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Skybolt's Slabbed Good Girl Art Collection

Started by skybolt,

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skybolt

skybolt

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Hey Skybolt, I have a question for you. If I'm correct, you buy a lot of books both raw and cgc'd. All the raw books, you send to cgc. My question is, how many have come back restored?

 

I'd say out of approximately 150 GA books sent to CGC for grading, about 5 or 6 have come back with some undisclosed restoration work, and 2 or 3 that were qualified with the green label.

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The Black Hand ®

The Black Hand ®

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Hey Skybolt, I have a question for you. If I'm correct, you buy a lot of books both raw and cgc'd. All the raw books, you send to cgc. My question is, how many have come back restored?

 

I'd say out of approximately 150 GA books sent to CGC for grading, about 5 or 6 have come back with some undisclosed restoration work, and 2 or 3 that were qualified with the green label.

 

That doesn't sound too bad at all.

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skybolt

skybolt

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Hey Skybolt, I have a question for you. If I'm correct, you buy a lot of books both raw and cgc'd. All the raw books, you send to cgc. My question is, how many have come back restored?

 

I'd say out of approximately 150 GA books sent to CGC for grading, about 5 or 6 have come back with some undisclosed restoration work, and 2 or 3 that were qualified with the green label.

 

That doesn't sound too bad at all.

 

That being said, on average books have come back with a half to full grade lower than advertised.

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skybolt

skybolt

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I really haven't brought it up since I usually expect to receive slightly lower grades than advertised. I have returned a few books after a personal inspecttion though (within 10 days of purchase). That being said, if the book came back restored, an agreement was reached with the dealers afterwards (partial refund, book returned, etc.).

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Dale Roberts

Dale Roberts

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Posted
Hey Skybolt, I have a question for you. If I'm correct, you buy a lot of books both raw and cgc'd. All the raw books, you send to cgc. My question is, how many have come back restored?

 

I'd say out of approximately 150 GA books sent to CGC for grading, about 5 or 6 have come back with some undisclosed restoration work, and 2 or 3 that were qualified with the green label.

 

That doesn't sound too bad at all.

 

That being said, on average books have come back with a half to full grade lower than advertised.

 

Curious what you think about the grade coming back "lower than advertised".

 

Does this mean that you place a significantly higher value on CGC's opinion of the book than your own or another dealers opinion? I often wonder about this. Are Mark Haspel and Steve Borrock(and other graders) the only group of people in the entire hobby who can accurately grade a book? I would think that guys like Harley, Metropolis, Richard Evans, and numerous others are professionally just as qualified to offer a grade on a book as CGC is? What would be the difference between Harley and Richard disagreeing about the grade on a book, and Metropolis and CGC disagreeing about the grade? CGC actively acknowledges that their assigned graded is an opinion. It is printed on the back of every label.

 

I would like to mention that it is in CGC's best interest to be extremely tough in grading. It has happened in every hobby with 3rd party grading, whoever grades the toughest is the most successful. The fewer 9.4s that are out there, the more people want them. The more people want them, the more books will be sent in trying to get them. I would be willing to bet that generally when there is a difference in opinion about the grading on a specific book, the grade settles down instead of up.

 

Also there are things which CGC downgrades (such as a small, opaque, near transparent stain on the back cover which you can only see in certain light, and cannot see at all once it is sealed in a slab) that dealers have never and would never downgrade for before(or at least not to the point that CGC does). I just don't think that CGC should be the be-all, end all of grading in this hobby. What is it they say about absolute power?

 

I am not trying to slam CGC. I think it is better for the hobby if everyone can grade a book for themselves, instead of relying totally on CGC.

 

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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1633026250_2c940d79da_b.jpg

An old ebay purchase. Not as popular as some of the other Phantom Lady covers but still pretty nice.

bb

 

 

I think it's a lot better than "pretty nice". Sweet book! :cloud9:

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whomerjay

whomerjay

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Hey Skybolt, I have a question for you. If I'm correct, you buy a lot of books both raw and cgc'd. All the raw books, you send to cgc. My question is, how many have come back restored?

