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MCU's SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME (2021?)
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Started by Bosco685,

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drotto

drotto

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On 12/18/2021 at 5:26 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

And fifth, I don't really care which movie makes the most money and which movie has the bigger set of gonads or whatever. And fans who want quality storytelling shouldn't either. We don't want to see the same thing over and over again to the point of spinning wheels. Exploring growth and new heroes in this expanding universe should be the direction, not making nothing but Thor and Iron Man and Spiderman movies over and over and over again.

Yeah, Disney is not making movies just for you. While we would love to think the general audience is always ready to jump to the next new thing, history proves otherwise .  People love nostalgia, easter eggs, and call backs. Disney is in the business of making money and going forward it will need a hybrid approach.  Yes, they need to introduce new characters, but at the same time they need to keep the original characters in the picture.  Thinking they can kill, discard, or replace all  the original characters and expect all the new ones to go over just as well and to succeed to the same extent is foolish.  They need to keep the originals involved and slowly pepper in the new ones, and allow the ones who catch on to then move into the spotlight.  Thinking they can force a new character in abruptly and give them center stage is foolish.  I know Thor, SW, Dr Strange, and other are still very involved, but this approach where so many of the old guard can be replaced or pushed to the sidelines so rapidly is a mistake. How fast fans rushed to see Spider-Man again proves it.  It is why we have so many Superman, Wolverine, and Batman films, people still want to see these characters.  You seem to want us to throw them away wholesale. You can have both new and old, I hope Disney realizes it.

 

The modern entertainment industry has proven that iconic characters are REALLY HARD TO COME UP WITH (doing that for the hard of hearing here) even if it is a worthy goal.  That is why movie companies keep coming back to the same mainstay characters through sequels and reboots (as much as they do get tired).  Name me 5 characters created in the last 20 years that even approach the level of notoriety as the characters you are saying we should be done with.  Characters with the name recognition and fan base of ones like Superman. Hard isn't it. Tell those fans why they should give up seeing new stuff from those characters they love. Furthermore, at the time of creation it is almost impossible  to predict which will have staying power, and it can not be forced.

 

We have countless characters with the Spider-Man mantle at this point, but walk up to the average person on the street and ask them who Spider-Man is, and they will almost always say Peter Parker. That is why the character sells, and that is why they will continue to make his movies. Sorry the MCU needs Spider-Man, just as the DCEU needs Superman and Batman.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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It sounds like Amy Pascal was more the producer hero than people would realize.

Quote

Just as Spider-Man's most vicious villains were able to enter this timeline, Holland's Peter Parker gets help from other trespassers. Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield's versions of Spider-Man break into this reality and achieve the multi-generational reunion fans have been waiting for. Speaking with The New York Times, Marvel Studios president Keven Feige revealed how they were able to make this historical feat happen. According to Feige, it took more than a magic spell to get Maguire and Garfield, along with the other actors who played Spider-Man villains, to appear on No Way Home. He credits Sony producer Amy Pascal for convincing the two previous Spider-Man stars to say yes. Read his comments below:

 

"Getting everybody to agree with you about the cool, big idea [was the biggest challenge making No Way Home. 'Hey, we have an idea.Will you come sign up and be in this movie?' 'Cool! Can I read the -script?' 'No.' That was the hardest part. And that's where Amy [Pascal], who calls anyone anywhere at any time, is a master producer at making things happen."

 

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fmaz

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On 12/18/2021 at 4:28 PM, Bosco685 said:
  • Willem Dafoe
  • Alfred Molina
  • Jamie Foxx

All were clearly in the movie from the first two Spider-Man franchises. Then with the steady rumors of other actors involved - along with Charlie Cox - leading to folks wanting to see for themselves if all this was true.

What did I miss with nostalgia influences there?

You read what I wrote, yeah? I said I kind of agreed with you… but that I think the real impact of nostalgia is yet to come when they start promoting the BIGGER attractions.  I do think Dafoe and Molina for sure resonate, not sure Foxx does but maybe for some… but the so-called “hidden” figures (not to us, but the masses) I think will have a larger pull on nostalgia.  That was my point. 

