Nominating RICK STARR 10 10

[thewritestuff]

Good day, everyone. I am nominating RICK STARR (John T.) to the Probation List due to his outright failure to honor a sale after I claimed a comic book in his recent sales thread on October 11, 2020. The comic was claimed with a "Take" for the full asking price a few hours after John posted the thread, with no haggling or prior communication involved. Although I met all of the terms of the sale, and although I mailed him a payment of $1,900, John has since informed me that he has no intention of selling me the book (see his messages below, which I highlighted for emphasis). In fact, although I offered multiple times to send a replacement check or pay via Paypal, John claims he never even received my check. John strung me along for roughly 2 full weeks before informing me of his decision, and at no time prior to that did he even hint at his reluctance to let the book go.

*I have sent a message informing the seller of this nomination, and of his three-day window of response.

As a side note, a few boardies have wisely pointed out that $1,900 is a lot of money for a small time collector like me, and yes, I needed to budget for that. Having that money "tied up" for two weeks is no picnic, especially when the end result is not receiving a great new comic to complete a small run in my collection, but...well...this. To add salt to the wound, I watched several other wonderful books go by in recent sales threads/auctions, but did not have the funds to make a purchase due to my money being tied up with this seller. I successfully completed a transaction with this same seller several months back after he approached me in private to offer me a book that he saw on my "wanted to buy" list. RICK STARR is not some young kid new to the hobby/oblivious of the rules. As he points out in his message below, he's been a dealer since 1977! It is amazing to me that an experienced seller sees nothing wrong with reneging on what was otherwise a legitimate transaction.

 

John/RICK STARR'S message to me on October 26:

Well, I am sorry still no check in today's mail. Actually, it is just as well for me because I have decided to keep the book. I know you aren't going to like it and, no I do not have another offer from another buyer. just looking at this great cover and asking myself, why did I decide to sell it in the first place. My sales thread was very successful and I do not need the money. So, don't think ill of me, I am a collector not a dealer looking for more money. If by some chance your check does arrive, I will notify you and let me know what to do with it

 

John/RICK STARR'S message to me on October 27 in response to my declaration of nominating him for probation:

Wow! As I said to you, I am keeping the book for myself. I have collected, traded and sold books since 1977. I have an EXCELLENT reputation with many other collectors and dealers. Yes, [name of other buyer omitted] bought some books from me and what he decides what to do with them is his business. SO, there is NOTHING fishy going on, I recent that! It's MY BOOK, if I chose to keep it, its my prerogative. I have a 1256 positive (100%) feedback on Ebay. I don't what else to say. I DO NOT have your check!!! Sorry, you are upset. It's just a comic book

Edited October 28, 2020 by thewritestuff

[thehumantorch]

I don't think a HOS nomination is reasonable.  That's essentially for those who are incorrigible and commit many offenses or commit very serious offenses. 

@RICK STARR  It would also be nice if he joined the discussion

[thewritestuff]

6 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

I don't think a HOS nomination is reasonable.  That's essentially for those who are incorrigible and commit many offenses or commit very serious offenses. 

@RICK STARR  It would also be nice if he joined the discussion

Thanks for the reply. I changed the nomination to probation only.

[Gotham Kid]

2 hours ago, thewritestuff said:

I recent that! It's MY BOOK

recent: having happened, begun, or been done not long ago

resent: bitterness or indignation at something

Comic book enthusiasts should be endowed with excellent grammatical skills, unfortunately not always.

As a side note, RICK STARR is a long time board member so I am actually surprised at this episode/nomination.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Gotham Kid

[KCOComics]

1 hour ago, Gotham Kid said:

recent: having happened, begun, or been done not long ago

resent: bitterness or indignation at something

Comic book enthusiasts should be endowed with excellent grammatical skills, unfortunately not always.

As a side note, RICK STARR is a long time board member so I am actually surprised at this episode/nomination.

I agree on Rick. I don't know him, I've never bought from him, but I've seen his posts and sales thread. He seems to have a good reputation and I'm hopeful this one can get resolved. 

As for grammatical skills I totally disagree! My grammar stinks! 

[mattn792]

2 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

 As for gremmatical skills I totally disagree! My grammer stinks! 

FTFY.