 

I'd say out of approximately 150 GA books sent to CGC for grading, about 5 or 6 have come back with some undisclosed restoration work, and 2 or 3 that were qualified with the green label.

 

That doesn't sound too bad at all.

 

That being said, on average books have come back with a half to full grade lower than advertised.

 

Curious what you think about the grade coming back "lower than advertised".

 

Does this mean that you place a significantly higher value on CGC's opinion of the book than your own or another dealers opinion? I often wonder about this. Are Mark Haspel and Steve Borrock(and other graders) the only group of people in the entire hobby who can accurately grade a book? I would think that guys like Harley, Metropolis, Richard Evans, and numerous others are professionally just as qualified to offer a grade on a book as CGC is? What would be the difference between Harley and Richard disagreeing about the grade on a book, and Metropolis and CGC disagreeing about the grade? CGC actively acknowledges that their assigned graded is an opinion. It is printed on the back of every label.

 

I would like to mention that it is in CGC's best interest to be extremely tough in grading. It has happened in every hobby with 3rd party grading, whoever grades the toughest is the most successful. The fewer 9.4s that are out there, the more people want them. The more people want them, the more books will be sent in trying to get them. I would be willing to bet that generally when there is a difference in opinion about the grading on a specific book, the grade settles down instead of up.

 

Also there are things which CGC downgrades (such as a small, opaque, near transparent stain on the back cover which you can only see in certain light, and cannot see at all once it is sealed in a slab) that dealers have never and would never downgrade for before(or at least not to the point that CGC does). I just don't think that CGC should be the be-all, end all of grading in this hobby. What is it they say about absolute power?

 

I am not trying to slam CGC. I think it is better for the hobby if everyone can grade a book for themselves, instead of relying totally on CGC.

 

Your point is well taken, I tend to agree with it. Personally, I do not like teh way CGC grades GA and I see lots of CGC 6.0's that I think are 8.0 and a lot of CGC 6.0's I think are 4.0, etc.

 

That said, I think most sellers of big ticket GA books have a good idea what CGC would grade a given GA book these days, yet IMO, even when throwing out the bottom 10% of graders (you know who these are), the raw grades they assign books are on average 1.0 lower than what CGC would give. Why do they do this? Some do it consciously, knowing that modest overgrading pays in both the short and long run. Others do it unconsciously, because they never recognized that they assign wishful grades when sellling yet are much stricter when buying.

 

In short, the grade is what it is, CGC should not necessarily be the last word, and there are some out there who can and do grade better than CGC. Yet most don't, and because CGC is now the standard by which we grade and sell, we are going to have to accept books being called "undergraded" or "overgraded" based on the CGC grade. When skybolt says that books on average come back 1/2 to 1 grade lower (assuming this means 0.5-1.0 lower) than advertised, to me this reflects a slight tendency of dealers to overgrade plus a slight grade inflation by CGC often attributed to "bumps" that we have discussed here ad nauseum. If buying mostly mid-grade books almost exlusively based on scans, I think getting books on average graded 0.5-1.0 higher than the ultimate CGC grade isn't that horrible. If we're talking books graded 9.0-9.4, then 0.5-1.0 off is not acceptable.

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

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Hey Skybolt, I have a question for you. If I'm correct, you buy a lot of books both raw and cgc'd. All the raw books, you send to cgc. My question is, how many have come back restored?

 

I'd say out of approximately 150 GA books sent to CGC for grading, about 5 or 6 have come back with some undisclosed restoration work, and 2 or 3 that were qualified with the green label.

 

That doesn't sound too bad at all.

 

That being said, on average books have come back with a half to full grade lower than advertised.

 

Curious what you think about the grade coming back "lower than advertised".

