Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 41 41

[lou_fine]

On 8/15/2024 at 6:00 PM, Stefan_W said:

Not my bag, but it will be fun to watch and see what this set goes for. 

 

Interesting to note that this set managed to hit into the teens, but I imagine nowhere close to the Reserve price as the bid has now been bumped up all the way to $7,900 with the notation that the next bid of $8K will hit the reserve price.  Wonder if anybody will be willing to hit the bid button, considering the sheer number of uber HG copies of this book out there?    

Although highest graded copies are always expected to fetch record setting prices, being the contrarian that I am, I always tend to find it much more interesting when lowest (or near lowest) graded copies or even restored copies of a book are still able to fetch record setting prices.  Perfect case in point would be this book here that I saw in last weekend's Heritage auction:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/fantastic-comics-22-fox-1941-cgc-fr-10-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122434-15140.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction#

Although it definitely presents much nicer than its assigned CGC 1.0 grade (i.e. second lowest out of 13 graded copies), that's still a rather whopping record setting price of $18K or at a price point that's almost 50X its condition guide value of only $392. 

Especially since the label denotes it as missing an entire half  page which then leads me to wonder why it's not in a GLOD slab or listed as Incomplete.    

[Stefan_W]

On 8/24/2024 at 3:55 PM, lou_fine said:

Interesting to note that this set managed to hit into the teens, but I imagine nowhere close to the Reserve price as the bid has now been bumped up all the way to $7,900 with the notation that the next bid of $8K will hit the reserve price.  Wonder if anybody will be willing to hit the bid button, considering the sheer number of uber HG copies of this book out there?    

Although highest graded copies are always expected to fetch record setting prices, being the contrarian that I am, I always tend to find it much more interesting when lowest (or near lowest) graded copies or even restored copies of a book are still able to fetch record setting prices.  Perfect case in point would be this book here that I saw in last weekend's Heritage auction:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/fantastic-comics-22-fox-1941-cgc-fr-10-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/122434-15140.s?type=bidnotice-tracked-endofauction#

Although it definitely presents much nicer than its assigned CGC 1.0 grade (i.e. second lowest out of 13 graded copies), that's still a rather whopping record setting price of $18K or at a price point that's almost 50X its condition guide value of only $392. 

Especially since the label denotes it as missing an entire half  page which then leads me to wonder why it's not in a GLOD slab or listed as Incomplete.    

I am willing to bet a significant amount of cash that the seller of the X-Men 1 had two buddies and asked the first to bid 7800, and the second to bid 7900, with the actual value being $8k. I remember a much lower scale example, and slightly different process, where some Afterlife with Archie slabs that kept getting bid up and then magically appearing in the next CL auction when no one sniped them in the end. You gotta do what you gotta do, I guess, but I agree that the odds of someone swooping in and scooping them seems remote. I guess we'll see 

I completely agree that low grade sales can be extremely interesting. It is all about presentation, and the market on them is bigger than for better copies since they are the most affordable ones and allow people to at least have a copy of the book. You can see some wild sales on low grade books at auction as a result as people get invested and competitive. 

[lou_fine]

On 8/24/2024 at 1:02 PM, Stefan_W said:

I am willing to bet a significant amount of cash that the seller of the X-Men 1 had two buddies and asked the first to bid 7800, and the second to bid 7900, with the actual value being $8k. I remember a much lower scale example, and slightly different process, where some Afterlife with Archie slabs that kept getting bid up and then magically appearing in the next CL auction when no one sniped them in the end. You gotta do what you gotta do, I guess, but I agree that the odds of someone swooping in and scooping them seems remote. I guess we'll see 

I thought it was standard procedure for the auction houses themselves to place a bid just below the Reserve price on books that have not hit this magical price point? 

Then again, I though this was normally done only one day prior to the end of the auction and not like 5 full days before, but not sure how CL handles lots with reserve prices?  

[Stefan_W]

On 8/24/2024 at 4:10 PM, lou_fine said:

I thought it was standard procedure for the auction houses themselves to place a bid just below the Reserve price on books that have not hit this magical price point? 

Then again, I though this was normally done only one day prior to the end of the auction and not like 5 full days before, but not sure how CL handles lots with reserve prices?  

Yeah, if it is the auction house doing it I would also expect it to be closer to the end of the auction to maximize the amount that people can become invested in it while minimizing the amount of time given to people to talk themselves out of it. I am thinking a couple of buddies put in bids here. 

This has the feel now of an Ebay auction where someone is starting the bidding at the minimum they will take. 

Edited August 24 by Stefan_W

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/24/2024 at 11:34 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Most tragic?

nah.

Silver Surfer is the most tragic, by far.

Solid choice for sure.

