Tedsaid Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, chrisco37 said: As I said a few other times (not sure if anyone missed it or just ignored it)...from the scans, it looks like there could be CT by her foot. It may well be. But FYI, here are the graders' notes from CGC: Detective Comics #359 CGC Certification #: 2032899001 Color touch (Non-archival material small areas) Top Front Cover C-1 Tear seals to cover (Non-archival material) Top Front Cover C-1 light spine stress lines breaks color trimmed full right of whole book trimmed full top of whole book Interestingly, it doesn't mention the grease pen arrival date on the back cover. I speculated before that cleaning that was the main purpose of the CPR. I wonder if it worked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakeintheashes Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Is it possible somebody used a black marker in an attempt cover up a poorly done tear seal? Is that even a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infin8 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Although I was originally convinced that CBCS missed the resto, the following scenario seems somewhat possible.CBCS book cracked out to remove grease pen from back cover and attempt to remove black mark in checkerboard.Grease pen removed successfully, but checkerboard fix botched by a tear and in need of “non-archival” material.As far as micro-trimming, who knows!? Maybe before, maybe after, maybe not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Krismusic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 minute ago, comicwiz said: Great! Now I can go riding through the everglades on my new fashioned TEC #359 Krismusic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Tedsaid said: It may well be. But FYI, here are the graders' notes from CGC: Detective Comics #359 CGC Certification #: 2032899001 Color touch (Non-archival material small areas) Top Front Cover C-1 Tear seals to cover (Non-archival material) Top Front Cover C-1 light spine stress lines breaks color trimmed full right of whole book trimmed full top of whole book Interestingly, it doesn't mention the grease pen arrival date on the back cover. I speculated before that cleaning that was the main purpose of the CPR. I wonder if it worked? Also interesting they don't mention the staples. Tedsaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Quote Quote Originally Posted by Siggy Reinstate @DocBrown! Tedsaid: oh, god no please don't Tedsaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 7 hours ago, comicwiz said: FWIW you don't need a black light, nor would it work on "black" media (i.e. marker, pen, overspray, etc). It should work on black media-it's only black in ordinary light. I've used UV on black marker and it appeared as grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 7 hours ago, comicwiz said: That's just plain ignorance, and why a discussion like this is limited for people that can't wrap their heads around a persons experience trumping any of the tools you talk about. The fact you mention them even being necessary shows it. In forensics, tools are used. No one's experience in crime lab can trump the tools they use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miraclemet Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Tedsaid said: It may well be. But FYI, here are the graders' notes from CGC: Detective Comics #359 CGC Certification #: 2032899001 Color touch (Non-archival material small areas) Top Front Cover C-1 Tear seals to cover (Non-archival material) Top Front Cover C-1 light spine stress lines breaks color trimmed full right of whole book trimmed full top of whole book Interestingly, it doesn't mention the grease pen arrival date on the back cover. I speculated before that cleaning that was the main purpose of the CPR. I wonder if it worked? Im of half a mind that they just didnt bother to mention the grease pen arrival date since it doesn't affect the grade assessment... So we know the grease pen was removed? (any pictures of the back cover?) RockMyAmadeus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 5 hours ago, Buzzetta said: Meantime... I have big decisions to make... Beach or list things on eBay? Forecast says 86-87 but overcast... It sucks when you have off and everyone else is at work... If the Sun dont shine you get a tan by standing in the English rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, kav said: It should work on black media-it's only black in ordinary light. I've used UV on black marker and it appeared as grey. That's not the way UV light is supposed to work. You could get that contrast by having light reflect off the surface of a suspected area, and it would work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Tedsaid said: I had assumed it was an example of rage-bidding: when you will do anything to keep the other guy from winning your comic. We've all been there, amirite? You are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Tedsaid said: I had assumed it was an example of rage-bidding: when you will do anything to keep the other guy from winning your comic. We've all been there, amirite? Can't say I've ever done that. But I am pissed about a purchase I made two days shy of a month ago. I went to look at my purchase history, shows it was delivered... in Vancouver, B.C. The problem is I don't live there. So I login to eBay resolution center to see in big writing that I wasn't covered, but