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CGC/CCG to be sold...
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Started by carcrawfordfan,

459 posts in this topic

Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Prince Namor said:

A couple of years ago there was a debate in... I believe Gold, where the point of how many copies of a AF #15 or Action #1 were out there graded vs raw, based upon the census... almost all of the old timers, including many big dealers like Gator, all believed that there were many more raw copies out there than graded. There's really no way to know for sure - but they were basing it on boardies they knew and customers they had - some of whom had never used CGC and had multiple copies of a AF #15 and didn't even want people KNOWING that owned the books. It's an interesting debate, but not one that I think anyone could actually prove one way or another.

Still, I think the point was made that the more valuable the book, the more likely it is graded. 

But to also support what you say, I remember that conversation or one like it and remember also adding that the numbers for graded copies of certain books like Hulk 181, ASM 300 and AF15 might be more plentiful than believed due to the CPR game. 

Edited by Buzzetta
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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, StarV100 said:

That's true. We don't know how Blackstone will approach the management of this business. But we do know the current business model is creaking under its own weight.

You could say that practically about any tent pole grader in any collecting category, particularly during this pandemic. PSA had to suspend grading for crying out loud, and this was with Steve Cohen at the helm, and their parent Collectors Universe just announcing a few days ago that they acquired Goldin Auctions.

I'm far from being the person that this matters to, particularly in the context of the supposed refinements/improvements CGC might gain under this new ownership structure, but given the fact pattern of these private equity firms, every time I try to read the announcement, I keep reading their name as Headstone.

Edited by comicwiz
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NoMan

NoMan

Posted
Posted

This entire thread depresses me. As does the comics hobby at times as does my inability to just walk away from it at times. 
 

it reminds me of these secret audio recordings made by these guys of their loud elderly gay alcoholic upstairs neighbors. The recordings are called Shut Up Little Man  and I’m ashamed of these guys for making the recordings and I’m ashamed of the volatile gay fighting couple and I’m ashamed of myself for listening to the tapes. 

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Karl Liebl

Karl Liebl

Posted
Posted
On 7/5/2021 at 5:16 PM, loboagain said:

I haven't seen this discussed yet but I might have missed it.  Is it possible that CGC shuts down on taking submissions ala PSA to get a handle on the backlog but keep certain aspects of submitting open and then re-open once TATs are a "manageable" level? What is managable I don't know but just throwing this out there as it could be a possiblity since CGC is under new ownership. I hope this doesn't happen.  What do you think will happen to the comic industry if CGC does shut down temporarily on taking submissions?

We can all go back to the original days with no third party graders?  

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

My first experience with submissions now that Blackstone has taken over CGC

I know there have been some complaints about CGC's fee structure whereby they charge a percentage of the value of a comic to have the book graded. The concern was that the temptation to overgrade a book was there to gain the extra revenue.

CGC would occasionally 'bump' my fee if a book got a grade where the book was valued higher than the tier it was submitted in.

My position was that I didn't think CGC was really in a conflict of interest because they rarely bumped my books unless the value difference was significant.

That seems to have changed.

On my last sub, every book got a bumped increase in grading fees.

I'm not sure whether this system was in place or not, but I got a 'bump' email stating what all of my new fees would be for every single book I submitted.

This isn't a good or a bad thing, but it's a very noticeable difference to how fees were charged before.

And it makes sense. Blackstone is not in this for the love of the comics. They're in this for the money.

So I'd expect all changes to follow a similar pattern.

Now whether this reopens the 'independent 3rd party grading' conflict of interest of tying fees to grades, well that's a different discussion to be had.

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jcjames

jcjames

Posted
Posted
On 9/18/2021 at 3:35 PM, VintageComics said:

My first experience with submissions now that Blackstone has taken over CGC

I know there have been some complaints about CGC's fee structure whereby they charge a percentage of the value of a comic to have the book graded. The concern was that the temptation to overgrade a book was there to gain the extra revenue.

