They're Still Out There! 22 22

[sfcityduck]

6 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Yeah I have to bite my tongue sometimes when someone posts an absolutely beautiful structured Planet comics but the color just isn’t there when you’ve seen copies that really pop. I first got into Planet comics myself in the late 1980’s when I discovered #1 and you could get nice colors on copies through at least the 1990’s but I’ve decided they must have all got locked up in collections (like a lot of stuff) now because I rarely see copies surface that excite me. 

Didn't Jerry Buss (Lakers owner) once own the MH Planet run until he had financial troubles (I'm thinking in the 1980s) or am I misremembering?  If so, did they get broken up a bit, or did the whole run stay intact until Fishler/CC sold it?

[Robot Man]

4 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Not Fiction House but I had a copy of DC’s Star Spangled #129 that was decent but washed out colors which I knew. I’ve seen a number come and go since with much better colors I thought about upgrading to. Then a friend I’ve know for years who schooled me on 1950’s DC comics colors back in the day pulls out his copy which is impressive in itself because it’s structurally a 9.2++ but I have never seen any copy yet that rivaled those colors. He purchased most of his DC’s in the 1980’s/1990’s and told me he would spend years looking for the right colors on each one. Damn it showed… 

I didn’t realize that on DCs. Perhaps @adamstrange can weigh in as I know he is a hardcore collector of those. 

[cheetah]

10 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

On the video, Matt and Brian both agreed that the MH books are superior to the Promise books.  Better structurally, page quality, and preservation.  Matt made it clear that MH is undoubtedly better than Promise (and he also gave a nod to SF), and as the chief grader for CGC he should know.  But, its a really good point that the MH did not go straight into encapsulation, so Matt's comment is talking about the well-preserved MHs. 

The area where Matt and Brian saw the Promise as far superior to the MHs was in the backstory.  I completely agree.  Far superior.  And I'm not talking about the backstory told by Heritage.  The MH story is important to comic collecting history, but it is a story a man perhaps placing his livelihood above his family and about a family relationship that seems more than a bit sad.  What kind of dad cares more about comics than his kids?  As for the Promise backstory, Matt and Brian said they are going to take their place near Okajima on backstory, and that statement by them was definitely not hype.  

Call me a cynic but after trying the verify the SF pedigree story, someone is going to have to prove the Promise collection’s story before I believe.  I spent an hour going through Korean War files and census records and didn’t find an easy connection to the current pedigree.  I’m certain the SF story is BS.  I’ll wait to see if the current story holds water.

[adamstrange]

6 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

13 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Not Fiction House but I had a copy of DC’s Star Spangled #129 that was decent but washed out colors which I knew. I’ve seen a number come and go since with much better colors I thought about upgrading to. Then a friend I’ve know for years who schooled me on 1950’s DC comics colors back in the day pulls out his copy which is impressive in itself because it’s structurally a 9.2++ but I have never seen any copy yet that rivaled those colors. He purchased most of his DC’s in the 1980’s/1990’s and told me he would spend years looking for the right colors on each one. Damn it showed… 

I didn’t realize that on DCs. Perhaps @adamstrange can weigh in as I know he is a hardcore collector of those. 

In general, I've not seen much printing variation for DCs in the Jan 1950 - July 1952 era.  (Note:  Print quality changed in Aug '52.)

Star Spangled 129 has a delicate color design, relying on subtle use of pastels against the lightest blue background.  Church copy.

[N e r V]

17 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Didn't Jerry Buss (Lakers owner) once own the MH Planet run until he had financial troubles (I'm thinking in the 1980s) or am I misremembering?  If so, did they get broken up a bit, or did the whole run stay intact until Fishler/CC sold it?

He did have coins and comic collections for sure. He was certainly a pure collector. Never heard about Planets though and I’ve wondered if Jeanie was left any of his collectibles. She grew up reading comics too but I’m not sure if she ever had that collecting bug.

I do remember when he died it was said that about half of the most valuable  collections of comic books resided in Southern California although I’m not sure how they got to that information other than there’s enough money out here with many to buy whatever you want.

Edited May 20, 2021 by N e r V

[N e r V]

17 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Call me a cynic but after trying the verify the SF pedigree story, someone is going to have to prove the Promise collection’s story before I believe.  I spent an hour going through Korean War files and census records and didn’t find an easy connection to the current pedigree.  I’m certain the SF story is BS.  I’ll wait to see if the current story holds water.

“when you had to choose between history and legend, print the legend.”

Sadly the above still holds true today be it in comics or life in general.

[jimjum12]

5 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

It's way too subjective.

I place far too much intrinsic value on wrap, cut, gloss, color strike, for a numerical grade that focuses on structure to decide the title of "Best In The World". Let's take Fiction House, for example, I'd take one of Flex's color strike freaks in 9.4 over a 9.6 or 9.8 that structures better but fails in that area.... all day every day.  It's about more than just what best fits through the cull ring. ...And gloss, don't get me started ... full gloss, to me, is at least a grade in itself... unless gloss is common for the book...so many things to consider. With absolutes we find ourselves drifting into those "Ginger vs. Mary Ann" or "Betty vs. Wilma" debates. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) 

[N e r V]

22 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

I place far too much intrinsic value on wrap, cut, gloss, color strike, for a numerical grade that focuses on structure to decide the title of "Best In The World". Let's take Fiction House, for example, I'd take one of Flex's color strike freaks in 9.4 over a 9.6 or 9.8 that structures better but fails in that area.... all day every day.  It's about more than just what best fits through the cull ring. ...And gloss, don't get me started ... full gloss, to me, is at least a grade in itself... unless gloss is common for the book...so many things to consider. With absolutes we find ourselves drifting into those "Ginger vs. Mary Ann" or "Betty vs. Wilma" debates. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) 

You forgot Betty vs Veronica…

[lou_fine]

On 5/19/2021 at 4:22 AM, Timely said:

I’m not sure I’m getting my point across. It’s not about having another high grade copy out there, it’s about a new copy being crowned as the highest graded copy and what impact it has on the former highest graded copy. 

