The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Kevin.J]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:51 AM, Malacoda said:

my list includes a column which explains the reason why I think each piece of the puzzle fits where it fits, but this of course means that the list is crawling with spoilers

I think I would like to see this part as well, spoilers wouldn't stop me.

*I remember the Blade films being quite good, admittedly it has been a while since I watched them, I think Wesley Snipes was a perfect choice.

I have started to watch Daredevil, about 6 episodes in, it's better than I thought it would be

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/28/2022 at 1:51 AM, Yorick said:

It's okay.  They're just cousins. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:23 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Way back somewhere in the thread, I think I posted the June 1979 cover dated Superman Family #195 (May/June indicia) as being the latest DC that I could find with a T&P price stamp. I've done the earliest, you see, so it makes sense to get back to the latest. Here are three examples, priced 35p (one reduced to 20p):

We have a tie....

Nice placement 

And this is hardly Unexpected...

[Get Marwood & I]

....and a new leader, with the faintest of unbranded 35p cover stamps, the July 1979 cover dated World's Latest!

Finest, sorry 

 

[Malacoda]

On 9/28/2022 at 11:55 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Finest, sorry 

Faintest?

[Malacoda]

On 9/28/2022 at 2:28 AM, Kevin.J said:

*I remember the Blade films being quite good, admittedly it has been a while since I watched them, I think Wesley Snipes was a perfect choice.

The actual films are good enough, but the effects are 100% CGI which I remember looking bad at the time but they look like cartoons now. 

[Malacoda]

On 9/28/2022 at 2:28 AM, Kevin.J said:

I have started to watch Daredevil, about 6 episodes in, it's better than I thought it would be

Yes, stick with it (pun intended). In the comics they never really made the connection between his Dad being fundamentally a streetfighter and him taking after that, but I got it from the show. Once you get to that bone-crunching, tooth-spitting fight in the corridor, you realise you're not watching Adam West nor the cinematic MCU but something that is its own beast.   

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:30 PM, Malacoda said:

Faintest?

How did I miss that 

[OtherEric]

On 9/28/2022 at 5:04 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

How did I miss that 

I haven't the finest faintest idea...

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/28/2022 at 5:21 PM, OtherEric said:

I haven't the finest faintest idea...

Well ask the other Eric then. 

[Get Marwood & I]

This thread's gone right down hill 

[Malacoda]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:23 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Additionally, there are issues for which I have yet to find a stamped copy in three of the five title runs and some titles appear to end their stamped copies earlier than others (Action seems to cease with the September 1978 issue whereas Batman and Flash carry on to April 1979. Of course, we don't know when the stamped copies came across and in what date order. 

The September 1978 cover date may be a telling moment. I think that that is the moment when WH Allen killed off Thorpe and Porter for good and the very last vestige of it faded from the world. You might find that the stamps stop saying T&P at that point, but I think no one gave a toss by that point and I'd imagine the stamps disappear chaotically over a period of time. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/28/2022 at 6:16 PM, Malacoda said:

The September 1978 cover date may be a telling moment. I think that that is the moment when WH Allen killed off Thorpe and Porter for good and the very last vestige of it faded from the world. You might find that the stamps stop saying T&P at that point, but I think no one gave a toss by that point and I'd imagine the stamps disappear chaotically over a period of time. 

It does seem quite chaotic, yes. I'm not sure I'll go any further with it if I'm honest. 

[OtherEric]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:24 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

It does seem quite chaotic, yes. I'm not sure I'll go any further with it if I'm honest. 

Surely we need a definitive answer on when the stamps were stamped out! (Stamps feet for emphasis.)

Sorry, I'm clearly in a silly mood today for some reason...

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/28/2022 at 6:26 PM, OtherEric said:

Surely we need a definitive answer on when the stamps were stamped out! (Stamps feet for emphasis.)

Sorry, I'm clearly in a silly mood today for some reason...

Why limit it to today? 

[OtherEric]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:27 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Why limit it to today? 

I'm clearly in an even more silly than usual mood today, then...

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/28/2022 at 6:30 PM, OtherEric said:

I'm clearly in an even more silly than usual mood today, then...

Keep it up Eric, I like silly.

