Disney+'s SHE-HULK show (TBD) 5 5

[fastballspecial]

I thought the episode was great from start to finish. I loved the chemistry with DD. 

The 4th wall parts were great. This episode hit on all cylinders and made me laugh 
for the first time in this show.

 

[Ed Hanes]

On 10/6/2022 at 4:14 PM, fastballspecial said:

I thought the episode was great from start to finish. I loved the chemistry with DD. 

The 4th wall parts were great. This episode hit on all cylinders and made me laugh 
for the first time in this show.

 

I was neutral at first with the show but it grew on me...found myself laughing more with each episode. This last episode worked really well. Now I am interested in Tatiana's previous work, especially Orphan Black 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Ed Hanes

[fastballspecial]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:26 PM, Ed Hanes said:

I was neutral at first with the show but it grew on me...found myself laughing more with each episode. This last episode worked really well. Now I am interested in Tatiana's previous work, especially Orphan Black 

My brother got me watching Orphan Black. I enjoyed it, but it got tiresome I thought I never finished it.

 

[Ed Hanes]

On 10/6/2022 at 4:43 PM, fastballspecial said:

My brother got me watching Orphan Black. I enjoyed it, but it got tiresome I thought I never finished it.

 

That's how I felt about Walking Dead..and it's not over yet

[skypinkblu]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:26 PM, Ed Hanes said:

I was neutral at first with the show but it grew on me...found myself laughing more with each episode. This last episode worked really well. Now I am interested in Tatiana's previous work, especially Orphan Black 

She was fantastic in that show...we were totally hooked, I hope you enjoy it!

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:01 PM, Bosco685 said:

On 10/6/2022 at 3:52 PM, Bosco685 said:

You have a young, aggressive and highly educated woman very sensitive about being taken serious and treated professionally and she is throwing herself at excessive amounts of men then?

She lost her mind with Bruce in Episode 1 over how hard she has had to work to be seen as someone to be respected. And then she is going to tarnish her image without care? The end of Episode 8 demonstrated how furious she is now that her image has been attacked where she went on a rampage.

So unless she is schizophrenic the two character paths are not lining up.

The writers attached to this show unfortunately are taking this character for an inconsistent ride. And that is not about comedy or deviating from the 'MCU formula'. It's just all over the place.

Ok, never mind your opinion about what constitutes respectable public behavior for a woman. I see your pivot towards criticizing the characterization of Jennifer Walters' character between Episode 1 and Episode 8 as being inconsistent and thus poor writing. So about that...

It's not inconsistent at all.

When Jen "lost her mind", as you put it, with Bruce in Episode 1 (and I assume you're talking about the last meditation scene), she lists being cat called in the street and being talked down to by men less experienced than her at work as the examples of how she puts up with stress on a daily basis. Those two examples are basic things that women in general put up with on a daily basis. Generally, women don't care for being cat called in the streets by disrespectful men. You might see it as being complementary to a woman for her good looks, but women don't like it. If you don't believe me, try asking a woman whether or not she likes it (if she's ever been cat called). And nobody likes being talked down to at work, whether you're a man or a woman. Unfortunately, many men talk down to women in the workplace because we still live in a society where men "know it all". These are the things that Jen was talking about. And these things take shape in the show through characters like Dennis, the associate lawyer at Jen's old firm or the three thugs/borderline rapists at the bar in Ep 1.

Now, Jen complaining about putting up with that is not inconsistent at all with Jen seeking out true love and sleeping with three of those men over 8 episodes. On those dates and in those situations, Jen is in control of her own situation and is a consenting adult. And in no way is that equatable to her putting up with cat calling from disrespectful men in the street as she's walking to her car after a long day at work. Also, when Jen breaks the 4th wall in Episode 8 and tells us that Matt Murdock is really doing it for her, she's not saying that to the public, it's a 4th wall break. She's confessing her inner thoughts to the viewing audience. The characters in the show never see or hear her 4th wall breaks. So even though she's going ga-ga for DD, as a character in the setting of her fictional world, she is being completely respectful about it. SPOILER ALERT And when she gets mad at the unauthorized sex tape at the end of Ep 8, it's because Josh secretly taped their PRIVATE lovemaking and put it on the internet for all to see. Her anger is completely understandable there.

And in a What If? scenario, even if it was revealed that Jen was not only a high priced lawyer but also a high priced escort, it's still not inconsistent for a high priced escort to ask for respect from her fellow humans at the start of the show and then also get mad when a private sex tape of her is revealed to the public. Wanting respect is a general human trait whether we deserve it or not. 

