They're Still Out There! 22 22

[Straw-Man]

3 hours ago, LordRahl said:

I'm a little surprised that they qualified this one. It was manufactured with no staples and they don't usually consider manufacturing issues to be defects so why qualify it?

 

[Straw-Man]

there is a genuine possibility that this book, as well as my very first g.a. book, cap 9, will be the last 2 g.a. books i have at the very end of the day.  you know, THE end.

[LordRahl]

1 hour ago, Straw-Man said:

 

That is super cool. I'd pay more for that book BECAUSE of the off registered colors. But yeah that shouldn't be qualified either 

[Sarg]

Great to see high grade copies of this oddball early EC title in the Promise Zone. No Gaines Files Copies, IIRC.

[mstrange]

57 minutes ago, Sarg said:

Great to see high grade copies of this oddball early EC title in the Promise Zone. No Gaines Files Copies, IIRC.

Some rare EC's I don't think I've ever seen a #5

Edited June 24, 2021 by mstrange

[Robot Man]

59 minutes ago, mstrange said:

Some rare EC's I don't think I've ever seen a #5

I’ve got a 5. Ain’t no Promise copy but yeah, tough to find. 

[lou_fine]

On 6/22/2021 at 6:21 PM, szav said:

Where's lou_fine when I need him to discuss the grading?  I mean, it was sorta covered ad nauseum during pages 20-120 but I do like a little less mud on the back of my 9.8s at least...

Nothing to see here as this is clearly the reason why this book was downgraded from a CGC 10.0 copy down to only a mere CGC 9.8.  

Seriously though, as everybody knows grading is not an exact science and really nothing more than a subjective opinion (albeit a so-called "expert" one) at a particular time when a book crosses a grader's table.  As such, there should always be an acceptable grading margin of error which collectors should be willing to accept when it comes to CGC's grading of a particular book, such as this one here:

Slabbed as a CGC 9.0 graded copy with the Grader's Notes listing the "File Copy" designation written on the front cover and the dust shadow on the back cover as the defects taking the book down to 9.0, similar to how I imagine the "Promise code" designation written on the front cover and the dust shadow on the top back cover defects took this Promise Collection copy of Suspense Comics 11 down to a grade of CGC 9.8.  

Of course, the other caveat to remember is that CCG is a business, and as such, bidders should also understand that CGC will grade according to their current business agenda of the day, and hence bidders should take this fully into account when placing their bids.     

Edited June 24, 2021 by lou_fine

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

7 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Slabbed as a CGC 9.0 graded copy with the Grader's Notes listing the "File Copy" designation written on the front cover and the dust shadow on the back cover as the defects taking the book down to 9.0, similar to how I imagine the "Promise code" designation written on the front cover and the dust shadow on the top back cover defects took this Promise Collection copy of Suspense Comics 11 down to a grade of CGC 9.8.  

[lou_fine]

19 hours ago, october said:

Some of them are definitely overgraded, but luckily for CGC most people don't know how to grape properly anyway. That's partially why they exist. 

Are you trying to say that CGC exists to show that they like most people, also don't know how to grape properly?  

[Pickie]

40 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

(...) bidders should also understand that CGC will grade according to their current business agenda of the day, and hence bidders should take this fully into account when placing their bids.     

I do, I do! But still, have been outbid by a mile ...  

Here's one to go all in for?

[Mmehdy]

9 hours ago, Pickie said:

I do, I do! But still, have been outbid by a mile ...  

Here's one to go all in for?

I had two interesting conversations with those non-board collector/ dealers about the new posting from the promise collection and future buying strategy. One of them says " he gets it now" and will bid accordingly now that price floor has been established in the initial sale. For him, being a long term collector and part time dealer he forgot what it was like back in the "good old days" just how much back then the SF/Church collection premiums were. Look for this collector/dealer who was outbid on "everything" to get a few wins next time. Live and Learn even with 50 plus years of collecting experience.