[VintageComics]

On 8/24/2024 at 4:02 PM, Stefan_W said:

I am willing to bet a significant amount of cash that the seller of the X-Men 1 had two buddies and asked the first to bid 7800, and the second to bid 7900, with the actual value being $8k. I remember a much lower scale example, and slightly different process, where some Afterlife with Archie slabs that kept getting bid up and then magically appearing in the next CL auction when no one sniped them in the end. You gotta do what you gotta do, I guess, but I agree that the odds of someone swooping in and scooping them seems remote. I guess we'll see 

There are a LOT of shady consignors who have friends bid their books up but this isn't a reflection on the auction house in any way. It's been common practice in the hobby for as long as there have been auctions. Full disclosure, I've been asked to have it done but have never agreed to it or had it done myself. I always tell people to bid whatever they want to pay for an item and I let it fly. 

There are auction houses that officially bid up to right before the reserve on the last day, but I don't think Clink isn't one of them. 

[Stefan_W]

On 8/25/2024 at 3:27 PM, VintageComics said:

There are a LOT of shady consignors who have friends bid their books up but this isn't a reflection on the auction house in any way. It's been common practice in the hobby for as long as there have been auctions. Full disclosure, I've been asked to have it done but have never agreed to it or had it done myself. I always tell people to bid whatever they want to pay for an item and I let it fly. 

There are auction houses that officially bid up to right before the reserve on the last day, but I don't think Clink isn't one of them. 

Oh yeah, for sure. I dont believe CLink does that at all but there is no way of stopping people from asking friends to bid, etc. I am pretty sure some auction houses (not CLink) have no rule against bidding up your own books as well since it is impossible to prevent this sort of thing regardless. Heck, I am sure that some people got friends to bid up their books in live auctions prior to the Internet. It is all a part of the fun of taking part in auctions. 

Edited August 25 by Stefan_W

[Mississippi Mudcats]

On 8/25/2024 at 2:47 PM, Stefan_W said:

Oh yeah, for sure. I dont believe CLink does that at all but there is no way of stopping people from asking friends to bid, etc. I am pretty sure some auction houses (not CLink) have no rule against bidding up your own books as well since it is impossible to prevent this sort of thing regardless. Heck, I am sure that some people got friends to bid up their books in live auctions prior to the Internet. It is all a part of the fun of taking part in auctions. 

Honestly, I have zero issues with sellers  enlisting friends to bid for them. If they want to buy back their book and pay 10%, so what? It is still a buyer’s choice how high they bid. 

Rather, my gripe is with auction houses that bid you right up to any bid you leave to squeeze every dollar out of the buyer. Owners cannot do that as they risk buying back the books, but auction houses know what bids are in the system and can and do, unless it is just uncanny how I always place perfect bids every time I place one early because I cannot be on the line for the live auction LOl. I really don’t think I am that smart. 

Auction houses are also buying books in for their own accounts, as some of the biggest recent sales were bought by owners of the auction houses. I am not sure if that one really bothers me, although they do have an unfair advantage vis-a-vis other bidders, 

But I do have a big issue with auction houses buying your book, upgrading it and reselling it, which has happened to me more times than I care to remember. I don’t even know if they press them, maybe it’s a straight resubmission.

There are lots of games that dealers/auction houses play, a seller having someone bid for them is the least of my concerns. 

Edited August 25 by Mississippi Mudcats

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 8/25/2024 at 4:03 PM, Mississippi Mudcats said:

my gripe is with auction houses that bid you right up to any bid you leave to squeeze every dollar out of the buyer. Owners cannot do that as they risk buying back the books, but auction houses know what bids are in the system and can and do, unless it is just uncanny how I always place perfect bids every time

this has happened to me too

Edited August 25 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[Microchip]

On 8/26/2024 at 7:12 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

On 8/26/2024 at 7:03 AM, Mississippi Mudcats said:

my gripe is with auction houses that bid you right up to any bid you leave to squeeze every dollar out of the buyer. Owners cannot do that as they risk buying back the books, but auction houses know what bids are in the system and can and do, unless it is just uncanny how I always place perfect bids every time

this has happened to me too

Help me Connect the dots here.

[alexgross.com]

On 8/25/2024 at 4:43 PM, Microchip said:

Help me Connect the dots here.

what dots do you need connected? as mudcats noted, all the auction houses have access to your bids on the back end. so if you bid $500, but the current bid level is only at $200, it is almost inevitable that the book will receive a bunch more bids until it is indeed at $500, or you may even be outbid, depending on the value of the book. people who have worked for some of these large auction houses have expounded on these types of practices here and elsewhere, and auction houses have also been sued for related allegations.

i will never pre-bid on any books after having an obvious experience with this exact thing at a major auction house. i will only bid right before something ends. even then, many books may have been bumped or shilled up to that price, but at least the auction site won't have had access to my max bid for days in advance. 

it's all incredibly opaque and none of it encourages one to believe that it is done honestly. 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/25/2024 at 9:17 PM, alexgross.com said:

what dots do you need connected? as mudcats noted, all the auction houses have access to your bids on the back end. so if you bid $500, but the current bid level is only at $200, it is almost inevitable that the book will receive a bunch more bids until it is indeed at $500, or you may even be outbid, depending on the value of the book. people who have worked for some of these large auction houses have expounded on these types of practices here and elsewhere, and auction houses have also been sued for related allegations.

i will never pre-bid on any books after having an obvious experience with this exact thing at a major auction house. i will only bid right before something ends. even then, many books may have been bumped or shilled up to that price, but at least the auction site won't have had access to my max bid for days in advance. 

it's all incredibly opaque and none of it encourages one to believe that it is done honestly. 

