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CGC/CCG to be sold...
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Started by carcrawfordfan,

459 posts in this topic

StarV100

StarV100

Posted
Posted
On 7/3/2021 at 9:09 PM, D84 said:

A startup company is a newly formed business with particular momentum behind it based on perceived demand for its product or service. The intention of a startup is to grow rapidly as a result of offering something that addresses a particular market gap.

CGC is not a newly formed company, and neither was Marvel, so comparing it to a startup is a false equivalency. 

Also, comparing CGC to Marvel is another false equivalency. Marvel was on the verge of collapse when Mr. Arad helped turn it around. CGC is very behind on turnaround times and has some serious quality control issues, but is nowhere near the state Marvel was in. CGC is booming right now.

So your comments make no sense in response to me.

But, I'm done here and moving on from this part of the discussion. 

Again, you are picking up on all the wrong things. CCG is a company founded by visionaries who transformed the industry but don't have a clue how to run a large operation. The business clearly got away on them. That's what I'm talking about. RARE is the visionary who can transform themselves into a successful operator of a complex business.

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StarV100

StarV100

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1 hour ago, miraclemet said:

Blackstone is in the business of optimizing profits. 
CGC has already done the first thing by bringing restoration/pressing in house. This was a delicate thing to do, that could have been very messy, but CGC made efforts to ensure a firewall between their pressing/restoring division and their grading division. 

Easy Blackstone initiative, push books to "add services" when they are submitted.

Bad Idea #1) When a book is submitted for grading that could benefit from a press, they suggest it to the submitter. It adds to total turnaround time, but increases revenue to CGC by getting more books into their pressing pipeline (based on Facebook there are lots of submitters who are unaware, or oblivious to pressing services, and probably would use them if they were "suggested". 

Bad Idea #2) The ebay, virtual evaluation revenue stream could be expanded. Why just have it through ebay? Why not direct thru CGC website? Virtual submittals for electronic assessments. Again, expanding a revenue stream, that can also stretch the current workforce unless they add staff (and hopefully train staff). Or how about go one step further. Dont wait for people to ask for evaluation of books, offer spontaneous ones on books that have lots of bids/watchers? And then build an incentive stream from the virtaul evaluations to physical submittals (credits from the virtual evaluations that get applied to physical submittals). 

Bad Idea #3) CGC is only involved in the early to mid part of a books lifecycle from publishing to collecting to encapsulating to selling. They could expand their role in both the early side (publishing>Collecting) and the late side (selling). On the early side they could expand on their direct from the printer encapsulation programs, or heck even look to move some of the printing onsite (so they can control the printing to ensure the minty-est of copies). They already do a little of this with Dynamic Forces, but what if they did it with actual publishers (DC, Marvel, Image) 

Bad Idea #4) Back to owning more of the collectible lifecycle. Why does CGC increase the value of a book (thru grading/encapsulating) without getting a bigger piece of that value increase? If they owned a sales/auction platform they could not only make money from grading but also a cut of the increased value. Conflict of interest? SURE. But remember Blackstone isnt in the "trusted partner" business, they're in the "make as much money as possible" business. So why not have CGC Auctions. A book can go from pressing, to grading/encapsulating right to the auction block with CGC taking a cut like the other auction houses. That way CGC gets to make money through the ENTIRE lifecycle of the collectible. 

So many bad ideas that could be implemented under the rationale of profits and market expansion... 

 

You must be a politician. You describe all these bad ideas of your own invention, ascribe them to someone, then decry that someone for potentially implementing your bad ideas. It's crazy, circular logic.

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StarV100

StarV100

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On 7/4/2021 at 2:55 PM, icefires said:

Drama queen here, back from the dead, as anticipated. I am not intimate with Blackstone, but I certainly know Apollo Global inside and out (Leon Black - some trivia - Leon purchased Edvard Munch's "The Scream"  in 2012 for 119.9 Million $). These two private equities are actually twins. Best of luck to the excellent comic book dealers/collectors here who have no clue as to how private equities function. Nothing is predictable.

That's true. We don't know how Blackstone will approach the management of this business. But we do know the current business model is creaking under its own weight.

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StarV100

StarV100

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4 hours ago, Prince Namor said:

It really isn't about what 'WE' want. As long as there is a market for 3rd party graded collectibles, there will be submissions. And I don't see that market dying anytime soon.

CGC's turnaround times were (are) horrible, did it slow their submissions down? No.

CGC's quality control was regularly called into question, did it slow their submissions down? No.

Depending on who you talk to, CGC's grading could be... inconsistent at times.... did it slow their submissions down? No.

If anything - the business has proven that you DON'T need to change these things in order to make money hand over fist.

Seems like the perfect business for a bigger dog to buy.