So, to sum up, the characterization of Jen Walters between Episode 1 and Episode 8 is not inconsistent at all.

I rest my case.

[Lpgk]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Ok, never mind your opinion about what constitutes respectable public behavior for a woman. I see your pivot towards criticizing the characterization of Jennifer Walters' character between Episode 1 and Episode 8 as being inconsistent and thus poor writing. So about that...

It's not inconsistent at all.

When Jen "lost her mind", as you put it, with Bruce in Episode 1 (and I assume you're talking about the last meditation scene), she lists being cat called in the street and being talked down to by men less experienced than her at work as the examples of how she puts up with stress on a daily basis. Those two examples are basic things that women in general put up with on a daily basis. Generally, women don't care for being cat called in the streets by disrespectful men. You might see it as being complementary to a woman for her good looks, but women don't like it. If you don't believe me, try asking a woman whether or not she likes it (if she's ever been cat called). And nobody likes being talked down to at work, whether you're a man or a woman. Unfortunately, many men talk down to women in the workplace because we still live in a society where men "know it all". These are the things that Jen was talking about. And these things take shape in the show through characters like Dennis, the associate lawyer at Jen's old firm or the three thugs/borderline rapists at the bar in Ep 1.

Now, Jen complaining about putting up with that is not inconsistent at all with Jen seeking out true love and sleeping with three of those men over 8 episodes. On those dates and in those situations, Jen is in control of her own situation and is a consenting adult. And in no way is that equatable to her putting up with cat calling from disrespectful men in the street as she's walking to her car after a long day at work. Also, when Jen breaks the 4th wall in Episode 8 and tells us that Matt Murdock is really doing it for her, she's not saying that to the public, it's a 4th wall break. She's confessing her inner thoughts to the viewing audience. The characters in the show never see or hear her 4th wall breaks. So even though she's going ga-ga for DD, as a character in the setting of her fictional world, she is being completely respectful about it. SPOILER ALERT And when she gets mad at the unauthorized sex tape at the end of Ep 8, it's because Josh secretly taped their PRIVATE lovemaking and put it on the internet for all to see. Her anger is completely understandable there.

And in a What If? scenario, even if it was revealed that Jen was not only a high priced lawyer but also a high priced escort, it's still not inconsistent for a high priced escort to ask for respect from her fellow humans at the start of the show and then also get mad when a private sex tape of her is revealed to the public. Wanting respect is a general human trait whether we deserve it or not. 

So, to sum up, the characterization of Jen Walters between Episode 1 and Episode 8 is not inconsistent at all.

I rest my case.

Very well said. And nice analysis of the growth of this character. If anything, at least she's not one dimensional. 

Just out of curiosity, I'm guessing you really liked Episode 8; what did you feel at the start of the series and as it went along?

I've always liked the show and they were some lackluster episodes, but Episode 8 was great. To me, it's been getting better as it went along, and I hope they stick the landing. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:16 PM, Lpgk said:

Very well said. And nice analysis of the growth of this character. If anything, at least she's not one dimensional. 

Just out of curiosity, I'm guessing you really liked Episode 8; what did you feel at the start of the series and as it went along?

I've always liked the show and they were some lackluster episodes, but Episode 8 was great. To me, it's been getting better as it went along, and I hope they stick the landing. 

I wasn't sure what to expect with Episode 1, but I loved it (though being a hardcore MCU fan I kinda love everything in Phase Four except Black Widow).

I thought Tatiana Maslaney as Jen Walters was immediately charming in a normal person kind of way. As she grappled with becoming a Hulk in the episode, I immediately picked up on the show's theme of possessing great power but not wanting the great responsibility at all. And that theme has been pretty consistent throughout the series. It was pretty great finally seeing Smart Hulk in real action (he did barely anything action-wise in Endgame).

One thing I really liked in Episode 8 was the ah-ha moment with Matt when, as someone who is an experienced superhero but also a lawyer, he told her that one can be both a power for good as a lawyer and as a superhero. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The series is basically a long form power-up journey for Jen becoming a bonafide superhero, so I've appreciated those brief ah-ha moments throughout the series that have contributed to her growth as a Hulk. And I do love that little monkey wrench thrown in at the end of Ep 8 where our hero may have taken a step back on that journey, and maybe she’s not as in control of this thing as she thought she’d be. Rookie mistake?

This is a really good show. 10 years ago, I'd have never thought they could successfully pull off a live action She-Hulk. They did.

