, these books should belong in a purple holder.

I agree that they should be in purple holders if there's a way to detect the treatment, but in the case of using only blue light, how would CGC be able to tell that fading was caused by blue-light treatment rather than by normal exposure to sunlight or fluorescent light? (They don't even seem to downgrade comics for fading, which might be even more concerning.)

Even if there are non destructive tests that could detect the treatment, I doubt that CGC is sophisticated enough to do it. Maybe viewing books under 1000x or 2000X magnification could detect evidence that some areas had been exposed to more light than others, but that isn't certain, and you'd need a highly-trained technician to do it. Besides, the time required to view books under that kind of magnification would be cost prohibitive for most books. It would probably have to be reserved for six- and seven-figure books.

[adamstrange]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:35 AM, Dark Knight said:

A blue light used to lighten books up while inside a slab.

I think they are mostly using this with books out of slab.  They clean, press, and lighten and then submit or re-submit.

[Aman619]

arent card collectors just as savvy about pressing and stain removal as the comics biz is?  Is this JUST happening with cards right now?  after all these years?  How did they hold out so long, and why now?

 

[Dark Knight]

On 5/15/2024 at 10:53 AM, Aman619 said:

arent card collectors just as savvy about pressing and stain removal as the comics biz is?  Is this JUST happening with cards right now?  after all these years?  How did they hold out so long, and why now?

 

I believe the whole cleaning, removing of stains on cards is quite recent. At least not as long as how comics have gone through the whole process. Maybe these card guys found out about restoration and such with comics and now just recently applying them to cards to see how it all works out.