 

You suggest that submissions have not been impaired. I don't know where you get your data, but I do know several people, including myself, who have held back hundreds of books because the TAT isn't worth the wait. 

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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56 minutes ago, StarV100 said:

You suggest that submissions have not been impaired. I don't know where you get your data, but I do know several people, including myself, who have held back hundreds of books because the TAT isn't worth the wait. 

Submissions haven't been impaired. They're higher than they've ever been. That's why the TAT's are so bad. Just wait until convention season starts up again!

If I open a business that can handle x2 amount of business to run smoothly and I am CONSTANTLY at x4 and x5 amount of business... with no slow down... I'm not losing business - I'm handling all of the business I'm capable of. I COULD open another location... but...

Since most people who are holding books back, are simply waiting for TAT's to go down before they DO submit, why do anything? Most of those customers already made their decision that CGC is the only game in town (in regards to what they consider to be important to their own 3rd party grading needs), so CGC hasn't lost that business - they are simply handling so much business that people have to WAIT to give them even more business.

CGC has so much business that even after an alternative choice for 3rd party grading has opened up - and taken on business that has given THEM higher TAT's, the monstrous beast that is CGC STILL has longer than ever TAT's of their own. i.e. more business than they can handle. The money just keeps pouring in.

Anyone who has followed these boards for at least 10 years and seen every thread on JIM's and QC's and TAT's and etc. etc. etc.... what'd they learn from in?

Still plenty of money to be made on the CGC gravy train.

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jsilverjanet

jsilverjanet

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Prince Namor said:

It's been about the money for a long time.

Plenty of ways to still read and enjoy comics - even old ones - and never use CGC at all.

Hasn't it been proven time and time again that CGC or graded comics are still a small percentage of overall collections etc

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted
On 7/3/2021 at 5:44 PM, mattn792 said:

Based upon what?

I would venture to say as far as maximizing the potential of a grading service while maintaining standards that customers have become accustomed to.  Beckett's entire business is centered around the association of and grading of sports collectables.  When they took the reigns of CBCS they were bringing their knowledge and bankroll not merely as an investor but as a leader in the industry. 

Collectables grading is a new area for Blackstone so their experience is limited to the collecting patterns and practices of the investors.   While the outcome is yet to be determined, it can reasonably be argued that Beckett has more experience and knowledge in the area of a grading service on how to increase the success of their acquisition than Blackstone has with theirs. 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jsilverjanet said:

Hasn't it been proven time and time again that CGC or graded comics are still a small percentage of overall collections etc

Yes and no.

I would say that there are more Action Comics 1's, AF15's, and other big books that are graded than there are that are raw.  There has got to be some type of curve where the stronger the value is in an object the more likely that object will be evaluated by a third party to satisfy the concerns of both buyer and seller in a transaction. 

 

Translated... there is a lot more ungraded dreck changing hands out there than graded comics because there is a lot more dreck than valuable comics. 

Edited by Buzzetta
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miraclemet

miraclemet

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Posted
3 hours ago, StarV100 said:

That's true. We don't know how Blackstone will approach the management of this business. But we do know the current business model is creaking under its own weight.

can we make some assumptions based on how they've managed all of their other acquisitions?

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loboagain

loboagain

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Posted

I haven't seen this discussed yet but I might have missed it.  Is it possible that CGC shuts down on taking submissions ala PSA to get a handle on the backlog but keep certain aspects of submitting open and then re-open once TATs are a "manageable" level? What is managable I don't know but just throwing this out there as it could be a possiblity since CGC is under new ownership. I hope this doesn't happen.  What do you think will happen to the comic industry if CGC does shut down temporarily on taking submissions?

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cgcmod11

cgcmod11

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Posted

I just gave someone a no point warning for going around the "spoon" or unacceptable language  filter. I saw that he quoted someone else, who was obviously fast enough to change his post because I could not find it;)

Please don't test the filters.

I understand people are concerned, upset, uptight, worried, jumping for joy or maybe even all of the above. It's understandable, hopefully we will hear some specific news soon.

Meanwhile, please be respectful. :foryou:

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

Yes and no.

I would say that there are more Action Comics 1's, AF15's, and other big books that are graded than there are that are raw.  There has got to be some type of curve where the stronger the value is in an object the more likely that object will be evaluated by a third party to satisfy the concerns of both buyer and seller in a transaction. 

A couple of years ago there was a debate in... I believe Gold, where the point of how many copies of a AF #15 or Action #1 were out there graded vs raw, based upon the census... almost all of the old timers, including many big dealers like Gator, all believed that there were many more raw copies out there than graded. There's really no way to know for sure - but they were basing it on boardies they knew and customers they had - some of whom had never used CGC and had multiple copies of a AF #15 and didn't even want people KNOWING that owned the books. It's an interesting debate, but not one that I think anyone could actually prove one way or another.

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