I should contact the seller to work it out. That was impossible since the seller was no longer registerred, and when I checked to see the string of negs it appeared he received very recently, his feedback was private. What the hell is going on with eBay?? I put in a claim anyway, and within minutes I saw the refund in PayPal. PayPal confrimed it was because the seller was deemed a fraud. I got my money back, but I lost about a month being taken for a ride by this tool. Tedsaid and kav 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, comicwiz said: That's not the way UV light is supposed to work. You could get that contrast by having light reflect off the surface of a suspected area, and it would work better. Atoms absorb and emit light by electrons changing orbit. Materials absorb and reflect in various wavelengths. Change the incoming light and you change the outgoing light. It's not a matter of contrast but interactions with light at the atomic level. They use numerous alternate light sources in forensics to bring up fingerprints, different inks etc. You can cover over pen writing with a sharpie, shine an alternate light source on it and see thru the sharpie ink, as in that scene in Manhunter (Red Dragon) where Lecter's message was intercepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Quote Although I was originally convinced that CBCS missed the resto, the following scenario seems somewhat possible. CBCS book cracked out to remove grease pen from back cover and attempt to remove black mark in checkerboard. Grease pen removed successfully, but checkerboard fix botched by a tear and in need of “non-archival” material. As far as micro-trimming, who knows!? Maybe before, maybe after, maybe not at all. If this theory shows up on the CGC thread, I want credit Nah. The original buyer bought the book on CL in August of last year. This year, because of CGC's crossover promotion, someone cross-subbed it to CGC, sometime in April (this would have been an express or walk-thru.) Now...there's nothing to suggest the book didn't exchange hands in between. We don't know. BUT...if the buyer in August is the same one who submitted to CGC, the most likely scenario is this: Buyer pays $10k+ for the book. Holds the book for 7-8 months. Sees the crossover deal with CGC. Decides to submit to CGC, and gets it pressed, Comes back restored. Buyer (or someone else) sells at a loss. Assuming the buyer who bought on CL is the same person who subbed to CGC several months later, buyers who buy on CL aren't generally novices. They generally don't spend $10k+ and THEN decide to doctor a book on the chance of the near-impossibility that CGC "misses" all three of those types of restoration. And someone who tries to "fix" that which is fixable would NOT then resort to a "restorative" (as CGC sees it) technique to fix a "botched" attempt to remove that mark. You tear something, you do the best you can to minimize the look, and then leave it be, because getting a restored designation does so much more damage to the book's value than a small tear along the top edge would. And...the mark shows no signs of change in between slabs. If someone tore that, they wouldn't then seal the tear and "hope CGC doesn't notice." Micro-trim, sure? Color touch? Ok, maybe CGC screwed up. But those two PLUS a tear seal...? No way CGC doesn't notice, and no way the submitter of that book would even try. And I would be willing to bet that, since the Ewert scandal in 2005-2006, no one has taken an untrimmed, high grade, high value Silver Age book and tried to "microtrim" it in the wild hope that CGC misses it..on the top AND right edges. And we don't know if the grease pen was removed. Notes aren't exhaustive. The top edge looks identical in both cases. The right edge can be accounted for by differences in the slabs, the pressing, the photos. Granted...little proven. It's still possible that CGC saw trim that doesn't exist. Immensely unlikely, but possible. And they could have called something CT that isn't. But tear seals are SUPER easy to spot. Probably easier than CT. And all three....? For the above scenario to have happened would have required a series of events that are functionally impossible. The simplest explanation is still the same: CBCS missed it all. ThothAmon and Buzzetta 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzetta Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, kav said: If the Sun dont shine you get a tan by standing in the English rain. Something came up and I will do that tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedsaid Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, miraclemet said: Im of half a mind that they just didnt bother to mention the grease pen arrival date since it doesn't affect the grade assessment... So we know the grease pen was removed? (any pictures of the back cover?) Honestly, it could be either at this point. There aren't pictures of the back from the sale at ComicLink, and the CGC notes don't mention it. So I'm curious, but I guess it doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzetta Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 hours ago, comicwiz said: That Flex Seal stuff though really works. It's no joke... You would be surprised what I have seen it used for with great success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Buzzetta said: Something came up and I will do that tomorrow. Good man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