 

Does this mean that you place a significantly higher value on CGC's opinion of the book than your own or another dealers opinion? I often wonder about this. Are Mark Haspel and Steve Borrock(and other graders) the only group of people in the entire hobby who can accurately grade a book? I would think that guys like Harley, Metropolis, Richard Evans, and numerous others are professionally just as qualified to offer a grade on a book as CGC is? What would be the difference between Harley and Richard disagreeing about the grade on a book, and Metropolis and CGC disagreeing about the grade? CGC actively acknowledges that their assigned graded is an opinion. It is printed on the back of every label.

 

I would like to mention that it is in CGC's best interest to be extremely tough in grading. It has happened in every hobby with 3rd party grading, whoever grades the toughest is the most successful. The fewer 9.4s that are out there, the more people want them. The more people want them, the more books will be sent in trying to get them. I would be willing to bet that generally when there is a difference in opinion about the grading on a specific book, the grade settles down instead of up.

 

Also there are things which CGC downgrades (such as a small, opaque, near transparent stain on the back cover which you can only see in certain light, and cannot see at all once it is sealed in a slab) that dealers have never and would never downgrade for before(or at least not to the point that CGC does). I just don't think that CGC should be the be-all, end all of grading in this hobby. What is it they say about absolute power?

 

I am not trying to slam CGC. I think it is better for the hobby if everyone can grade a book for themselves, instead of relying totally on CGC.

 

some very valid points...in fact, in chicago of this year, when briefly talking with Steve B, I mentioned that I utilize CGC primarily for the restoration check (I buy a lot of my books raw, as I like to read them!), of which I have very little experience detecting, and that I don't "need" them to assign a numerical grade (though they do, of course), because I feel very comfortable that I know how to grade (to my tastes)...I tend to be on the way conservative side, but that is how I prefer to be...

 

that said, the market at large, has generally accepted cgc's "opinion" as the grade...partially because I feel that many collectors truly don't know "how" to grade relative to market perception, and many tend to be more forgiving on their own books, so cgc's second opinion is sometimes an eye opener...

 

as dale pointed out, I had a book that I conservatively graded a 6.5, thinking cgc would give it a 7.0...but it came back a 6.0, due to that back cover staining that really was invisible to the naked eye...I believe Silver Surfer had a similar experience...so, yes, cgc is not the "end all" to the grade of a book, but they have graded over 1,000,000 books now, so they are a market presence, especially when one sells...

 

6 one way, 1/2 dozen the other...

rick

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skybolt

skybolt

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Hey Skybolt, I have a question for you. If I'm correct, you buy a lot of books both raw and cgc'd. All the raw books, you send to cgc. My question is, how many have come back restored?

 

I'd say out of approximately 150 GA books sent to CGC for grading, about 5 or 6 have come back with some undisclosed restoration work, and 2 or 3 that were qualified with the green label.

 

That doesn't sound too bad at all.

 

That being said, on average books have come back with a half to full grade lower than advertised.

 

Curious what you think about the grade coming back "lower than advertised".

 

Does this mean that you place a significantly higher value on CGC's opinion of the book than your own or another dealers opinion? I often wonder about this. Are Mark Haspel and Steve Borrock(and other graders) the only group of people in the entire hobby who can accurately grade a book? I would think that guys like Harley, Metropolis, Richard Evans, and numerous others are professionally just as qualified to offer a grade on a book as CGC is? What would be the difference between Harley and Richard disagreeing about the grade on a book, and Metropolis and CGC disagreeing about the grade? CGC actively acknowledges that their assigned graded is an opinion. It is printed on the back of every label.

 

I would like to mention that it is in CGC's best interest to be extremely tough in grading. It has happened in every hobby with 3rd party grading, whoever grades the toughest is the most successful. The fewer 9.4s that are out there, the more people want them. The more people want them, the more books will be sent in trying to get them. I would be willing to bet that generally when there is a difference in opinion about the grading on a specific book, the grade settles down instead of up.