Edited October 7, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[Sauce Dog]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Ok, never mind your opinion about what constitutes respectable public behavior for a woman. I see your pivot towards criticizing the characterization of Jennifer Walters' character between Episode 1 and Episode 8 as being inconsistent and thus poor writing. So about that...

It's not inconsistent at all.

When Jen "lost her mind", as you put it, with Bruce in Episode 1 (and I assume you're talking about the last meditation scene), she lists being cat called in the street and being talked down to by men less experienced than her at work as the examples of how she puts up with stress on a daily basis. Those two examples are basic things that women in general put up with on a daily basis. Generally, women don't care for being cat called in the streets by disrespectful men. You might see it as being complementary to a woman for her good looks, but women don't like it. If you don't believe me, try asking a woman whether or not she likes it (if she's ever been cat called). And nobody likes being talked down to at work, whether you're a man or a woman. Unfortunately, many men talk down to women in the workplace because we still live in a society where men "know it all". These are the things that Jen was talking about. And these things take shape in the show through characters like Dennis, the associate lawyer at Jen's old firm or the three thugs/borderline rapists at the bar in Ep 1.

Now, Jen complaining about putting up with that is not inconsistent at all with Jen seeking out true love and sleeping with three of those men over 8 episodes. On those dates and in those situations, Jen is in control of her own situation and is a consenting adult. And in no way is that equatable to her putting up with cat calling from disrespectful men in the street as she's walking to her car after a long day at work. Also, when Jen breaks the 4th wall in Episode 8 and tells us that Matt Murdock is really doing it for her, she's not saying that to the public, it's a 4th wall break. She's confessing her inner thoughts to the viewing audience. The characters in the show never see or hear her 4th wall breaks. So even though she's going ga-ga for DD, as a character in the setting of her fictional world, she is being completely respectful about it. SPOILER ALERT And when she gets mad at the unauthorized sex tape at the end of Ep 8, it's because Josh secretly taped their PRIVATE lovemaking and put it on the internet for all to see. Her anger is completely understandable there.

And in a What If? scenario, even if it was revealed that Jen was not only a high priced lawyer but also a high priced escort, it's still not inconsistent for a high priced escort to ask for respect from her fellow humans at the start of the show and then also get mad when a private sex tape of her is revealed to the public. Wanting respect is a general human trait whether we deserve it or not. 

So, to sum up, the characterization of Jen Walters between Episode 1 and Episode 8 is not inconsistent at all.

I rest my case.

...but ...but isn't all of this is moot because Jen is SeXuaLLy ExCeSSivE!??!   

[@therealsilvermane]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:46 PM, Sauce Dog said:

...but ...but isn't all of this is moot because Jen is SeXuaLLy ExCeSSivE!??!   

I mean, Jen goes on several dates with Josh before she even sleeps with him.

Judgementally excessive?

[PovertyRow]

Much of this has a truly bizarre and telling take. To paraphrase cause the quote function sucketh here:

"Men don't want a garden tool to have their children." I guess men just want to have relations with a garden tool. How tooled up is that? Men are the arbiter on what is and is not? Well historically that has been so for ages and look at the state of our world now.

"The show was written by feminist writers." What the hell is a.feminist writer? Stepford Wives with a shared programmed perspective? That has to be one of the most revealingly uninformed statements. And how about the misogynistic writers? I guess they are either ok or non existent because they are men.

All the blather about a woman having frequent relations with various men. These posts literally make me feel like I am back in ancient times where a garden tool could be stoned to death.

I am having a difficult time even recognizing some boardies here. And for other boardies my respect has dramatically increased. Not that my respect really means anything.

But these have been among the most blatantly revealing posts where the male dominated society continues to be taken not only for granted but for a standard that must be adhered to. It literally makes me feel slightly ill to be a member of a group with a common interest such as comic books and read how unenlightened and even hateful many are.

Edited October 7, 2022 by PovertyRow

[PovertyRow]

Just FTR  I enjoyed Ep 8. Loved the way Matt was portrayed and the dynamic with Jen/She-Hulk. 

Leapfrog was a bit weak as he was treated similarly to Donnie Blaze in Ep 4.

Have to take a wait-see on the whole Intelligensia arc. It tends to bore me and is being used in pretty obvious ways. Have to wonder if  Hulk V2#15 and #16 will feel an impact. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by PovertyRow

[topofthetotem]

Great episode! 

[TupennyConan]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:56 AM, PovertyRow said:

But these have been among the most blatantly revealing posts 

But I wrapped my n00dz [see page 1] in spoiler tags  

[TupennyConan]

No Madisynn, again. Yet in 3 minutes of screentime, she changed the world.

