When would you say that average people started "knowing" that comics could be valuable? 1 1

[Ken Aldred]

3 minutes ago, Ablation Steve said:

And now an Avengers movie is the highest grossing movie of all time. I kinda miss being a weirdo for liking comics.

Yup. I mourn the passing of being part of an underground, cult-like movement, set apart from mainstream society, and the cheap pamphlets associated with that.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[Larryw7]

I think when Mitch bought the Action 1 is when it started. I was around eight years old, and my father told me about the sale of the Action 1. But he said the comics I had wouldn't be valuable because people were saving them, so they would be common. Of course he was right about my read to death books, but not about the value. I had Spidey 121 and 122, Batman 237 and most of the other Spidey and Bat books from the era, which are all pretty pricey in nice condition.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Larryw7
half asleep

[Gatsby77]

The Death of Superman was definitely the beginning of the end. That was what - November of 1992? The next month the big books were Venom: Lethal Protector # 1 and Secret Defenders # 1.

And then April 1993 it all broke down.

People mock Turok # 1 for its 1.6 million copies, but forget it was only like the 5th-best selling book of the month, after the Return of Superman ones.

April 1993 alone probably put 20% of the comic shops in the country out of business.

But what fascinates me is the difference between Superman 75 (1993) and Captain America 25 (2007).

Both books had hourly shifts in prices, but the rise of eBay in the interim increased the velocity of Cap 25's rise and fall.

Day of, the book went from $2.95 to $60. There were sales on eBay as high as $60 per *in bulk*; yet two weeks later it was available on eBay for just $10 shipped.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1990's.

[1950's war comics]

everyone and their brother were buying multiple copies of ASM 252 off the shelf ... and it still panned out !!

now everyone was also hoarding Spectaclar Spider-Man #1 and that one is still not worth that much though.....

[Gatsby77]

11 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

everyone and their brother were buying multiple copies of ASM 252 off the shelf ... and it still panned out !!

now everyone was also hoarding Spectaclar Spider-Man #1 and that one is still not worth that much though.....

Ditto Wolverine Ltd. Series # 1.

And yet 9.8s of that are now selling for more than $1,000.

[serling1978]

7 hours ago, Ken Aldred said:

Yup. I mourn the passing of being part of an underground, cult-like movement, set apart from mainstream society, and the cheap pamphlets associated with that.

Agreed. And I wish collectors were still the only ones battling for books they wanted. Where your competition is limited to someone who, brace yourselves, wants to OWN that same book. The worst thing the whole "hey these are worth money" phenomena did was create droves of flippers. No way to put that genie back in the bottle. 

[Venomous72]

Well my wife realized it the other month when I showed her how much the IH 181 that I bought a couple years ago is worth now.  The best part of this realization is she no longer says no to me buying books.

"Is it undervalued?"
"yeah a bit"
"then get it!"

Much easier conversation to have now haha

[Gatsby77]

I want to revise my answer.

I'd said 1992 with the Death of Superman and media coverage.

But I think - for my generation, at least - it was the summer of 1989, with the Batman movie.

It was *the* pop culture event of the summer - and the year. And I think it drove more kids to begin collecting comics than anything else in the 80s/90s. And thus, drove huge awareness among their parents ("average people") as well.

In addition, you couldn't go into a comic shop that summer without seeing the full array of modern Batman comics that were $25-$45 wall books: Dark Knight Returns, The Cult, Death in the Family, The Killing Joke, Blind Justice, etc.

That most of these were only a year old - and worth *serious* money at that point - spoke volumes.

These weren't obscure B+W indies like TMNT or its knock-offs a few years earlier - or even unknown-to-the-public Valiant titles that attracted the baseball card and Wall Street crowd a few years later.

This was burgeoning awareness by thousands of new people that even recent mainstream Batman books could be worth money.

