May Heritage Auction starting to look pretty interesting 3 3

[jjonahjameson11]

19 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Which may be true, but is nutty, in my opinion. Why don’t people look at really good unappreciated art, like that by Jerry Grandinetti, for example? There is a lot of it out there, pieces by Jack Sparling or Grey Morrow, and other old timers, really unappreciated. 

It doesn't resonate.  Aside from Gray Morrow Zatanna pages or perhaps a few very nice Grandinetti DC War covers, it was run of the mill stuff, and there has been decades of run of the mill stuff that just isn't memorable, and hence, its not nostalgic and not collected.

[stinkininkin]

2 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

4 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

I don't think anyone mentioned the BWS Conan 2 cover coming in at 264k. That's a lot of cheese for a "flat or stagnating BWS Conan market" often talked about here on these boards in the last few years. It's also a really nice cover, one I would be happy to own, but not one of the top 5, or probably even top 10. Before the auction, I would have guessed no more than 125-140k. So yeah, BIG close on this one!

 

There's only one fella that I can recall that mentioned this on the boards, and I don't think he's as active as he was once upon a time.

Still, $264K for the Conan 2 cover is a pretty big number, all things considered.

Perhaps, but @delekkerste wasn't wrong. The PUBLIC results of BWS Conan sales HAVE been lagging the rest of the market somewhat. But the numbers on BWS Weapon X have gone bonkers, so I'm wondering if that has juiced anything BWS? Or maybe this Conan 2 cover is a total outlier. I think it's a cool cover regardless, but I am an unabashed BWS fan, Conan or otherwise.

Edited June 20, 2021 by stinkininkin

[stinkininkin]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

How much of that result is "#2"? Seriously asking.

[delekkerste]

2 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

Perhaps, but @delekkerste wasn't wrong. The PUBLIC results of BWS Conan sales HAVE been lagging the rest of the market somewhat. But the numbers on BWS Weapon X have gone bonkers, so I'm wondering if that has juiced anything BWS? Or maybe this Conan 2 cover is a total outlier. I think it's a cool cover regardless, but I am an unabashed BWS fan, Conan or otherwise.

I think it's settled science that the BWS Conan market was flat-to-down from roughly 2014-2019. The monetary debasement-fueled broad asset price inflation we've seen go into overdrive in 2020-21 has, however, even managed to revive the BWS Conan market, at least somewhat.  But, the #2 cover is a clear outlier IMO.

I'm going to have to disagree with some here - $264K is an insane price, and, IMO, even $125-140K is not a good price for this cover either (I suspect that much money could pry out a better cover from somewhere).  I talked to a lot of veteran/high-end collectors, including die-hard BWS and/or Conan fans/collectors, and not a soul told me that they think this is anything but one of the weaker/weakest covers in the BWS run.  Crude early BWS art, static image, lots of white-out.  

I don't know if it's accurate or not, but, I was told that this cover was available privately not long ago for more than 70% below the auction result.  And nobody took it.  It suddenly looks a lot better now that someone just paid $264K for it, but, a few months ago, this cover would have been "oh, that's the BWS Conan cover that nobody really cares about and that everybody passed on when they had the chance to buy it much lower".  

Edited June 20, 2021 by delekkerste

[Taylor G]

57 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Why don’t people look at really good unappreciated art,

Please be quiet. 

[Timely]

22 hours ago, Unstoppablejayd said:

Anyone have some insight on why this portacio panel broke 10k? Something special or is that where we are now for his x related art ? 
 

 

I find this image… unappealing.

[Rick2you2]

1 hour ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

It doesn't resonate.  Aside from Gray Morrow Zatanna pages or perhaps a few very nice Grandinetti DC War covers, it was run of the mill stuff, and there has been decades of run of the mill stuff that just isn't memorable, and hence, its not nostalgic and not collected.

I guess I don’t agree with your standard. For me, I look to the general quality of the illustrator’s skill, does the illustrator’s technique match the subject matter well (like classic Aparo on supernatural subjects) and did the artist move the story along? While memorable is nice, and will motivate my purchase too, that, to me, is often something controlled by the writer. It isn’t the artist’s fault if the story subject is mediocre.

[vodou]

17 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

I guess I don’t agree with your standard. For me, I look to...

Wasting your time here unless the next words are Dale Keown or McVenom  

[jjonahjameson11]

31 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

I guess I don’t agree with your standard. For me, I look to the general quality of the illustrator’s skill, does the illustrator’s technique match the subject matter well (like classic Aparo on supernatural subjects) and did the artist move the story along? While memorable is nice, and will motivate my purchase too, that, to me, is often something controlled by the writer. It isn’t the artist’s fault if the story subject is mediocre.

Its not my standard...its just the way it is amongst the OA collecting majority.

Sorry you don't like my response, but it is what it is...fact.

[lobrac]

1 hour ago, Timely said:

I find this image… unappealing.

Someone else finds money... unappealing.

[Rick2you2]

I haven’t taken a poll  

9 hours ago, jjonahjameson11 said:

Its not my standard...its just the way it is amongst the OA collecting majority.

Sorry you don't like my response, but it is what it is...fact.

I don’t think you should be so quick to claim majority status, but one way or another, maybe you should consider thinking for yourself?

[jjonahjameson11]

9 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

I haven’t taken a poll  

I don’t think you should be so quick to claim majority status, but one way or another, maybe you should consider thinking for yourself?