#madwongers

Jen threw a car at DD. 

DD has always been sexually excessive. Jen's just playing catsup.

Catsup or Ketchup & mustard.

The Intelligentsia seem oddly familiar. 

The show was both stupid & fun. I'll watch S2, if only so I know what all this Boardie sex talk's about.

[Bosco685]

Okay. I'll play. This is just more of your reaction and wall of words when you rush to 'defend' the rights of women everywhere when someone says something even close to the opposite of MCU productions being amazing.

And now because I posted I finally enjoyed an episode of She-Hulk but have concerns how the main female character is portrayed I am:

1. Supporting She-Hulk being harassed because she was asking for it due to her behavior
2. I uphold dated sexual expectations
3. Implied that I supported men can use women but women can't use men
4. I cannot craft a legible statement nor outline a credible counterpoint

Clearly this must be another MCU thread where folks are so protective of THEIR MARVEL anyone that says something different must be group-attacked and run off. Healthy thinking.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Ok, never mind your opinion about what constitutes respectable public behavior for a woman. I see your pivot towards criticizing the characterization of Jennifer Walters' character between Episode 1 and Episode 8 as being inconsistent and thus poor writing. So about that...

It's not inconsistent at all.

 

It clearly is inconsistent. It conveys throughout how all men are about is using the degrading women. Yet then portrays a woman demanding and frustrated she is not seen as respectable and a credible professional yet then put her in multiple scenarios to detract from her decisions and character. But I am definitely not going back to those 7 episodes to prove my case. It is clear even here fellow comic book fans are frustrated with Phase IV and parts of this show. It has nothing to do with a misogynistic mindset nor sexism.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

When Jen "lost her mind", as you put it, with Bruce in Episode 1 (and I assume you're talking about the last meditation scene), she lists being cat called in the street and being talked down to by men less experienced than her at work as the examples of how she puts up with stress on a daily basis. Those two examples are basic things that women in general put up with on a daily basis. Generally, women don't care for being cat called in the streets by disrespectful men. You might see it as being complementary to a woman for her good looks, but women don't like it. If you don't believe me, try asking a woman whether or not she likes it (if she's ever been cat called).

Another clear example of someone in this thread attempting to portray another board member as a sexist. Nowhere in this thread did I even convey women are objects to be sexualized. Yet here it is where it is assumed that is my thinking by implying I am okay with this concept. That is how troublesome this fanatical support of anything MCU can be when a few try to characterize fellow board members like this to drive them down just to make a point only they get it and anyone else that doesn't are THOSE BAD PEOPLE. The same debate approach you used with Capra because he is hardcore against the portrayal of Captain Marvel.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

And nobody likes being talked down to at work, whether you're a man or a woman. Unfortunately, many men talk down to women in the workplace because we still live in a society where men "know it all". These are the things that Jen was talking about. And these things take shape in the show through characters like Dennis, the associate lawyer at Jen's old firm or the three thugs/borderline rapists at the bar in Ep 1.

I can see how you gravitate toward the stereotype men must be of the mindset shown here even nowadays in general and you are their cheerleader and official spokesperson. Yet the show takes a hard swipe at men in general, yet in its own writing it shows how there are many men in support of women being treated as equal. Even with Episode 7 when Jen visits Emil Blonsky at his retreat, the all-male residents end up circling around her to provide support and convince her that she should have more self-respect. But that is the rarity of a theme on this show with men actively and without an underlining motivation being there to help fellow female human being getting through life. So attempting to make it out FINALLY a show is calling out men this hardcore is reasonable is blurring the lines of reality.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Now, Jen complaining about putting up with that is not inconsistent at all with Jen seeking out true love and sleeping with three of those men over 8 episodes. On those dates and in those situations, Jen is in control of her own situation and is a consenting adult. And in no way is that equatable to her putting up with cat calling from disrespectful men in the street as she's walking to her car after a long day at work.

 

Again, more hyperbole to make it out like anyone not satisfied with this show's portrayal of Jennifer Walters/She-Hulk then they must be in support of objectifying women.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Also, when Jen breaks the 4th wall in Episode 8 and tells us that Matt Murdock is really doing it for her, she's not saying that to the public, it's a 4th wall break. She's confessing her inner thoughts to the viewing audience. The characters in the show never see or hear her 4th wall breaks. So even though she's going ga-ga for DD, as a character in the setting of her fictional world, she is being completely respectful about it.