It was this influx of new collectors - and average folks - who drove 1 million copies of Legends of the Dark Knight 1 in 1989, 3 million copies of Spider-Man # 1 in 1990, 5 million copies of X-Force 1, then 7.5 million copies of X-Men # 1 in 1991 -- well before Superman 75 came out.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Gatsby77

[HarrisonJohn]

When I was a kid buying comics in the early 80's pretty much every adult male in my life would tell me they had books that would be worth money now, so there was a sense that there was value and they shouldn't be thrown out, at last among dads that used to buy comics. By the early 90s I was a teen and my best friends mom was asking me if X-Force 1 was out yet. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by HarrisonJohn

[Math Teacher]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

It was this influx of new collectors - and average folks - who drove 1 million copies of Legends of the Dark Knight 1 in 1989, 3 million copies of Spider-Man # 1 in 1990, 5 million copies of X-Force 1, then 7.5 million copies of X-Men # 1 in 1991 -- well before Superman 75 came out.

And I bought just one copy of each. At least I was only a very, very small part of the problem.

And I remember when Image Comics started. I started buying all of their titles, not for investment purposes, but I wanted to see/read work from some of my favorite comic creators. Image killed the golden goose when they produced comics that, for lack of a better term, were drek. And their chronic late shipping was also a problem for them. After waiting for six months for an some issues to be released, I just called it quits with Image. Image is still producing comics, but they are no longer the force they were in the 1990s.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Math Teacher

[Gatsby77]

Exactly. And nothing demonstrated this more than “Image Comics Month” - with the 7 comics containing the coupon required to receive Image # 0.

Literally only 1 of the 7 books actually came out that month - Shadowhawk # 1.

[Robot Man]

3 hours ago, 1950's war comics said:

everyone and their brother were buying multiple copies of ASM 252 off the shelf ... and it still panned out !!

now everyone was also hoarding Spectaclar Spider-Man #1 and that one is still not worth that much though.....

I bought 25 copies of ASM #300 off the rack because It was #300, McFarlane and I liked the character. I just knew it would be a “rare collector’s item”...

[Robot Man]

37 minutes ago, Math Teacher said:

And I bought just one copy of each. At least I was only a very, very small part of the problem.

And I remember when Image Comics started. I started buying all of their titles, not for investment purposes, but I wanted to see/read work from some of my favorite comic creators. Image killed the golden goose when they produced comics that, for lack of a better term, were drek. And their chronic late shipping was also a problem for them. After waiting for six months for an some issues to be released, I just called it quits with Image. Image is still producing comics, but they are no longer the force they were in the 1990s.

I put Walking Dead back on the rack because I thought the story was lame and the art suked...

[musicmeta]

4 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Ditto Wolverine Ltd. Series # 1.

And yet 9.8s of that are now selling for more than $1,000.

Well, I'm having a very hard time finding one in "any" condition......just kidding....Yes, I can't believe what this book is going for.  
I have a copy in 9.8 but don't need the money right now.  Surely the value is going to drop like a rock but who really knows?  Just insane leaps in prices paid for within the last year or so.

Edited April 27, 2021 by musicmeta

[cmixer]

My opinion on the original question ...

Before the internet, someone had to "tell you" that an item was collectible. 
Overstreet achieved national distribution starting 1976. 
Krause bought & re-launched Comics Buyers Guide in 1983.
Beckett Publications (baseball card magazine) was launched in 1984.
Wizard Magazine launched in 1991. 

So true hobbyists were "informed" in the early 1980's, but the general public didn't catch on until the early 1990's. 

 

[Randall Ries]

I still run into people that go "WHAT? You're KIDDING!" when I tell them about the recent Bat 1 sale at over a mill. In fact MOST people I mention it to have no idea. Like the goomers on "Antiques Road Show".

We watch owners of various heirlooms, antiques and keepsakes sit down and subject themselves to a real education - albeit briefly and sometimes judging by the looks on some of their faces unwillingly - from a real historian or a curator from a museum. I like to imagine that before the pre selected featured guests and their antiques are allowed to be on television, the moderator sits them down, leans in and earnestly says:

"Now look here, you ignorant Minnesotans. You just sit in that chair across from the curator of the museum, keep your trap shut and LISTEN to what he has to say instead of trying to interject some of your own likely inside out ideas into your objects. We have a decent amount of viewers who are actually interested in finding out some stuff and we don't need you to help them turn the channel. We're on PBS and we're teetering. Get it? Just shut up and you might learn something from someone who actually knows something. Kapeesh?"