As for the stamps, I added some more titles today and they all stop at different times. Early days, but they do seem to drift away randomly, rather than all stop at the same time as you might be forgiven for thinking would be the case. It's doing me mince pies in though, so I'll revisit it another time I think. 

[Malacoda]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:23 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

• Issue #296 does not exist as a UKPV, but has a 12p T&P branded price stamped cents copy in circulation
• Issue #297 is the first second wave UKPV, priced at 12p, and it also has 12p T&P price stamped cents copies in circulation (unbranded, this time)
• Issue #300 does not exist as a UKPV, being an oversize issue, but a T&P stamped cents copy does exist, priced at an increased 25p to reflects the US difference
• Issues 303-305 exists as 15p stamped copies, but not as UKPVs
• Issue #310 is the latest issue I can find so far for Batman with a T&P stamp

And after this they go solely PV until they go dual in cd Oct 81?  (So in Batman terms, PV from 311 to 339 and then dual priced from 340). Correct?

I'm always focussed on Marvel, but quite what the Hell happened to DC distribution in the UK after Warner's shut down the UK arm of Warner Communication must be a story worth investigating.  I'm sure we'll get round to it. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:57 PM, Malacoda said:

And after this they go solely PV until they go dual in cd Oct 81?  Correct?

It certainly looks like it.

On 9/28/2022 at 10:57 PM, Malacoda said:

I'm always focussed on Marvel, but quite what the Hell happened to DC distribution in the UK after Warner's shut down the UK arm of Warner Communication must be a story worth investigating.  I'm sure we'll get round to it. 

We will. It's a little odd that the stamped copies wound down well before the printed UKPVs ended, given that they started way back with 1959 cover dates and never really went away for twenty years.

[Malacoda]

On 9/29/2022 at 7:10 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

We will. It's a little odd that the stamped copies wound down well before the printed UKPVs ended, given that they started way back with 1959 cover dates and never really went away for twenty years.

I don't think it is. I think that when Warner Communications (i.e. T&P, Gilbertons, Williams, Top Sellers etc) shut down, the practice of recycling DC returns ended (keep in mind that that started with pull from Fred rather than push from DC).  The end of T&P meant that there was no one to do the stamping of the new comics either, which is why it went over to PV's (incrementally).  The timing is not a coincidence - it's more that the PV's started to replace the stamping than that the stamps wound down before the PV's finished.  With Marvel and DC both now on PV's, the proliferation of distribution through comic shops and direct exports to both Canada and the UK, it's clearly not a coincidence that it then moves to dual pricing.  Actually, I think that DC sales in the UK were so relatively low that the ball-ache wasn't worth the candle, so they led the way with dual pricing.  Marvel had always done PV's and had much better sales (and from 1972 had been more focussed on the UK a reprint market and actually restricted sales of their US imports) so I suspect they would never have come up with the idea of dual pricing on their own.  As soon as DC did it, it was...

 

if you look at the gap between DC starting and Marvel bandwaggoning, it's pretty much the usual minimum 3 month gap. 

I imagine the conversation at DC went: 

"Why do the limeys suddenly want us to put their money on the comics?"

"Because we used to send them all our leftovers, so they had to re-stamp them. But the UK distribution subsidiary is gone now, and the new distributor only wants new issues"

"I get that, but why do we pay for a whole second print run when we could just print the limey pennies next to the proper price?"

"Good point"

What's interesting is the foothold.  For years. Marvel and DC distributed through T&P in the UK and IND in the States.  Because IND had a stranglehold on Marvel and latterly owned T&P, DC were always in a dominant position over Marvel (although I'm sure sales figures told a different story). When Marvel moved to World, it changed everything.  Not just because they were arriving from 2 different distributors, but because the 2 companies were structured completely differently. DC then went to Moore Harness, where there was no stamping, so they finally had to find a solution.  At this point, both Marvel and DC are with high street national distributors, but now Marvel, who are with Comag, are finally in the dominant position.  And neither company has a foothold in the UK, they just have circulation deals with UK distributors. 

Anyway, my point is that the thing you're highlighting as odd does indeed seem odd if you just look at the comics, but if you look at what was going on with the changeover of distributors and the winding down of T&P era practices, it all makes perfect sense. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Malacoda