So talking to the audience so they are clear on her inner thoughts of wanting a guy sexually is being respectful because she doesn't share it with her fellow characters directly? Since James Bond was used before as a comparison (how? does that matter in a 'I'm going to prove your mind is warped' debate?). So if he all of a sudden steps back from a scene he is in and turns to the audience with "I'm going to ring her bells tonight - hubba hubba" that would be respectful because he isn't it saying to the character in question. It's just between us in the audience and Bond. Got it!

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

SPOILER ALERT And when she gets mad at the unauthorized sex tape at the end of Ep 8, it's because Josh secretly taped their PRIVATE lovemaking and put it on the internet for all to see. Her anger is completely understandable there.

 

Ahhh. But you see. Even this it was a horrific situation meant to destroy her character, it was also done knowing it could force her into a rage reaction fitting the old stereotype women are just a ball of emotions and the men must be there to save the little ladies from themselves. So the Intelligencia - most probably being of that old-school and warped mindset - got the reaction they craved in front of Jen's fellow professionals and the Media.

That's why her friends around her were begging not do what she was about to do (and did). So I guess you were okay with her being put into that situation.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

And in a What If? scenario, even if it was revealed that Jen was not only a high priced lawyer but also a high priced escort, it's still not inconsistent for a high priced escort to ask for respect from her fellow humans at the start of the show and then also get mad when a private sex tape of her is revealed to the public. Wanting respect is a general human trait whether we deserve it or not. 

 

More hyperbole so as to convey you are the champion female rights. Nobody here even conveyed support for that video and its intent to discredit a professional woman (or any woman for that matter). But you'll insert it in so as to make this about misogyny and sexism again.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

So, to sum up, the characterization of Jen Walters between Episode 1 and Episode 8 is not inconsistent at all.

I rest my case.

Your case you just rested (nice try as you attempt to associate yourself with She-Hulk's legal side) has many holes and obvious flaws noted above. Including your attempt to convey anyone not supporting this show must be against female comic book characters. It's a rinse-and-repeat of the same themes used in Captain Marvel's move defense. Just some scenarios and names changed.

On 10/7/2022 at 1:56 AM, PovertyRow said:

I am having a difficult time even recognizing some boardies here. And for other boardies my respect has dramatically increased. Not that my respect really means anything.

Uh-huh.

On 10/6/2022 at 9:16 PM, Lpgk said:

Very well said

Or "Yeah I like the show too - get 'em!"

Sorry folks. I love being on here and chatting comic book shows and movies. But some of you then want to make it about the obvious - either people support what you support or they are not of this forum. But then want to also tell me how I am destroying this portion of the boards. You know - the one I have kept fed with a steady stream of MCU, DC, Fox Marvel, Sony Marvel and many other studios without trying to allow bias to cloud my initial support before their release.

I definitely don't recognize some of you nowadays.

[MetalPSI]

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:19 PM, Bosco685 said:

As far as this conveying normal practices with women of the times - I have to disagree. I work at a very large company that is led by many high-powered women and most take their image very seriously. And that doesn't mean they are uptight and don't have a fun time. But they are not walking around work proclaiming, "Wow - that guy is really doing it for me!" That's moronic in its messaging that this woman concerned with her image throws that line out so frequently.

I'll add this: My company just hired a new woman in management. 2 of the men who now work 'below her' took the time to discuss her appearances behind her back. 1 of these guys is so "well-respected" that most of the office cannot wait for his forced retirement.

Attitudes like that don't garner respect, and it's not a matter of man or woman.

[Bosco685]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:59 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'll add this: My company just hired a new woman in management. 2 of the men who now work 'below her' took the time to discuss her appearances behind her back. 1 of these guys is so "well-respected" that most of the office cannot wait for his forced retirement.

Attitudes like that don't garner respect, and it's not a matter of man or woman.

Are you kidding? Don't you know I am all for objectifying women and if they get out of line dressing in an attractive way and catcalls happen then "They were asking for it"?

[TupennyConan]

Jen didn't want to be a paragon. She didn't want to be a saintly hero like Cap. She's an average gal, not much of a lawyer, out looking for love. She's lonely. 

This show was about Jen's dull dating life & how She-Hulk changes it, for better or worse.

This show was about a woman dating, not beat em ups. With the word slut at the end of E8, it set-up those fellas for critique who prefer the reverse. It set-up this thread. That was pretty clever.

Action isn't good & healthy in & of itself. Action isn't good, per se.

Action means both sex or sex to excess & beat em ups - violence.

How many nameless, faceless folks died from all the violence in the MCU? Folks love Winter Soldier. Go back & watch it with this question in mind. Then ask yourself: might the world have been a bit better if Cap had a gf? Or if threads like this rejected the excess action?