So you didn’t miss anything on the nostalgia, you just missed a bit what I was saying. Or I didn’t say it well. I”m certainly open to that possibility. 😉

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Mr Sneeze

Mr Sneeze

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On 12/18/2021 at 5:26 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

And fifth, I don't really care which movie makes the most money and which movie has the bigger set of gonads or whatever. And fans who want quality storytelling shouldn't either. For me, I don't want to see the same thing over and over again to the point of spinning wheels. Exploring growth and new heroes in this expanding universe should be the direction, not making nothing but Thor and Iron Man and Spiderman movies over and over and over again.

Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night screaming, in a cold sweat, because in the dream you just woke from you really didn't like the latest MCU film all that much.

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NewWorldOrder

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On 12/18/2021 at 7:00 AM, drotto said:

This movie proves the MCU still needs the legacy characters. Eternals and Shang-Chi prove the core die hard MCU fans can garnetee about $400 million in box office.  If they want to hit those $1 billion type numbers, they need a broader audience.  That broader audience wants Spider-Man, Thor, Iron Man, Captian America, etc. Disney may regret some of the decisions to move away from those characters.

We have FF and X-men in 1-5 years.  I agree with what you are saying overall but they have another 10-15 years before they need to bring those characters back to the flagship.  I expect Dr Strange, Thor, Hulk and Mr Fantastic to lead the new avengers against Galactus.  Plus those mutants, especially Wolverine are coming! :cheers:

Still have Doctor Doom and Magneto to cause havok as well!  

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fantastic_four

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On 12/18/2021 at 7:50 PM, Straw-Man said:

lawd.  it is simply staggeringly good.  i'm kinda amazed that it could all be brought together so wonderfully.

Agreed.  It was good in the moment, but the more I mull it over the better it gets.  (worship)

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Bosco685

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On 12/18/2021 at 7:07 PM, fmaz said:

You read what I wrote, yeah? I said I kind of agreed with you… but that I think the real impact of nostalgia is yet to come when they start promoting the BIGGER attractions.  I do think Dafoe and Molina for sure resonate, not sure Foxx does but maybe for some… but the so-called “hidden” figures (not to us, but the masses) I think will have a larger pull on nostalgia.  That was my point. 

So you didn’t miss anything on the nostalgia, you just missed a bit what I was saying. Or I didn’t say it well. I”m certainly open to that possibility. 😉

The ground was laid with those stars revealed in advance. Then all the hounding of poor Andrew Garfield where he couldn't even catch a creative breath. Who wouldn't catch the hints? The Youtubers and reporters wouldn't even allow for a huge surprise.

Unfortunately, a sign of the times. :canofworms:

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@therealsilvermane

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On 12/18/2021 at 5:32 PM, Bosco685 said:

Thank you! Someone finally recognizes how critical Peter Parker/Spider-Man is to the MCU. Will you tell this fine individual?

 

On 4/12/2021 at 10:45 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

But the MCU became a global juggernaut with only a little help from Spider-Man in two movies, Civil War and Infinity War. Every other MCU film or Disney+ show has been a hit without Spidey's help. The MCU doesn't need him. As long as Marvel Studios keeps putting out compelling fun stories and colorful characters, they'll do just fine.

hm

I posted the bottom comment back in April when news stories broke that Sony was taking Spider-Man away from Disney/Marvel Studios again. My point was that if Marvel Studios can't have Spider-Man, then they will be okay. And it's still true. Marvel Studios was doing just fine up until Civil War. Black Panther and Captain Marvel did just fine at the box office without needing a Spidey cameo or tie-in. This was not to say that Webhead isn't important or that the MCU wouldn't be way better off with Spidey in their films.

Anyway, it's a moot point anyway. It looks like Spider-Man is here to stay in the MCU for a while. But going forward it seems like (SPOILER!) he's going to be the lovable loser again that everybody picks on. Peter's story will be the better for it.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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On 12/18/2021 at 7:45 PM, Mr Sneeze said:

Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night screaming, in a cold sweat, because in the dream you just woke from you really didn't like the latest MCU film all that much.

