Disney+'s SHE-HULK show (TBD) 5 5

[Kevin76]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:34 PM, Bosco685 said:

@TupennyConancan you please let me know what mutual funds I should lean into right now with the current market trends?

Buy cat food stocks  

[Kevin76]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:53 PM, jsilverjanet said:

the opening was a fantastic nod to the old tv series

 

Well of course they have to make a female version of everything 

[fastballspecial]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:30 PM, jsilverjanet said:

 

Intro was fun. About only part that was fun. The 4th wall was taken too far. 

Why ruin a couple of good episodes at the end with this? The only good part was the 
beginning. Even the surprise was really a lame intro. This show had promise
at some points. I still liked it better then Ms Marvel, but that show was not meant for me
and apparently neither was She hulk.

[Beige]

The last episode was an unfathomable mess.

I have no idea what they were thinking. It was OK up until then as well.

 

Baffling decision to go the way then went.

[MattTheDuck]

So some of the strengths of the MCU at its best have been the casting and the writing's ability to make the audience become emotionally invested in the characters and the stories.  This show just missed on all the things that have the MCU great when it's been great.  In my mind, this was intended as a kind of send-up of the MCU, particularly the final episode.  Even when Jennifer described what her story was about toward the end there, my reaction was basically, "it was?"  Maybe it's me, but I never had any idea where they were trying to go.

You don't want a series where the best entertainment value comes from secondary or supporting characters, but that describes this series to a T.  It's hard to say if Tatiana Maslany was miscast or the writing just didn't put her in her best light.  She's been pretty good in other roles, so I'm tempted to blame the writing.  But honestly, if she'd been killed by Abomination or ToddHulk I'm not sure I would have cared in the slightest.  Not sure why they chose the CGI style they did for She-Hulk herself, but it was a mistake.

 

[fmaz]

I really enjoyed this series, and I thought the finale (and the last two episodes in particular) were great.

I totally get that it’s not everyone’s thing…. The She-Hulk comics were NEVER everyone’s thing… they had people who loved them, they were critically acclaimed at times, but they didn’t sell.  And the broke the 4th wall to the extreme. 

In so many ways, this was the most comic-accurate thing Marvel has done.

What’s funny is, people who bash Marvel for doing the same old thing all the time? Well here’s a finale where the lead character agrees with them and in so doing creates a finale unlike anything Marvel has every done … and it will still be bashed.  But that’s ok, because Marvel got out ahead of things by making internet trolls the villains of the story to begin with. I mean, they really just went for it.

And like I said, I loved it. But I 100% get it if someone else does not. Hopefully Marvel is confident enough now to be at that point where they can now put out some content that they know might only appeal to a niche market. I’m guessing that won’t be a movie, but if it’s a Disney+ show, that’s still something.

I will add this — and only this — to try to gently convince those who didn’t like the finale or felt it was “too much”… if Deadpool had done this, people would have gone nuts for it.  Just sayin’. 

Hopefully I’ll get to Werewolf by Night this weekend. That, for example, does NOT seem like my thing… but I’ve heard good things so I’ll give it a go.  

But mostly just looking forward to Black Adam (pleasebegoodpleasebegoodpleasebegood) 

Happy weekend everyone!

 

 

[Bosco685]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:53 AM, fmaz said:

In so many ways, this was the most comic-accurate thing Marvel has done.

"If you say so!"

[Rodey]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:53 AM, fmaz said:

I will add this — and only this — to try to gently convince those who didn’t like the finale or felt it was “too much”… if Deadpool had done this, people would have gone nuts for it.  Just sayin’. 

My friend and I were talking exactly about this after watching the last She-Hulk episode. In some ways, Deadpool did do it when he travelled back to kill that messed up version of Deadpool at the end of the first Deadpool movie. That worked within the confines of the Deadpool story and character. Although on a smaller scale. For us, She-Hulk doing what she did in the last episode made us disengage from the story. We felt like it lost its steam. And it just didn't work.

[fmaz]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:41 AM, Bosco685 said:

"If you say so!"

Yeah, granted.  I was talking about She-Hulk and the show in general. Not that 10 seconds and … whatever/whomever THAT was supposed to be. 🙄

I can only assume they’ve decided against World War Hulk and in favor of “Skaared” by the Bell - a wacky high school comedy featuring the young Hulk and his friends. 😂. Oh crud… I might watch that. 

[fmaz]

On 10/14/2022 at 7:25 AM, Rodey said:

My friend and I were talking exactly about this after watching the last She-Hulk episode. In some ways, Deadpool did do it when he travelled back to kill that messed up version of Deadpool at the end of the first Deadpool movie. That worked within the confines of the Deadpool story and character. Although on a smaller scale. For us, She-Hulk doing what she did in the last episode made us disengage from the story. We felt like it lost its steam. And it just didn't work.

