Does CGC really give priority by tiers? Doesn't look that way to me. 2 2

[VintageComics]

@sfcityduck

Ideally, in theory your points make sense but practically in the real world they don't always.

2 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

I also suspect you have seen plenty of CGC grades with which you disagreed. 

Sure, some are too tight and some are too loose but I don't understand how that relates to this discussion.

QC on mass production is something entirely different than individual performance.

[sfcityduck]

Just now, NewWorldOrder said:

 

Like I said why dont you apply to CGC and see if you can be a grader?  That would help them out right?

Childishness.  This is just a hobby to me.  My profession pays me more than CGC can afford.  Which does not mean I am ignorant of grading.  I started collecting 20 years prior to you.  I survived as a comic collector for decades without the crutch of CGC because it did not exist.  I appreciate what they do - being a trusted mediary that helps eliminate disputes over the grades of comics being sold - because it has real value.  But, there are many people who I would trust to grade comics other than "professional graders."  

[Deadpoolica]

[NewWorldOrder]

2 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

No.  That's just a question of conforming to a grading criteria.  The problem with grading is that it is not objective.  It is made up, and there has never been complete consensus.  CGC itself goes through hard and soft periods and grading varies at CGC with plenty of head scratchers.  But, CGC should have no problem training people up to conform to its criteria.  Because CGC has its own criteria, it does not have to worry about the lack of consensus as to grading criteria.  It just has to strive for internal consistency, and that's very teachable.  In many ways, they might be better off avoiding folks who have been longterm graders because they may not quite jive with CGC's views.

Grading is not subjective.  Only people that can't grade say that. 

The same grader does not grade soft one day and then harder the next.  Grading styles dont change.  If by chance you got the same grader forever for all your submissions and they are softer as you say then expect grades that are soft for the rest of your life and vice versa.  Now if your point is about everyone should be on the same page that we agree on, which I have been critical of CGC for that.  No one grader should differ out side of what CGC deems acceptable for all grading levels.  One guys 9.6 shouldn't be another's 9.4.  That we can agree on.  

 

[Jeffro.]

1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

That's what she said.

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

@sfcityduck

Sure, some are too tight and some are too loose but I don't understand how that relates to this discussion.

 

Because the great hidden in plain site truth of CGC is that it doesn't need the best graders in the world, it just needs graders that adhere closely enough to its consistent standards that the marketplace maintains trust in CGC.  And, frankly, CGC is so important to the market, that not even some of the laughable grades we saw the Promise books get is going to damage its reputation so much that it fall into the number 2 spot.  The biggest threat to CGC is disappointing customer demand, so hiring more graders and training them up to CGC standards is the obvious no-brainer business plan (and exactly what they have been doing).

[NewWorldOrder]

5 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Childishness.  This is just a hobby to me.  My profession pays me more than CGC can afford.  Which does not mean I am ignorant of grading.  I started collecting 20 years prior to you.  I survived as a comic collector for decades without the crutch of CGC because it did not exist.  I appreciate what they do - being a trusted mediary that helps eliminate disputes over the grades of comics being sold - because it has real value.  But, there are many people who I would trust to grade comics other than "professional graders."  

Exactly, so as someone who is a dealer and this is my living you aren't listening to others who do in fact do this for a living.

Cross training is very tough. 

There were many players prior to MJ and LeBron, what does that matter.  I dont care if you were born in 1850

Edited July 13, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[sfcityduck]

2 minutes ago, NewWorldOrder said:

Grading is not subjective.  Only people that can't grade say that. 

 

Sorry Moses, which god gave you the stone tablets?  Grading standards are by definition subjective because they are, quite literally, made up.  And they have evolved quite a lot over the history of the hobby. There is no one universal standard that all adhere to.  The entire value of CGC is that they market themselves as a consistent intermediary.  They make money off of the fact that grading is not objective.  Otherwise, there would have been no need for them. 

[comicdonna]

How about we tone it down a bit so I don't have to lock this thread.

[NewWorldOrder]

1 minute ago, comicdonna said:

How about we tone it down a bit so I don't have to lock this thread.

boring alert

Edited July 13, 2021 by NewWorldOrder

[Lazyboy]

3 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

If Economy and Modern are equal tiers, than Economy and Modern should have the same TATs if submission volume is equal.

Added key point. But I'm sure you already knew that and got that info from CGC.

[VintageComics]

3 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Because the great hidden in plain site truth of CGC is that it doesn't need the best graders in the world, it just needs graders that adhere closely enough to its consistent standards that the marketplace maintains trust in CGC.  And, frankly, CGC is so important to the market, that not even some of the laughable grades we saw the Promise books get is going to damage its reputation so much that it fall into the number 2 spot.  The biggest threat to CGC is disappointing customer demand, so hiring more graders and training them up to CGC standards is the obvious no-brainer business plan (and exactly what they have been doing).

You keep talking about things in finite terms and not in real life dynamics.

I agree with your point about the Promise grades and about their monopoly in the industry.

But if you hire too many people, too quickly and they aren't good enough that monopoly can slip into eroding CGCs reputation and their position in the hobby.

So you can't just run out and 'find and train' all of these imaginary people without finding the RIGHT people and training them PROPERLY or you run the risk of destroying the very thing you're trying to support.

And what you're being told is that it's not that easy to find the right people. train them properly and retain them for the long haul.

Anyway, I'm kinda stepping back from this convo. I think most points have been made.

[sfcityduck]

Just now, Lazyboy said:

Added key point. But I'm sure you already knew that and got that info from CGC.

CGC does not state that submission volume is a factor in the "first-in, first-out" policy.  Submission volume should not matter if they have adequate balancing of their staffng.

[VintageComics]

3 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

How about we tone it down a bit so I don't have to lock this thread.

This conversation has been going on for hours but amazing how moderation shows up as soon as I do.

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

You keep talking about things in finite terms and not in real life dynamics.

I agree with your point about the Promise grades and about their monopoly in the industry.

But if you hire too many people, too quickly and they aren't good enough that monopoly can slip into eroding CGCs reputation and their position in the hobby.

So you can't just run out and 'find and train' all of these imaginary people without finding the RIGHT people and training them PROPERLY or you run the risk of destroying the very thing you're trying to support.

And what you're being told is that it's not that easy to find the right people. train them properly and retain them for the long haul.

Anyway, I'm kinda stepping back from this convo. I think most points have been made.

I don't disagree with some of your practical points, and of course ensuring quality training would be paramount.  But, CGC is on a hiring binge, so they must think they can PROPERLY train people to adhere to their house standards.  I assume they are right, as that happens in many industries.  

[NewWorldOrder]

 

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

This conversation has been going on for hours but amazing how moderation shows up as soon as I do.

Comicdonna should know better

This is tame compared to the real fun days on the CGC boards.  

I Miss my old SOT self. 

[Lazyboy]

15 minutes ago, Jeffro. said:

That's what she said.

[VintageComics]

1 minute ago, NewWorldOrder said:

 

Comicdonna should know better

This is tame compared to the real fun days on the CGC boards.  

I Miss my old SOT self. 

I'm sure they're just responding due to people notifying.

I seem to attract a lot of well meaning notifiers.

[Buzzetta]

[Lazyboy]

6 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

CGC does not state that submission volume is a factor in the "first-in, first-out" policy.

 You've got to be kidding.