 The second conversation  was longer and a bit more interesting. Many of you on the boards have bought from him over the years and he has been around the GA block. His "Promise" buying strategy has changed. Originally he was going to buy 5-10 books for his collection and then another 5-10 hold for 3-5 years double the money and get his ones for the collection for free. He is going to keep to the buy 10 keep 5 sell 5 strategy but he is going to concentrate on 9.6 to 9.8 books only regardless of the price. He said the "promise" collection has made many GA collector "numb" as to how really really rare 9.6 and impossible 9.8 books really are. Mid-auction point people are gonna expect a stack of 9.8's every sale. These incredible GA books are not duplicatable in that quantity.  But when the last auction hits and reality comes back to the GA comic book market, that is when price realization will really hit and the rarity and true value will be limited not 4000 out 5000 plus OO pedigree books but that particular book itself. That is where the price jumps are gonna occur right out the starting gate once the "promise collection" is said and done. He real worry is competition. He feels the "whale collectors" or even the non-whale in the know  GA collectors are gonna and keep..for a very very long time their winnings . Yes, its was very very expensive when the SF collection  hit, unheard of, insane etc.... but on a much bigger scale and a even playing field the promise book collection is every inch up there.

I love the above book, it is fantastic but at some point down the road we will be looking at what is  NOT gonna be next, but how much more is it gonna cost after the initial auction sale. In my 50 years of collection I cannot recall ever looking daily at a HA auction site to see...what is coming up next.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Dr. Love]

Deep data dive

these are the books graded at the same time as the first round but didn't make the first auction, and aren't scheduled for the next one - yet

Action 77  7.0

All Winners 7  5.5

All Winners 8  5.5 Qualified - missing centerfold

Captain America 1  3.5

Sub-Mariner 24  6.0

Web of Mystery 1  7.5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

[comicnoir]

1 hour ago, Dr. Love said:

Deep data dive

these are the books graded at the same time as the first round but didn't make the first auction, and aren't scheduled for the next one - yet

Action 77  7.0

All Winners 7  5.5

All Winners 8  5.5 Qualified - missing centerfold

Captain America 1  3.5

Sub-Mariner 24  6.0

Web of Mystery 1  7.5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

Good. I have an All Winners 8, 5.5 unqualified.

Edited June 24, 2021 by comicnoir

[RareHighGrade]

2 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

I had two interesting conversations with those non-board collector/ dealers about the new posting from the promise collection and future buying strategy. One of them says " he gets it now" and will bid accordingly now that price floor has been established in the initial sale. For him, being a long term collector and part time dealer he forgot what it was like back in the "good old days" just how much back then the SF/Church collection premiums were. Look for this collector/dealer who was outbid on "everything" to get a few wins next time. Live and Learn even with 50 plus years of collecting experience.

 The second conversation  was longer and a bit more interesting. Many of you on the boards have bought from him over the years and he has been around the GA block. His "Promise" buying strategy has changed. Originally he was going to buy 5-10 books for his collection and then another 5-10 hold for 3-5 years double the money and get his ones for the collection for free. He is going to keep to the buy 10 keep 5 sell 5 strategy but he is going to concentrate on 9.6 to 9.8 books only regardless of the price. He said the "promise" collection has made many GA collector "numb" as to how really really rare 9.6 and impossible 9.8 books really are. Mid-auction point people are gonna expect a stack of 9.8's every sale. These incredible GA books are not duplicatable in that quantity.  But when the last auction hits and reality comes back to the GA comic book market, that is when price realization will really hit and the rarity and true value will be limited not 4000 out 5000 plus OO pedigree books but that particular book itself. That is where the price jumps are gonna occur right out the starting gate once the "promise collection" is said and done. He real worry is competition. He feels the "whale collectors" or even the non-whale in the know  GA collectors are gonna and keep..for a very very long time their winnings . Yes, its was very very expensive when the SF collection  hit, unheard of, insane etc.... but on a much bigger scale and a even playing field the promise book collection is every inch up there.

I love the above book, it is fantastic but at some point down the road we will be looking at what is  NOT gonna be next, but how much more is it gonna cost after the initial auction sale. In my 50 years of collection I cannot recall ever looking daily at a HA auction site to see...what is coming up next.

Mitch, I appreciate your analysis.  What I don't understand is why collectors' perceptions of the rarity of high grade GA books should be different now, thereby causing the prices to explode.  High grade GA books have always been rare, but copies nevertheless existed due to collections like Church, SF, Allentown and Larson.  And at least a few of those pedigree copies were typically available in most Heritage, CC and CL event auctions.  Why should these books and their perceived values be viewed differently now than they were only a few months ago?

[Cat-Man_America]

PROMISE COLLECTION BOOKS in hand! 

