When will the other shoe drop with CGC and the 'crack, press, and resub' game? 3 3

[Chaos_in_Canada]

9 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Which is why 1952 to 1956 Topps cards all have the sawtooth edge. O-Pee-Chee produced them, the cutting mechanism, basically, a wire-saw.

Do you know in what form T-206s were produced?

Sawtooth edges?? 

The PSA Mantles are from Alan Rosen. 

OPC was located in London, Ontario Canada.

Topps Chewing Company was located in Brooklyn & production facilities were moved to a plant in Duryea, PA, in 1965.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Chaos_in_Canada

[THE_BEYONDER]

7 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Pressing didn't begin in December, 1999, or with Matt Nelson, or with CCS. Far from it.. Pressing was already part of the equation since a decade or two before then. Does anyone really think that CCS has pressed anywhere near the equal amount of books that were pressed prior to the introduction of any pressing done by anyone connected to CGC?

Prior to this age of encapsulation, there was much less financial incentive to press books.   It all really began with Chris Friesen and CGC. 

[comicwiz]

47 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Prior to this age of encapsulation, there was much less financial incentive to press books.   It all really began with Chris Friesen and CGC. 

He had a few more tricks up his sleeve, apart from pressing. The floodgates really opened with Spectre boy.

Edited July 24, 2019 by comicwiz

[Bookery]

13 hours ago, kav said:

is there at least a consensus that there's no consensus? 

At Leavenworth there are 1,807 inmates.  At least, that's the consensus.

[Prince Namor]

The less offensive version

 

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Prior to this age of encapsulation, there was much less financial incentive to press books.   It all really began with Chris Friesen and CGC. 

The financial incentive to press books, I would think would've occurred not too much later than the financial incentive to SELL comic books began. I know I used to - for aesthetic reasons - put my comics over night in large books, with other books on top of them, to 'fix' them as early as in 1977. I can't imagine some dealer didn't figure out a better way to ultilize that in selling books.

I mean... wasn't part of the hubbub about the Mile High Collection, the fact they'd been stacked on top of each other and remained flat - making them that much more better looking?

[THE_BEYONDER]

15 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

The financial incentive to press books, I would think would've occurred not too much later than the financial incentive to SELL comic books began. I know I used to - for aesthetic reasons - put my comics over night in large books, with other books on top of them, to 'fix' them as early as in 1977. I can't imagine some dealer didn't figure out a better way to ultilize that in selling books.

I mean... wasn't part of the hubbub about the Mile High Collection, the fact they'd been stacked on top of each other and remained flat - making them that much more better looking?

I was thinking more about enhanced techniques such as spot pressing, where moisture was added prior to pressing.  Before CGC, .2 increments in grade weren’t financial windfalls.

Edited July 24, 2019 by THE_BEYONDER

[comicwiz]

2 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

I was thinking more about enhanced techniques such as spot pressing, where moisture was added prior to pressing.  Before CGC, .2 increments in grade weren’t financial windfalls.

And junior day colour touching of spines to "appear" nicer, didn't magically become "bindery chips" until then either.

[THE_BEYONDER]

5 minutes ago, comicwiz said:

And junior day colour touching of spines to "appear" nicer, didn't magically become "bindery chips" until then either.

What I find really surprising is the acceptance of resto removal by CCS where actual pieces of books are removed to turn purple to blue.  How does a grading company get away with this practice?

 

And yes, I realize in this instance...it stayed purple.

Edited July 24, 2019 by THE_BEYONDER

[RockMyAmadeus]

23 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

I mean... wasn't part of the hubbub about the Mile High Collection, the fact they'd been stacked on top of each other and remained flat - making them that much more better looking?

You mean, pressure from stacking can flatten books out....? No way!

[THE_BEYONDER]

13 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

You mean, pressure from stacking can flatten books out....? No way!

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

What I find really surprising is the acceptance of resto removal by CCS where actual pieces of books are removed to turn purple to blue.  How does a grading company get away with this practice?

 

And yes, I realize in this instance...it stayed purple.

I was wondering when someone was going to mention this. This is, in my view, a terrible problem. People are taking color touched books and chopping them up...all because of the "stigma" of being a restored book. 

The problem isn't the fact that it's financially rewarding, in many cases, to do this...that's just the end result. The problem is that "already extant" restoration, which cannot be "undone" without doing serious damage, is viewed as such a terrible thing that buyers shun them as "defective", which in turn creates that financial incentive to do it.

It's in stark opposition to proper conservation. I can only hope the market grows up and recognizes that restored books...even books that had amateur color touch 30-40-50 years ago...aren't pieces of poop which have to be "fixed" in order to be desirable.

[THE_BEYONDER]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I was wondering when someone was going to mention this. This is, in my view, a terrible problem. People are taking color touched books and chopping them up...all because of the "stigma" of being a restored book. 

The problem isn't the fact that it's financially rewarding, in many cases, to do this...that's just the end result. The problem is that "already extant" restoration, which cannot be "undone" without doing serious damage, is viewed as such a terrible thing that buyers shun them as "defective", which in turn creates that financial incentive to do it.

It's in stark opposition to proper conservation. I can only hope the market grows up and recognizes that restored books...even books that had amateur color touch 30-40-50 years ago...aren't pieces of poop which have to be "fixed" in order to be desirable.

It’s not so much that “people” are chopping them up, it’s that CGC is.

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

It’s not so much that “people” are chopping them up, it’s that CGC is.

I don't disagree. I think the environment where such a thing would be conceived, let alone carried out, is an excessively unhealthy one.

[Chaos_in_Canada]

2 hours ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Prior to this age of encapsulation, there was much less financial incentive to press books.   It all really began with Chris Friesen and CGC. 

Chris Friesen from Paradise Comics?

[comicwiz]

1 minute ago, Chaos_in_Canada said:

Chris Friesen from Paradise Comics?

Yes

[october]

36 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I don't disagree. I think the environment where such a thing would be conceived, let alone carried out, is an excessively unhealthy one.

There are some truly tragic before and after scans of scraped-up golden age books. A particular Planet 1 and Hit 3 come to immediately to mind. How anyone finds them more desirable in their "unrestored", really mutilated, state is beyond me. I just don't get it. And I don't want to. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is a Batman #6 in about 6.0 floating around out there that looked like a worm had eaten its way 2-3 inches from the top edge of the cover at the spine.

It looks hideous. But, it was "worth more" because the color touch was now gone.

I can understand small dots being removed...the size of a blunt #2 pencil tip, maybe...but anything beyond that is just mutilation.

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, Chaos_in_Canada said:

Sawtooth edges?? 

The PSA Mantles are from Alan Rosen. 

OPC was located in London, Ontario Canada.

Topps Chewing Company was located in Brooklyn & production facilities were moved to a plant in Duryea, PA, in 1965.

64 Mantles found in unopened packs. The OCs 65/35 T/B, like the 9, Mr. Mint wholesaled for $2200 and the centered ones, like the 10, were wholesaled for $2500. About 40 were sold individually, the rest of the Mantles were sold in runs #311 to #407. And yes. Sawtooth. Take a close look at the fraying on the edges and compare to 1990 Topps edges. Every card found in that case had distinctively "rough" edges, as do these two. The edges of each ply of cardboard do not end uniformly at one converging point on the edge giving it a rough edge as opposed to the type of edge machined by a sharp blade(later Topps cards). OPC manufactured cards from these years, as is the Gretzky, are among the easiest to detect trim.

[october]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

looked like a worm had eaten its way 2-3 inches from the top edge of the cover at the spine.

 

Yes, exactly. It looks like a worm path. So easy to spot....and avoid.