CGC would occasionally 'bump' my fee if a book got a grade where the book was valued higher than the tier it was submitted in.

My position was that I didn't think CGC was really in a conflict of interest because they rarely bumped my books unless the value difference was significant.

That seems to have changed.

On my last sub, every book got a bumped increase in grading fees.

I'm not sure whether this system was in place or not, but I got a 'bump' email stating what all of my new fees would be for every single book I submitted.

This isn't a good or a bad thing, but it's a very noticeable difference to how fees were charged before.

And it makes sense. Blackstone is not in this for the love of the comics. They're in this for the money.

So I'd expect all changes to follow a similar pattern.

Now whether this reopens the 'independent 3rd party grading' conflict of interest of tying fees to grades, well that's a different discussion to be had.

Sounds more like the discussion is over. CGC is clearly not "independent 3rd party". Never was, but now they're apparently flaunting it. 

 

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innocuous

innocuous

Posted
Posted
On 9/18/2021 at 3:35 PM, VintageComics said:

My first experience with submissions now that Blackstone has taken over CGC

I know there have been some complaints about CGC's fee structure whereby they charge a percentage of the value of a comic to have the book graded. The concern was that the temptation to overgrade a book was there to gain the extra revenue.

CGC would occasionally 'bump' my fee if a book got a grade where the book was valued higher than the tier it was submitted in.

My position was that I didn't think CGC was really in a conflict of interest because they rarely bumped my books unless the value difference was significant.

That seems to have changed.

On my last sub, every book got a bumped increase in grading fees.

I'm not sure whether this system was in place or not, but I got a 'bump' email stating what all of my new fees would be for every single book I submitted.

This isn't a good or a bad thing, but it's a very noticeable difference to how fees were charged before.

And it makes sense. Blackstone is not in this for the love of the comics. They're in this for the money.

So I'd expect all changes to follow a similar pattern.

Now whether this reopens the 'independent 3rd party grading' conflict of interest of tying fees to grades, well that's a different discussion to be had.

hm I wonder if the value calculation is based on the most recent HA sale? That would certainly get maximum value for CGC. 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
On 9/18/2021 at 7:19 PM, innocuous said:

hm I wonder if the value calculation is based on the most recent HA sale? That would certainly get maximum value for CGC. 

As far as I can tell, CGC uses whatever is currently on GPA for valuation. So if it hasn't made it's way to GPA then they won't use it.

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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

Posted
Posted
On 9/18/2021 at 5:35 PM, VintageComics said:

My first experience with submissions now that Blackstone has taken over CGC

I know there have been some complaints about CGC's fee structure whereby they charge a percentage of the value of a comic to have the book graded. The concern was that the temptation to overgrade a book was there to gain the extra revenue.

CGC would occasionally 'bump' my fee if a book got a grade where the book was valued higher than the tier it was submitted in.

My position was that I didn't think CGC was really in a conflict of interest because they rarely bumped my books unless the value difference was significant.

That seems to have changed.

On my last sub, every book got a bumped increase in grading fees.

I'm not sure whether this system was in place or not, but I got a 'bump' email stating what all of my new fees would be for every single book I submitted.

This isn't a good or a bad thing, but it's a very noticeable difference to how fees were charged before.

And it makes sense. Blackstone is not in this for the love of the comics. They're in this for the money.

So I'd expect all changes to follow a similar pattern.

Now whether this reopens the 'independent 3rd party grading' conflict of interest of tying fees to grades, well that's a different discussion to be had.

At what point in the process did they notify you of the bump in fee?

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
On 9/18/2021 at 7:33 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

At what point in the process did they notify you of the bump in fee?

After they were graded I got an accounting email notifying me of the bumps.

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted

One time, I sent in an Action #28 Detroit Trolley copy.  I placed it in a category of a fine minus price.  That's the grade given when I purchased it.  After it was graded, CGC called me and said it graded a 7.0  I gladly paid the difference.  

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