FTR, Heritage should be commended on how much better they're doing with scans, both in their catalogues and on-line.  In some cases, they're still too saturated, but much closer to what we'll see in hand, IMO. 

It's definitely tough to scan books with the label on a raised plane and the book recessed.  Here are the Heritage scans side by side with mine.  My scans were done via HP 8300 legal document scanner (door closed).  Please note that I adjusted the scanned images to closely match what I'm seeing in hand (using Photobucket editor I had to push color saturation to 15, shadows down 50 and exposure up 20)...

 

The second images are much closer (my opinion) to how the books actually look in hand even though the colors don't pop quite as much (exception being that HA scan captures spine patina on the Cat-Man #30 better).  

Edited June 25, 2021 by Cat-Man_America

[october]

Pretty sure Heritage doesn't scan. Those are photos.

[Cat-Man_America]

18 hours ago, october said:

Pretty sure Heritage doesn't scan. Those are photos.

Do you know whether they're using hand-colored daguerrotypes or albumen? 

(Sorry, that was meant to be funny.  I'm sure you're right and their images are quite good even if the colors are occasionally blown out a bit.)

Edited June 25, 2021 by Cat-Man_America

[Mmehdy]

2 hours ago, RareHighGrade said:

Mitch, I appreciate your analysis.  What I don't understand is why collectors' perceptions of the rarity of high grade GA books should be different now, thereby causing the prices to explode.  High grade GA books have always been rare, but copies nevertheless existed due to collections like Church, SF, Allentown and Larson.  And at least a few of those pedigree copies were typically available in most Heritage, CC and CL event auctions.  Why should these books and their perceived values be viewed differently now than they were only a few months ago?

First of all lets look at the context of the situation down. If we related back to the direct sales at the time of SF and Church...with from Chuck or the Berkley boys of Bob, Bud, and John. The prices realized in this last Promise  auction were in line those sales 40 plus years ago. So,  I do not from a historical perspective see anything different this time compared to the last two times OO Pedigree collections were introduced. The advantage that the "Promise" collection has over all of those, is at the time we bought them we did not know they would obtain a Pedigree status. We bought them blind, and know they were unlike anything we had ever seen before in that quantity and so out of the gate, like Billy Wright, Promise does have a advantage historically.

 When I see the SF label or Church label that takes a leap of faith. There are a lot of dealers out there that say SF, Church etc without absolute proof. The Promise collection will have NO DOUBTS. That is a factor in this new value. In addition, the special certificates issued by HA on resale (90% including BP) is unprecedented.

  Unlike 40 years ago, we now have the opportunity to take a mega OO Pedigree 5000+ book collection and entirely document every comic  book image front and back , every grade, every flaw and  all of that information will  be available on the internet instantaneously world wide for the ENTIRE collection going forward. This is unprecedented in our GA comic book world and the resulting prices will reflect that now and in the future. Yes RHG, there is a difference here. I do not believe any one collector can take over this collection, this is going to be very spread out initially among different collecting groups rather than a "dentist" cherry picking the collection. Sure some smart investor/dealers are going to go after the "impossible" 9.8 books as well as real TCBC's. So be it. But the fact that his collection and bidders are equal in terms of being able to get ALL the books, rather than it is who you know in the old day GA dealer mode, that accessibility coupled with a simply amazing website to navigate thru, rather within waiting one hour to see the final result for one book like other auction houses, is going to result in a different outcome compared to SF and Chuck both at the time of sale and in the future. That is why, RareHighGrade  the values appeared to be viewed differently than a few months ago and will be going forward. This is new territory for GA comic book collectors and your recognition  of that change is very perceptive.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Mmehdy

[RareHighGrade]

Thanks Mitch.  It will be interesting to see whether, going forward, a Promise copy of a book fares the same, better or worse than the sale of a comparably graded Church or SF copy (assuming there are actually sales to compare).

[Cat-Man_America]

15 minutes ago, szav said:

Not as many that look destined for 100k+ this time,  but a lot of great looking killer books in round two.   Wonder when we'll see them start trickling into the weeklies?

Round one I had said the 9.8s had looked the most accurately graded, but with round two... errr.  I guess I just like the back of my 9.8s to have a little less 'production' fraying/ripping/tearing/chewing  than this 9.8 Star Spangled 38.  But hey, grading messy ripping is hard...and there's still 4500 or so books to right the ship.

Maybe the graders were in blackout mode...