Totally understand that. And I thought it was fantastic. The only opinion I think is wrong is the one that says either one of us is “correct”. Because this show, and the finale in particular, is absolutely the kind of thing that wasn’t going to hit everyone the same way… it certainly was going to land differently with everyone.  It was very much like when Jen used to spend issues arguing with John Byrne about how lame her story was, or tracking down the artists to complain about the way she was drawn… her comics could be amazingly low-stakes, but they were creative and fun — to those who enjoyed them.

Those Deadpool things, while great, were post-credit scenes. They’d already given you the traditional (for Deadpool) story… so they could put that on without impacting it. This WAS the story.  It’s not fair, however, to judge Deadpool (not that I am) for not being as extreme …because movies have a lot more at stake than a TV show.  I do think that thanks to She-Hulk breaking this ground, Deadpool has license now to really “Deadpool”. Which is awesome.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by fmaz

[Rodey]

On 10/14/2022 at 7:40 AM, fmaz said:

She-Hulk breaking this ground, Deadpool has license now to really “Deadpool”.

I didn't even think about that. And that is awesome! 

[Bosco685]

On 10/14/2022 at 7:40 AM, fmaz said:

Totally understand that. And I thought it was fantastic. The only opinion I think is wrong is the one that says either one of us is “correct”. Because this show, and the finale in particular, is absolutely the kind of thing that wasn’t going to hit everyone the same way… it certainly was going to land differently with everyone.  It was very much like when Jen used to spend issues arguing with John Byrne about how lame her story was, or tracking down the artists to complain about the way she was drawn… her comics could be amazingly low-stakes, but they were creative and fun — to those who enjoyed them.

Those Deadpool things, while great, were post-credit scenes. They’d already given you the traditional (for Deadpool) story… so they could put that on without impacting it. This WAS the story.  It’s not fair, however, to judge Deadpool (not that I am) for not being as extreme …because movies have a lot more at stake than a TV show.  I do think that thanks to She-Hulk breaking this ground, Deadpool has license now to really “Deadpool”. Which is awesome.

 

But here's the thing. And this isn't meant to come across negative to you directly.

So you celebrated 'calling out the trolls'. Yet where was calling out the hardcore MCU trolls that attacked actors like Wyatt Russell just because it was assumed he was replacing Chris Evans. The ugly side of the MCU that gets a pass because "At least they appreciate Marvel!". The same folks that go hard in attacking and dismissing Sony Marvel (including the Tobey Maguire films), Fox Marvel and even going after DC films because "They are not my Marvel!"

It's selective celebration because at least the show noted a certain element of fandom. Not the dirtier side of MCU fandom. So we celebrate that as a win, which all it does is fuel that dirtier element to celebrate HAA HAA - MOCKED YOU TROLLS?

[fmaz]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:07 AM, Bosco685 said:

But here's the thing. And this isn't meant to come across negative to you directly.

So you celebrated 'calling out the trolls'. Yet where was calling out the hardcore MCU trolls that attacked actors like Wyatt Russell just because it was assumed he was replacing Chris Evans. The ugly side of the MCU that gets a pass because "At least they appreciate Marvel!". The same folks that go hard in attacking and dismissing Sony Marvel (including the Tobey Maguire films), Fox Marvel and even going after DC films because "They are not my Marvel!"

It's selective celebration because at least the show noted a certain element of fandom. Not the dirtier side of MCU fandom. So we celebrate that as a win, which all it does is fuel that dirtier element to celebrate HAA HAA - MOCKED YOU TROLLS?

Hmmm, that’s funny (by that I mean interesting)… I know the show went after the MCU’s misogynistic trolls (the very definition of low hanging fruit), but I felt like they WERE making a comment on trolls in general. It’s just because it was the ultimate female empowerment show (she’s a hulk! She’s a lawyer!) that they took the “easy way in” to make the point.

But the thing is I guess we’d have to hear it from the writers to find out if that was the actual intent. Because you and I, NOT being trolls, can only really guess if this feels like it would sting against us if we were trolls… and, let’s face it, actual trolls either a) just hate this show with a white hot intensity so they miss the message or b) have zero self-awareness so their reaction is ‘yeah, THOSE guys they’re talking about are the WORST!” 😂

But my assumption all-season long has been, they were making a comment about misogyny and trolls… not just misogynistic trolls.  Just the way it landed for me, though. And if it didn’t land for you that way, then even if it was the intent of the writers… they obviously didn’t do it well enough.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by fmaz

[BuscemasAvengers]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:41 AM, Bosco685 said:

"If you say so!"

Well, of course Bruce stopped off at an inter-stellar barber for a quick trim for the boy, just to spiffy him up for the presentation at the party ...

[Artboy99]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:41 AM, Bosco685 said:

"If you say so!"

once again, something potentially awesome is portrayed in a terrible manner.

Skaar to me is a mix of Conan the Barbarian and the savage Hulk. 