I didn't like Black Widow that much, though Yelena Belova was awesome and really the main reason for the movie's existence. I also didn't care for some MCU movies in the Studios' formative years like Incredible Hulk, Thor 2, Age of Ultron (except Vision), or Iron Man 3. Captain America First Avenger had to grow on me. I preferred GOTG V2 over V1. Ant-Man and the Wasp was just okay IMO. The MCU isn't beyond reproach for me, but that doesn't mean that my life isn't like 18.5% better because of the MCU or anything. 

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fmaz

fmaz

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On 12/18/2021 at 8:36 PM, Bosco685 said:

The ground was laid with those stars revealed in advance. Then all the hounding of poor Andrew Garfield where he couldn't even catch a creative breath. Who wouldn't catch the hints? The Youtubers and reporters wouldn't even allow for a huge surprise.

Unfortunately, a sign of the times. :canofworms:

I agreed until last week when my son told me he was talking to a few of his friends who were “fans” of the movies and they had NO idea of the returning characters other than those in the commercials. I think we are too close to it realize there are people who, unlike us, focus on other things.  I don’t trust those people nor do I value their life decisions… but apparently, they exist.  😂

Seriously, though, I was SHOCKED by the gasps in the theater… which seemed to confirm that a lot of people, thankfully, enjoyed the surprise.  It won’t last, past the weekend I’m sure, but good for them.  Got to think the marketing will shift but maybe not.

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fmaz

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I could write for an hour on this movie and how much I loved it.  

I started to write about how bothered I am that the few criticisms I read about this movie focused on how it was too overfilled with “fan service”… a term that got so overused during Infinity War/Endgame and is tired and incredibly misused here.  It means using content for content’s sake only… a form a pandering… and here, all these multiverse appearances are done so well, so smartly… resolving previously storylines, advancing into new ones, etc… that it’s far from “fan service.”

That being said, what I keep coming back to is the one moment that blew me away, and caught me unexpected.

Still not ready to go into spoilers for folks so

Spoiler

May’s death and the whole “With Great Power there must be Great Responsibility” moment.  I mean… stunning. Because we saw Uncle Ben’s luggage in the 2nd movie, and because we never saw the Spider bite, we probably all just ASSUMED the origin was what we thought it was… and that Peter had already had this moment with Uncle Ben. Normally I pick up on things in movies well ahead of the time when they are telegraphed by tiny things, but here when in Feast Peter said sending the villains back “wasn’t my responsibility” I didn’t catch it… They really earned that moment and it ended up so much more emotional than in any of the other iterations of Spider-Man, IMHO… because while we all loved Uncle Ben from the comics, here we got to love this version of May from three movies.  It was brilliantly done. 

 

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MattTheDuck

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It's hard to add anything that doesn't involve spoilers.  I managed to avoid anything that wasn't pretty common knowledge, so I had a few pleasant "surprises" (never going to top Giant-Man in Civil War however).  Really enjoyed this.  The story never seemed to drag and everyone brought their "A" game.  I thought a couple of the villains were better written than their original appearances.  Look forward to seeing it again.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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On 12/18/2021 at 8:53 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I posted the bottom comment back in April when news stories broke that Sony was taking Spider-Man away from Disney/Marvel Studios again. My point was that if Marvel Studios can't have Spider-Man, then they will be okay. And it's still true. Marvel Studios was doing just fine up until Civil War. Black Panther and Captain Marvel did just fine at the box office without needing a Spidey cameo or tie-in. This was not to say that Webhead isn't important or that the MCU wouldn't be way better off with Spidey in their films.

Anyway, it's a moot point anyway. It looks like Spider-Man is here to stay in the MCU for a while. But going forward it seems like (SPOILER!) he's going to be the lovable loser again that everybody picks on. Peter's story will be the better for it.

The crazy thing is you are so fixated on convincing yourself and everyone until Marvel Studios came along its characters were nothing and now they changed the world, you disregard all the movie legacy that helped establish general audiences appreciating what they experienced later on. Blade, X-Men, Raimi's Spider-Man broke down barriers which then later on the MCU could stand on such shoulders to carry the torch forward.

That's why Spider-Man: No Way Home is such a wonderful celebration of all that came before in some form. By bringing together all these characters like it did (STILL AVOIDING SPOILERS), it honors the legacy films that made Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios what they are.

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