Back to the task at hand, hopefully things get sorted out amicably.  RICK STARR's resume would indicate that he should know better than to pull a low rent move like this.

[Hollywood1892]

Dang 

[G-G © ® ™]

Absolutely no dog in the fight but I don't think a nomination on this is gonna fly.

First off I believe you have to wait a full month from POS? But I could be wrong about this.

Also if you sent a 'check', your money was not tied up technically, because if he didn't receive it, he didn't cash it, so there's that. Obviously if you were assuming it was going to be cashed, then I suppose in your mind the money was indeed spoken for.

There's also the problem that Sellers or indeed Buyers sometimes change their minds, and although it may be very poor form, no-one is actually deprived of any money....so there's that.

Lastly to put it into context for you;

I myself bought a book off a seller a few years back, and this seller actually (after agreeing a deal via pm) then sold the book to someone else for more money.

There was a lot of huffing and puffing and apologies and hand wringing, and the full concensus of opinion was that the seller did a d*ck move, but I left it at that.

What I took away from the matter was that here was someone I will never do business with again under any circumstances, but I was not out of pocket, not even seriously inconvenienced, just downright disappointed.

Did I think it was worthy of a nomination? No. You can't force someone to have principles or ethics or behave like a gentleman.

Put it down to experience, move along...there'll be another great book along in a minute.   

[RaleighComicBookCollector]

@thewritestuff what book and grade?

[Ryan.]

3 hours ago, thehumantorch said:

 

@RICK STARR  It would also be nice if he joined the discussion

Agree. 

[thewritestuff]

14 minutes ago, G G ® said:

Absolutely no dog in the fight but I don't think a nomination on this is gonna fly.

First off I believe you have to wait a full month from POS? But I could be wrong about this.

Also if you sent a 'check', your money was not tied up technically, because if he didn't receive it, he didn't cash it, so there's that. Obviously if you were assuming it was going to be cashed, then I suppose in your mind the money was indeed spoken for.

There's also the problem that Sellers or indeed Buyers sometimes change their minds, and although it may be very poor form, no-one is actually deprived of any money....so there's that.

Lastly to put it into context for you;

I myself bought a book off a seller a few years back, and this seller actually (after agreeing a deal via pm) then sold the book to someone else for more money.

There was a lot of huffing and puffing and apologies and hand wringing, and the full concensus of opinion was that the seller did a d*ck move, but I left it at that.

What I took away from the matter was that here was someone I will never do business with again under any circumstances, but I was not out of pocket, not even seriously inconvenienced, just downright disappointed.

Did I think it was worthy of a nomination? No. You can't force someone to have principles or ethics or behave like a gentleman.

Put it down to experience, move along...there'll be another great book along in a minute.   

A seller refusing to follow through with an agreed upon sale (especially after acknowledging the purchase, providing his address, and directing the buyer to mail a check) completely undermines the integrity of the For Sale threads on these boards.
 

If sellers and buyers can refuse to follow through with any transaction “just because”, then what’s the point in having a place here for buying and selling?

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by thewritestuff

[Ryan.]

12 minutes ago, G G ® said:

 

Also if you sent a 'check', your money was not tied up technically, because if he didn't receive it, he didn't cash it, so there's that. Obviously if you were assuming it was going to be cashed, then I suppose in your mind the money was indeed spoken for.

There's also the problem that Sellers or indeed Buyers sometimes change their minds, and although it may be very poor form, no-one is actually deprived of any money....so there's that.

Seems like part of the problem here is that it wasn't communicated to the buyer that the seller changed his mind until two weeks after the deal was made. 

[comicdonna]

2 minutes ago, thewritestuff said:

A seller refusing to follow through with an agreed upon sale (especially after acknowledging the purchase, providing his address, and directing the buyer to mail a check) completely undermines the integrity of the For Sale threads on these boards.
 

If sellers and buyers can refuse to follow through with any transaction “just because”, then what’s the point in having a place here for buying and selling?

 

I agree.  Many times I have seen people say when a seller refuses to sell to you, you really aren't out anything.  On the flip side, when a buyer refuses to pay, they get put on the probation list.  It shouldn't matter weather the person  "wronged" is a buyer or seller.  If a deal is made, money and book should both exchange hands, and if either refuses, they should be held accountable.  