Was it Heritage that admitted that they can and will do this? 

I certainly remember a certain art dealer admitting to doing this through Heritage in coordination with his regular customers.  Then he tried explaining that it wasn't anything that was a big deal because it is frequently done by others.  Then he tried justifying it.  Then he went away.

And then everyone went back to buying from him as normal like nothing happened because... art collectors. 

Edited August 26 by Buzzetta

[jjonahjameson11]

On 8/25/2024 at 10:10 PM, Buzzetta said:

Was it Heritage that admitted that they can and will do this? 

I certainly remember a certain art dealer admitting to doing this through Heritage in coordination with his regular customers.  Then he tried explaining that it wasn't anything that was a big deal because it is frequently done by others.  Then he tried justifying it.  Then he went away.

And then everyone went back to buying from him as normal like nothing happened because... art collectors. 

The art dealer didn’t go away.  Romitaman is still around, and posts frequently on the OA thread.

there are SEVERAL OA resellers on Clink and HA with friends who regularly bid up their auctions in order to protect the value of the hoards.

i have been asked on multiple occasions to bid up other peoples consignments and I’ve refused.  It’s a horrible practice that artificially inflates not just pieces of Ross Andru Spiderman art (as an example), but it also leads to increased prices for from Spidey artists.  I mean, if Ross Andru ASM average pages now command $10K, then his successor on the title, Kieth Pollards pages should also increase because rising tides, and all that mumbo jumbo.

[Robot Man]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:17 PM, alexgross.com said:

what dots do you need connected? as mudcats noted, all the auction houses have access to your bids on the back end. so if you bid $500, but the current bid level is only at $200, it is almost inevitable that the book will receive a bunch more bids until it is indeed at $500, or you may even be outbid, depending on the value of the book. people who have worked for some of these large auction houses have expounded on these types of practices here and elsewhere, and auction houses have also been sued for related allegations.

i will never pre-bid on any books after having an obvious experience with this exact thing at a major auction house. i will only bid right before something ends. even then, many books may have been bumped or shilled up to that price, but at least the auction site won't have had access to my max bid for days in advance. 

it's all incredibly opaque and none of it encourages one to believe that it is done honestly. 

Because of these practices and the huge amount of eyes in the big house auctions, I usually stay away. There is also the BP, taxes and shipping and very aggressive bidding.

Every once in a while I will jump in and pay up if I want it REAL bad. But not very often.

There is very little honesty left in the world…

[KCOComics]

On 8/27/2024 at 11:29 AM, Robot Man said:

Because of these practices and the huge amount of eyes in the big house auctions, I usually stay away. There is also the BP, taxes and shipping and very aggressive bidding.

Every once in a while I will jump in and pay up if I want it REAL bad. But not very often.

There is very 

Yup - 

It's amazing to me that I never seem to win an auction,  unless I'm at the top on my max bid. And that's true with any of the big auction houses. So i gave up. 

I do bid at the MCS weekly auctions, but it's usually low $$ raw 50s stuff

Edited August 27 by KCOComics

[kimik]

Can everyone stop buying the Neal Adams Batman and Tec runs please so prices can go back to 2019 levels like everything else?

[jimjum12]

On 8/27/2024 at 7:02 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

The art dealer didn’t go away.  Romitaman is still around, and posts frequently on the OA thread.

there are SEVERAL OA resellers on Clink and HA with friends who regularly bid up their auctions in order to protect the value of the hoards.

i have been asked on multiple occasions to bid up other peoples consignments and I’ve refused.  It’s a horrible practice that artificially inflates not just pieces of Ross Andru Spiderman art (as an example), but it also leads to increased prices for from Spidey artists.  I mean, if Ross Andru ASM average pages now command $10K, then his successor on the title, Kieth Pollards pages should also increase because rising tides, and all that mumbo jumbo.

There is also what is called Bidder Collusion, where several players in a genre or hobby agree to stay out of various lots so a crony gets a bargain. They will take turns doing this. It's like reverse shilling... or bid rigging. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited September 2 by jimjum12

[fishbone]

On 8/25/2024 at 3:47 PM, Stefan_W said:

Oh yeah, for sure. I dont believe CLink does that at all but there is no way of stopping people from asking friends to bid, etc. I am pretty sure some auction houses (not CLink) have no rule against bidding up your own books as well since it is impossible to prevent this sort of thing regardless. Heck, I am sure that some people got friends to bid up their books in live auctions prior to the Internet. It is all a part of the fun of taking part in auctions. 

either he made a typo or he actually is saying that he thinks CLink DOES do it

 

but I don't think Clink isn't one of them.      (double negative)

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 8/25/2024 at 6:43 PM, Microchip said:

Help me Connect the dots here.

Not the one I was thinking of

Edited August 27 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[ThothAmon]

Have a bunch of tracking bids on Comiclink ending tonight and I’m stunned at the spread on Action 242.  Still some decent room to go to hit recent sales prices on both copies.