 

Also there are things which CGC downgrades (such as a small, opaque, near transparent stain on the back cover which you can only see in certain light, and cannot see at all once it is sealed in a slab) that dealers have never and would never downgrade for before(or at least not to the point that CGC does). I just don't think that CGC should be the be-all, end all of grading in this hobby. What is it they say about absolute power?

 

I am not trying to slam CGC. I think it is better for the hobby if everyone can grade a book for themselves, instead of relying totally on CGC.

 

Your point is well taken, I tend to agree with it. Personally, I do not like teh way CGC grades GA and I see lots of CGC 6.0's that I think are 8.0 and a lot of CGC 6.0's I think are 4.0, etc.

 

That said, I think most sellers of big ticket GA books have a good idea what CGC would grade a given GA book these days, yet IMO, even when throwing out the bottom 10% of graders (you know who these are), the raw grades they assign books are on average 1.0 lower than what CGC would give. Why do they do this? Some do it consciously, knowing that modest overgrading pays in both the short and long run. Others do it unconsciously, because they never recognized that they assign wishful grades when sellling yet are much stricter when buying.

 

In short, the grade is what it is, CGC should not necessarily be the last word, and there are some out there who can and do grade better than CGC. Yet most don't, and because CGC is now the standard by which we grade and sell, we are going to have to accept books being called "undergraded" or "overgraded" based on the CGC grade. When skybolt says that books on average come back 1/2 to 1 grade lower (assuming this means 0.5-1.0 lower) than advertised, to me this reflects a slight tendency of dealers to overgrade plus a slight grade inflation by CGC often attributed to "bumps" that we have discussed here ad nauseum. If buying mostly mid-grade books almost exlusively based on scans, I think getting books on average graded 0.5-1.0 higher than the ultimate CGC grade isn't that horrible. If we're talking books graded 9.0-9.4, then 0.5-1.0 off is not acceptable.

 

Well said whomerjay, I feel exactly the same way. (thumbs u

 

Since I'm fairly new to collecting back issues (a little over 4 years), CGC has had a huge impact on my buying and selling habits. I would've never spent thousands of dollars purchasing comic books if it wasn't for CGC. Even though I do agree that they do tend to overgrade (foxing, sun shadows, excessive marking, etc.) or undergrade (very light stains, slightly rounded corners, etc.) at times, they are still the authority that most collectors follow in this day and age (at least in the modern to silver age eras). Out of 300 total books (MA to GA) I've sent to CGC for grading, 90% percent of them have come back either right on or slightly lower grade than what I or the seller was expecting. Based on this percentage, I think most collectors have come to realize that on average most CGC books are strictly graded.

 

As whomerjay mentioned, being off by 0.5 to 1.0 grades for FN/VF books is not a big deal in my opinion. If it's a scarce book that I've been looking for for years, then I don't mind the slight grade difference just so I can have the book in my collection. Even if I have to take a loss in the future when selling the book, I don't care since I had to have it back then. However, if the book is common, and there are four CGC 8.0 copies sitting in dealer's websites or on ebay vs. four raw 8.0 copies priced similarley, I'd take the CGC graded copies everytime.

 

Now that I've started selling some of my BA and SA books to finance my GA collection, it makes a huge difference whether I purchased the book already CGC graded vs. buying raw and having it graded myself by CGC. For instance, 3.5 years ago I bought a 9.4 CGC graded copy of Iron Man #1 for $750. I just sold the book for $1,750 a few weeks ago. If I had spent $650 buying a 9.4 raw copy that came back as a 9.0 from CGC, then I'd barely be braking even at this point.

 

I understand that each dealer has their own way of grading, which I tend to agree with at times (otherwise, I wouldn't keep purchasing raw books from them). However, I have to be proactive in figuring out the system so that I don't tend to overpay for books that are fairly common in high grade. IMO, this is one of the reasons why I love this hobby, since it requires some thinking before making major purchases. I'm sure most of us would agree that it wouldn't be prudent to throw away thousands of dollars if we don't have to. None of us here is super rich!

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