[G-G © ® ™]

3 minutes ago, thewritestuff said:

A seller refusing to follow through with an agreed upon sale (especially after acknowledging the purchase, providing his address, and directing the buyer to mail a check) completely undermines the integrity of the For Sale threads on these boards.
 

If sellers and buyers can refuse to follow through with any transaction “just because”, then what’s the point in having a place here for buying and selling?

 

 

2 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

Seems like part of the problem here is that it wasn't communicated to the buyer that the seller changed his mind until two weeks after the deal was made. 

I'm not saying I disagree with either of you, just pointing out that these things do happen, and you cannot force someone to sell you their book even if a deal was agreed.

To be frank, you also have to take into account a seller's previous reputation, and in this case, there is a history of successful dealings stretching way back.

Do I agree that it was unethical? Yes.

Are people allowed a mistake? Yes.

Is it PL worthy given the history and previous good conduct? No.

Just my two cents. I'm not condoning it, I just don't think it's worth getting bent out of shape about. Disappointment is all that's happened here and no money has been lost, so that's a positive in my book.

[comicdonna]

3 minutes ago, G G ® said:

 

I'm not saying I disagree with either of you, just pointing out that these things do happen, and you cannot force someone to sell you their book even if a deal was agreed.

To be frank, you also have to take into account a seller's previous reputation, and in this case, there is a history of successful dealings stretching way back.

Do I agree that it was unethical? Yes.

Are people allowed a mistake? Yes.

Is it PL worthy given the history and previous good conduct? No.

Just my two cents. I'm not condoning it, I just don't think it's worth getting bent out of shape about. Disappointment is all that's happened here and no money has been lost, so that's a positive in my book.

If this is the case, we might as well shut down the marketplace probation section.  

[G-G © ® ™]

2 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

If this is the case, we might as well shut down the marketplace probation section.  

So a person makes a bad call once after years of trading and is put on the list immediately?

No-one is allowed a Mulligan? Every one is allowed a blip. There's no history of persistent skullduggery here. There have been a lot worse things here go unpunished.

I would say that a thread like this serves as it's own punishment as people will read all the opinions and responses and make their own informed decision, going forward.

[Foolkiller]

I would not put John on the probation list.  couple of things:

1) if he had not received the check (and I do think he deserves the benefit of the doubt that it didn't especially if it wasn't cashed) in a timely fashion, he'd have the right to cancel the sale for whatever reason.  According to this, it was two weeks at which time he basically said, I didn't get it etc. and now I've decided I don't want to sell it.

2) I do agree with the sentiment that this is not so egregious that a probation list nomination is worthy and I do think some consideration should go to those who've had many, many, many successful transactions and the infraction is very minor.

3) All that said, I have no reason to doubt the buyer either in that he sent the check and this is disappointing and frustrating.  Some other accommodation or perhaps something else offered might have been a way to smooth it over.  

Regardless, I wouldn't put him on the probation list.

[G-G © ® ™]

You also have to take into account the seller's angle here. He waits two weeks for the money which was supposedly coming, and sees nothing. Perhaps that annoyed him. It would annoy me.

We've only got one side here, obviously we need the seller to chime in before everyone gets their pitchforks out for polishing.

[comicdonna]

Just now, G G ® said:

You also have to take into account the seller's angle here. He waits two weeks for the money which was supposedly coming, and sees nothing. Perhaps that annoyed him. It would annoy me.

We've only got one side here, obviously we need the seller to chime in before everyone gets their pitchforks out for polishing.

The buyer immediately made multiple attempts to send another check or direct payment.  The seller refused.  

[G-G © ® ™]

2 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

5 minutes ago, G G ® said:

You also have to take into account the seller's angle here. He waits two weeks for the money which was supposedly coming, and sees nothing. Perhaps that annoyed him. It would annoy me.

We've only got one side here, obviously we need the seller to chime in before everyone gets their pitchforks out for polishing.

The buyer immediately made multiple attempts to send another check or direct payment.  The seller refused.  

If I had a check for $1900 already sent and floating about, I would not be offering to send another one and offering paypal either until some decent period of time had elapsed.

Just sayin'.