Whatever…

[MyNameIsLegion]

4 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I haven’t taken a poll  

I don’t think you should be so quick to claim majority status, but one way or another, maybe you should consider thinking for yourself?

c'mon guys, tone it down. Let's just agree you're both wrong! 

or you're both right. I think the dimension you are missing here, is for whatever reason, the likes of Sparling, Grandinetti, Morrow, and I'll add Mayerik, and Spiegle is this: they're more than competent artists, BUT a large body of their work was not on the big mainstream titles & characters or even publishers in some case.  Therefore, no nostalgia, not enough anyway to measure year over year as reflected in art prices. The only bump they get is just general OA price inflation (high tide raises all ships, etc) These artists are no worse that Heck or Werner Roth (better in IMO) BUT they didn't draw TOS Iron Man, or SA X-Men.   Those titles and history and nostalgia trump the art- didn't matter who drew it.  Larry Leiber drew lots of mediocre classic silver age twice up art, guess what, he get a considerable bump for that. Look at Richard Giordano, he drew and inked a ton of mediocre titles for DC, pinch hitting and batting clean up and prices reflect that.  He's an awesome artist, but unless it was Batman or the like, no one cares. 

summary:

good artist + mediocre title = low prices

bad artist + mainstream title = high prices

I'm glad we got that settled! 

Edited June 21, 2021 by MyNameIsLegion

[WolverineX]

28 minutes ago, MyNameIsLegion said:

c'mon guys, tone it down. Let's just agree you're both wrong! 

or you're both right. I think the dimension you are missing here, is for whatever reason, the likes of Sparling, Grandinetti, Morrow, and I'll add Mayerik, and Spiegle is this: they're more than competent artists, BUT a large body of their work was not on the big mainstream titles & characters or even publishers in some case.  Therefore, no nostalgia, not enough anyway to measure year over year as reflected in art prices. The only bump they get is just general OA price inflation (high tide raises all ships, etc) These artists are no worse that Heck or Werner Roth (better in IMO) BUT they didn't draw TOS Iron Man, or SA X-Men.   Those titles and history and nostalgia trump the art- didn't matter who drew it.  Larry Leiber drew lots of mediocre classic silver age twice up art, guess what, he get a considerable bump for that. Look at Richard Giordano, he drew and inked a ton of mediocre titles for DC, pinch hitting and batting clean up and prices reflect that.  He's an awesome artist, but unless it was Batman or the like, no one cares. 

summary:

good artist + mediocre title = low prices

bad artist + mainstream title = high prices

I'm glad we got that settled! 

How about Frazetta? Most of his stuff is always pricey.  Even unpublished stuff

[Rick2you2]

2 hours ago, MyNameIsLegion said:

c'mon guys, tone it down. Let's just agree you're both wrong! 

or you're both right. I think the dimension you are missing here, is for whatever reason, the likes of Sparling, Grandinetti, Morrow, and I'll add Mayerik, and Spiegle is this: they're more than competent artists, BUT a large body of their work was not on the big mainstream titles & characters or even publishers in some case.  Therefore, no nostalgia, not enough anyway to measure year over year as reflected in art prices. The only bump they get is just general OA price inflation (high tide raises all ships, etc) These artists are no worse that Heck or Werner Roth (better in IMO) BUT they didn't draw TOS Iron Man, or SA X-Men.   Those titles and history and nostalgia trump the art- didn't matter who drew it.  Larry Leiber drew lots of mediocre classic silver age twice up art, guess what, he get a considerable bump for that. Look at Richard Giordano, he drew and inked a ton of mediocre titles for DC, pinch hitting and batting clean up and prices reflect that.  He's an awesome artist, but unless it was Batman or the like, no one cares. 

summary:

good artist + mediocre title = low prices

bad artist + mainstream title = high prices

I'm glad we got that settled! 

I agree with you, but that wasn’t the point of my initial post. Of course nostalgia and mainstream book art command premiums. But, as prices have gone up a lot, Vodou commented about shifting to strip art. My point was simply that you can find good inexpensive page art by shifting your focus to other artists involved in page art, including the names we had mentioned.

And then, there is the second question, which is rarely asked, about good artists having a bad day, or being given a rough subject— like making a standard six panel -script into something better than a standard 6 panel page. A chef once told me that anyone can make a great meal out of a good piece of meat. A great chef can do so with a lousy piece of meat. Same here. I favor the cheaper cuts by a great artist.

[Bronty]

That’s fine but this hobby is more McDonald’s than fine dining .    (And I don’t mean that as a put down; that’s why it’s popular... but it’s also why it isn’t fine dining most of the time). 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Bronty

[pestonaccio]

Can someone please explain me why the opening title page from season of mists, featuring the super cool destiny's back, sold for 31k?

I know it's the best and most craved for sandman storyline, but it's a "dull" page!

[Will_K]

Because that may seem cheap by comparison the next time a page from that storyline sells ?

[pestonaccio]

5 minutes ago, Will_K said:

Because that may seem cheap by comparison the next time a page from that storyline sells ?

Good. I am selling my page featuring dream for 50k. Less than double.

[aqn83]

On 6/19/2021 at 7:37 PM, Unstoppablejayd said:

Anyone have some insight on why this portacio panel broke 10k? Something special or is that where we are now for his x related art ? 
 

 

I bet we can see some Portacio XMEN pages sudden pop up on the market asking for comparable prices.