A lot of people seem to swing between being either genuinely shocked or incredibly blasé when told they have something historically significant and EXTREMELY valuable on "Antiques Road Show":

"Oh MY! I had NO idea!
The appraiser said my cornucopia is actually called an "Olyphant" and was a horn used in ancient battles. Typically carved from ivory and inlaid with gold, this one is dated from the 11th century and it's worth $17,000,000! I've been stuffing it with Papier-mâché vegetables and fake autumn leaves at Thanksgiving time and letting the kids play 'Louis Armstrong' with it for years! Sorry, kids! This is going up on the top of the refrigerator till next Thanksgiving! Tee Hee!!!"

"REALLY? You GOTTA be KIDDING!!!
This ratty old baseball card is actually a 1910 Honus Wagner tobacco card worth $450,000!!! No more shoring up the short leg of the kitchen table for you!!!"

"Wow!" (Or "Wowee!")
"Wow"? You brought in a Chippendale antique secretary which was originally made by the Goddard-Townsend family of cabinet-makers. Estimates are that no more than 7 were ever made. A very similar piece a Nicholas Brown antique secretary made around 1760 sold at a Christie's auction for $12,100,000 and all you can say is "Wow"?

"Oh My GOD!!!
To think I've been using this 1930's Tiffany lamp shade as basketball hoop all these years! I guess I'd better start taking better care of it!"

I went to Middle school in the early mid 1970's and kids were bringing in their parents and grandparents books and trading them. Seems to me the "craze" had begun then or a little bit before. Unless I am around people of like mind, it seems like the public at large still has no real idea what something could be valued at. Which - to me - is odd because of the emphasis that is put on money these days.

I wrote a rather gigantic essay on this phenomenon because it has always fascinated me. And although "Pawn Stars" is a fable, the dynamics typically are NOT:

Let's drop in the Gold And Silver pawn shop and watch a typical scene from "Pawn Stars":

Rick: "So, what have we got here?"

insufficiently_thoughtful_person: "Well, I guts the last pair of eyeglasses Benjamin Franklin ever wore!"

Rick: "Really? Cool! Where'd you get them?"

insufficiently_thoughtful_person: "Mah Great-Great-Great Grammy tended to him. After the death of his wife Deborah, Ben lived wiv his daughter Sarah's family. Sarah nursed him as his health went south. Finally, Ol' Ben died peacefully inniz sleep on April 17, 1790. He was 84 years old. Sarah gave mah Great-Great Grammy, who wuz a chambermaid to the Franklin clan his glasses shortly a'fore she died for helpin' take car ah him as a 'membrance. Then, they got passed down through mah family as a treasured heirloom. I inherited them from mah Momma when she died, I ain't gut no use furrum an' it's ben awhile since I been to de dog track, so here I am!"

Rick: "Lucky us! Hahahahahee! Er...I mean...neat story! You got any paperwork or proof of authenticity?"

Clown: "You sayin' I'm a lahr?"

Rick: "Not at all. But before I can make an offer, I have to know whether these are the real deal or not. Anybody could walk in off the street with a pair of granny glasses claiming they belonged to Ben Franklin, but in reality actually belonged to Irene Ryan, making them far less valuable. Tell you what: I got a buddy I can call who's an expert in Ben Franklin memorabilia and a DNA scientist as well. Let me get him down here and see what he says about these. If these are the real McCoy, we'll try to make a deal. Sound good?"

Dunce: "Awright. Bring yer Mr. Smarty Paints in here. I cain't wait!"

"Mr. Smarty Paints" eventually arrives, usually after a commercial break. He spins down a quick DNA test from a sample of eye grime taken from one of the wing screws of the spectacles and matches it up with a nose hair found in Benjamin Franklins death mask and verifies that these glasses are indeed legitimate and the nicest pair he has ever seen. He bestows a value of $10,000 on them and the torpid owner of the glasses almost swallows his tongue gloating. Sometimes, "Mr Smarty Paints" will try to encourage the owner in so many words to keep whatever it is he's trying to pawn or sell for history's sake, but usually the owner is blinded by tacky monetary value and spitting contemptuously, turns his back on the expert, completely ignoring him or her. Rick bids "Ta-Ta" to the expert by signaling the security guard to hustle "Brainiac" out of there before he or she can queer the deal about to go down.