[Bosco685]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:22 AM, fmaz said:

Hmmm, that’s funny (by that I mean interesting)… I know the show went after the MCU’s misogynistic trolls (the very definition of low hanging fruit), but I felt like they WERE making a comment on trolls in general. It’s just because it was the ultimate female empowerment show (she’s a hulk! She’s a lawyer!) that they took the “easy way in” to make the point.

But the thing is I guess we’d have to hear it from the writers to find out if that was the actual intent. Because you and I, NOT being trolls, can only really guess if this feels like it would sting against us if we were trolls… and, let’s face it, actual trolls either a) just hate this show with a white hot intensity so they miss the message or b) have zero self-awareness so their reaction is ‘yeah, THOSE guys they’re talking about are the WORST!” 😂

But my assumption all-season long has been, they were making a comment about misogyny and trolls… not just misogynistic trolls.  Just the way it landed for me, though. And if it didn’t land for you that way, then even if it was the intent of the writers… they obviously didn’t do it well enough.

I appreciate the logical thoughts here. I do. 

But unfortunately with the lead writer interviews and the actual scenes conveyed in the show who they were joking about, it was not about trolling in general. It was about those perceived as being overly sensitive with female superheroes or traditional Caucasian male roles converted to minorities or females. Those details were very specifically represented throughout the show.

I wish the She-Hulk writers had made it more about overall toxic fandom. Because that is what ruins it for general audiences, and for fans wanting to enjoy any of these CBMs or CB shows. They don't want to be beat over the head with THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL or how someone interpreted events of source stories. The whole "not my [insert character name]" aggressive reactions turns into a negative pool of in-fights and heated disagreements rather than a celebration of comic books on the small screen, big screen or streaming screen.

[D84]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:26 AM, Bosco685 said:

I appreciate the logical thoughts here. I do. 

But unfortunately with the lead writer interviews and the actual scenes conveyed in the show who they were joking about, it was not about trolling in general. It was about those perceived as being overly sensitive with female superheroes or traditional Caucasian male roles converted to minorities or females. Those details were very specifically represented throughout the show.

I wish the She-Hulk writers had made it more about overall toxic fandom. Because that is what ruins it for general audiences, and for fans wanting to enjoy any of these CBMs or CB shows. They don't want to be beat over the head with THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL or how someone interpreted events of source stories. The whole "not my [insert character name]" aggressive reactions turns into a negative pool of in-fights and heated disagreements rather than a celebration of comic books on the small screen, big screen or streaming screen.

But you are using logic and reason.

That kinda talk ain't allowed here.

[fmaz]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:26 AM, Bosco685 said:

I appreciate the logical thoughts here. I do. 

But unfortunately with the lead writer interviews and the actual scenes conveyed in the show who they were joking about, it was not about trolling in general. It was about those perceived as being overly sensitive with female superheroes or traditional Caucasian male roles converted to minorities or females. Those details were very specifically represented throughout the show.

I wish the She-Hulk writers had made it more about overall toxic fandom. Because that is what ruins it for general audiences, and for fans wanting to enjoy any of these CBMs or CB shows. They don't want to be beat over the head with THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL or how someone interpreted events of source stories. The whole "not my [insert character name]" aggressive reactions turns into a negative pool of in-fights and heated disagreements rather than a celebration of comic books on the small screen, big screen or streaming screen.

If there’s interviews where the writers say that then that’s settled.  
That being said my only quibble with your point, and maybe it’s semantics and I’m misreading you, is that while I agree with you about overall toxic tolls being something that ruins things for everyone — but I do think that the subset of misogamy is prevalent and worthy of being a story point. So even just taking a whack at that portion of them does some good and also has at least a secondary effect of weeding out the overall number of toxicity.

What I’m (badly) attempting to say is: The storytelling rule that the most personal is the most universal comes into play here. To tell an anti-troll story you’d necessarily have to pick a lane and focus on it. And then you hope others can interpret it broadly.  Didn’t work for you so in that way it failed. Worked for me so between the two of us they’re batting .500 LOL 

 

[TupennyConan]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:11 AM, Artboy99 said:

Skaar to me is a mix of Conan the Barbarian and the savage Hulk. 

Too manly. 

[topofthetotem]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:25 AM, Rodey said:

For us, She-Hulk doing what she did in the last episode made us disengage from the story. We felt like it lost its steam. And it just didn't work.

I felt the same, it was a bit too meta for me. I overall enjoyed the show and would watch a second season but all the story lines that they used to build tension throughout the series were just tossed for this clever wink wink ending.

The show did touch on some important issues in society, particularly the toxic nature of social media,influencers, disparity of the views of women on the workplace and bro culture and guru types etc. 

I think it could have said something about those issues and in the end it misses the mark. It went out on a limb and did what Disney does best, it returned to that place of safety away from the precipice, it played it safe, it sanitized and whitewashed the world. I guess that’s to be expected, Disney is in it to make cash and not change the world and I would hazard to guess maybe the audience doesn’t want that either. 

Overall just makes a 7/10 because of the opening sequence of the last episode.