 

There is fierce competition at that very top level with top collectors jockeying for position to claim that top honor, to get those registry points... to be #1! 

Oh, I see what you are talking about now................it's not so much that you might end up losing money, but the mere fact that you will be losing that #1 top position that you and some others might be coveting.  

Definitely a case of to each, their own, but I guess I initially missed your point because that aspect of it is just not part of my collecting DNA when it comes to these comic books here.  Especially since I find that grading is really nothing more than just a subjective opinion (albeit an expert one) at a particular point in time when the book crosses a grader's table, as opposed to an exact science or number which money (ok, not Bitcoin ) basically is.  Too many other factors that might also come into play that affects a grade for me to go out and pay unreasonable premiums for a slightly higher grade, with some of these being the seeming ongoing CPR game to artifically manipulate grades, grading errors since graders are only human after all, the seeming weaponizing of grades at certain key points in time to possibly fit a business agenda which has resulted in loose grading time periods versus tight grading time periods, etc.  

I guess when it comes to my GA comic books, just as long as it presents nicely and I am happy with it, that's good enough for me and I certainly would never ever feel the need to upgrade if it's going to cost me a lot more money.  I guess just having the book is more important than chasing after the graded label.  More power though to those who can afford to go after not only the book, but also the label.  I guess I have always found that the highest graded label only carries transitory value since there is most likely another copy out there that's eventually going to come out in higher graded condition.  Especially in the case of GA books whereby most of the better collections are probably still locked away in private vaults at this current point in time still waiting to be graded and slabbed.   

Edited May 21, 2021 by lou_fine

[jimjum12]

7 minutes ago, N e r V said:

You forgot Betty vs Veronica…

...with Betty and Veronica I decided to pull a "Deion" and choose BOTH ... B&V were my second loves, after Gwen ... and maybe Sue (... but that may have been an oedipus thing there... ) GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Gotham Kid]

3 hours ago, Robot Man said:

There is the Church collection and there are all the rest...

Much like Elvis.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[Spyder!]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Didn't Jerry Buss (Lakers owner) once own the MH Planet run until he had financial troubles (I'm thinking in the 1980s) or am I misremembering?  If so, did they get broken up a bit, or did the whole run stay intact until Fishler/CC sold it?

The Church Planet auction when Fishler sold didn't have the complete run.  I think there were about a dozen missing from that auction.

[Spyder!]

1 hour ago, Robot Man said:

I can’t tell you how many FH books I’ve actually downgraded to for bright cover color. I don’t care about the technical grade nearly as much as I do the color. I have upgraded a few several times until I get that color saturation I want. 

So true about the colors on FH books.

[sfcityduck]

3 minutes ago, Spyder! said:

So true about the colors on FH books.

Love the colors in your sig line!

[Spyder!]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Didn't Jerry Buss (Lakers owner) once own the MH Planet run until he had financial troubles (I'm thinking in the 1980s) or am I misremembering?  If so, did they get broken up a bit, or did the whole run stay intact until Fishler/CC sold it?

Went back and looked and there were 14 issues not included in the auction of the Church Planet Comics.  Zolnerowich provided a nice summary of the auction results here:

 

[jimjum12]

27 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

the seeming weaponizing of grades at certain key points in time to possibly fit a business agenda which has resulted in loose grading time periods versus tight grading time periods, etc.  

This is where I'm not so sure... it DOES seem that way from certain angles, but I wonder if the answer might not be more simple and less nefarious ... a product of CGC trying to make everyone happy in a dynamic of opposing forces... the folks who want nice extra tight grades for their collections, and those who don't want those because they're leaving money on the table. This flux may prove to create opportunities that a sharp opportunistic manager might be able capitalize on, but that may be more of an aftereffect than a directive. GOD BLESS ....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited May 20, 2021 by jimjum12

[N e r V]

3 hours ago, Robot Man said:

There is the Church collection and there are all the rest...

 

42 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

Much like Gotham Kid.

Fixed!

[batman_fan]

2 hours ago, N e r V said:

…until hackers break in and threaten to let it all go public unless you pay them…

How do you know that hasn't already happened.  The fear of my Strawberry Shortcake collection getting out to the masses was a pretty strong pull to meet their demands.

[jimjum12]

2 hours ago, Robot Man said:

I can’t tell you how many FH books I’ve actually downgraded to for bright cover color. I don’t care about the technical grade nearly as much as I do the color. I have upgraded a few several times until I get that color saturation I want. 

This is the difference between a connoisseur and an investor and is a large part of WHY grading is subjective. Sometimes we forget what a true outlier book really looks like in hand, we've become a little desensitized to the intangibles of perfection in this age of scans and screens. Your approach to collecting is always refreshing, Bob ... you inspire me. GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

24 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

  2 hours ago, Robot Man said:

I can’t tell you how many FH books I’ve actually downgraded to for bright cover color. I don’t care about the technical grade nearly as much as I do the color. I have upgraded a few several times until I get that color saturation I want. 

This is exactly my mindset with FH as well.