Rick then turns to Stupid and eyes him like Rikki-Tikki-Tavi sizing up a viper:

Rick: "So, what do you want to do with these things? Pawn 'em or sell 'em?"

Semi-Conscious: "SELL 'EM!!!"

Rick: "O-o-o-kay, so whaddaya want for them?"

Buffoon: "Ah heard the main say they worth $10,000. That's wutt I want."

Rick: "Ahhhhh, No. I gotta sell them. I gotta be able to make money on these things. If I gave everybody who came in here what these items are worth, I'd be out of business by the end of the month. I got overhead. I got employees demanding pay. I got bills. No one's ever heard of Benjamin Franklin. He's a minor character in US history. He skinned puppies alive and wore their hides as slippers…etc…I'll give you $50.00"

Brainless: "Uh? $50??? That not even worth mah rad down here."

Rick: "Look, man. I'll go up to $100 but that's it. That's my final offer."

Bonehead: "$9000"

Rick: "$100"

Rocks-For-Brains: "$8000"

Rick: "$100"

Imbecile: "$7000"

Rick: "$100"

Beef-Witted: "$6000"

Rick: "$100"

Hebetate: "$2000 and some store trade. C'mon. The perfesser said they worth $10,000!"

Rick: "They are. No. $100"

Beetle-Headed, Grunting insufficiently_thoughtful_person: "Eh. Um. Er. Deh. Ok. A Hunnert."

Rick: "Cool! Let's go do some paperwork. CHUMLEE! Write him up!"

Since there's honor amongst thieves and apparently social pygmies, the deal is sealed by a handshake. The unbreakable bond of agreement and no "take-sies back-sies". Nothing like a handshake after a good beat down. I guess it's better than watching them air kiss.

"Mmwah-Mmwah"!

Back room after the deal goes down synopsis:

Rick: "These things are super rare and worth every penny my expert says they are! I'll have NO trouble selling them! Thank GOD for the public school system and lead paint chips!!! Hahahahahee!!!"

Parking lot epilogue. Dumb a*s trying to justify his stupidity and existence:

Doofus: "Yuh! I dinnit git wit I wah-nid. I wah-nid $10,000 (Rightfully so) but I settled for a hunnert. (Boob. Suck a shotgun.) I'm okay widdat. Essa hunnert I dent ha' before!"

You knuckle dragging insufficiently_thoughtful_person. Enjoy getting sodomized by a sand blaster for the rest of your life.

"Hyuk! Now I ha' some munny fer the blackjack tables."

Yeah. For about thirty seconds until the table wins and takes what's left of your dwindling life with the echoing "YOINK!" of finality.

[Gonzimodo]

3 hours ago, Robot Man said:

I put Walking Dead back on the rack because I thought the story was lame and the art suked...

Same here!  Luckily I kept hearing how good the series was and ordered the first six or seven issues on eBay when issue 1 was going for about $20. 

[KirbyJack]

I’ve got a fun uncle in Chicago that likes playing angles and taking shots. He’s called me about comic books twice. First, when the Keaton Bat Man movie was imminent. A collector friend of his reportedly sold Danny DeVito a pricey lot of golden age Bats and Tecs. My uncle wanted to know if those comics were really that valuable. I told him yes; he should buy some. He didn’t.

Second, probably with regret that he didn’t listen to me, he called to see if I could get him The Death of Superman.  I told him I could get him as many as he wanted, but not until next year. I ended up mailing him the one copy I bought. Which he still has, and we laugh about.

[Gonzimodo]

I remember when I first started collecting comics in the mid-80s, whenever I told someone that I did, the first question out of their mouth was always, "What's the most valuable one you have?" It always kind of grated on me that comics had value to "normies" only as an investment.  (This was back when people still thought that reading comics made you some kind of weirdo. )  So the idea that comics had some value as collectibles has been around at least as far back as I can remember.