THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/5/2022 at 11:23 PM, Dr. Love said:

On 1/5/2022 at 9:41 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

if you say the MCU fanbase is 65% male, that means that 45% of the fanbase is female

progressive math!  it may not really equal 100%, but it feels so right to me!    

Aw Jeez, sorry for the crummy math. Believe it or not I'm supposed to be good at the subject.

On 1/5/2022 at 8:49 PM, drotto said:

they are trying to appeal to and grow the female audience, completely ignoring that 65% of the comic audience is and will always be male.

After a Google search, the only numbers I found that came close to this 65% male comic book reader number was the 2017 New York Comic Con Demographic Snapshot that said that 63% of fans who purchased comics and graphic novels were men. Another Google search will then find different numbers with a slightly more even split gender-wise. It doesn't really matter.

 A gender split of moviegoing fans of the MCU finds that it's something like 55% male, 45% female. As I've said, I know just as many female fans of the MCU as I do male fans, and very few of those female fans have ever read the comics. The new generation of MCU fans, the kids (like my partner's 11 year old niece) have never read the comics at all because kids don't really read new comic books these days. While Marvel Studios definitely keeps the comics fans in mind as it expands and grows the MCU, it doesn't make the stories just for them. Movie and television audience demographics and expectations have come a long way since the 1960s.

[▫️]

On 1/6/2022 at 4:28 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Captain Marvel will become a central figure in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

The problem with making these definitive statements (like Black Widow will save the theater industry) is that they come back on you and CapraArchipelago will call you out on it. Not me, I’m the good cop. Then you have to back-pedal with “I was wrong about Black Widow but… (wall of text follows that Mexico has to pay for).”

I mean its fine to be fanatical on a character, no one here is hating on the character of Captain Marvel, just her lukewarm first film. I love girl power movies like Mad Max Fury Road but Brie didn’t bring it like Charlize. 

[Bosco685]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:56 AM, ▫️ said:

The problem with making these definitive statements (like Black Widow will save the theater industry) is that they come back on you and CapraArchipelago will call you out on it. Not me, I’m the good cop. Then you have to back-pedal with “I was wrong about Black Widow but… (wall of text follows that Mexico has to pay for).”

I mean its fine to be fanatical on a character, no one here is hating on the character of Captain Marvel, just her lukewarm first film. I love girl power movies like Mad Max Fury Road but Brie didn’t bring it like Charlize. 

[▫️]

On 1/4/2022 at 10:19 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

This probably doesn't affect your interest whatsoever, but the Ant-Man movies are decent. The first one is particularly good IMO. Paul Rudd and Co. did a great job. I'd suggest a watch if you are ever looking for something to pass the time.

I completely agree with CapraAcapella. They are very fun flicks.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:27 AM, drotto said:

He just can't except Captain Marvel is the Last Jedi character of the MCU. The movie made a ton of money. A significant portion of the fans don't care for it. It has divided the fandom.

The IP of a devided fandom will eventually fall.

Last Jedi was a movie that had huge expectations as it continued the cliffhanger story from Force Awakens and would re-introduce Luke Skywalker after a 30+ year absence. And it didn't really divide Star Wars fans that much. Critics loved the movie. Fans for most part didn't like the movie. And why? Because it completely upended the story set up in Force Awakens and turned Luke Skywalker, the hero of the most beloved movie franchise of all time, from the New Hope to an old milk drinking curmudgeon. 

Captain Marvel had no expectations for fans as she was a new character. The only expectation was that she would be the saviour of Endgame and she really wasn't. She contributed for sure, but she didn't ultimately save the day. Stark did that.

MCU fans for the most part put Captain Marvel as a movie in the middle of the pack. Some like me have it at the top. Some have it at the bottom. The only reason the character is seen as divisive is because of the backlash against her by a horde of toxic male fans opposed to a woman taking over the MCU. To their credit, they were right to be afraid, because Captain Marvel will be taking over. The story that Marvel is setting up (beyond the magic stuff and the street level Disney+ stuff) will see to that.

Captain Marvel and Last Jedi are not comparable.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:45 AM, ▫️ said:

I completely agree with CapraAcapella. They are very fun flicks.

Scott Lang is also the Sexiest Man Alive.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Thankfully, female fans of the MCU are smarter than Marvel Studios initially gave them credit, and generally recognize the mediocrity of the character's current list of performances.

Changing it from a solo sequel to a team-up makes it seem like they recognize that there must be a better job done writing the character and/or surrounding her with a better environment to succeed.

I think that we would all enjoy a well-done version of Captain Marvel, kinda how we enjoyed the excellent job done by DC with Wonder Woman (though DC made a Captain Marvel mistake with WW84). Good writing sells characters.

Edited January 6, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I think that we would all enjoy a well-done version of Captain Marvel...

My pessimism to this occurring in The Marvels is the fact that Photon was very poorly done in WandaVision. You have 2 characters that need to be 'fixed'.

[Cat]

On 1/7/2022 at 12:53 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Last Jedi was a movie. And it didn't really divide Star Wars fans that much. 

Captain Marvel had no expectations for fans as she was a new character. The only expectation was that she would be the saviour of Endgame and she really wasn't. She contributed for sure, but she didn't ultimately save the day. Stark did that.

MCU fans for the most part put Captain Marvel as a movie in the middle of the pack. Some like me have it at the top. Some have it at the bottom. The only reason the character is seen as divisive is because of the backlash against her by a horde of toxic male fans opposed to a woman taking over the MCU. To their credit, they were right to be afraid, because Captain Marvel will be taking over. The story that Marvel is setting up (beyond the magic stuff and the street level Disney+ stuff) will see to that.

Captain Marvel and Last Jedi are not comparable.

Are you crazy? Last Jedi didn't divide the SW fandom? Whuh??? 

Your next part feels sleazy, the way you say Carol was a new character. New character on film, yes, but they generally retain some defining characteristics from their comics personalities and backstories. There were certainly some expectations, mostly be her existing comic fanbase. 

Yep, they got us good. The End of Infinity War made it seem like Captain Marvel would be a big deal come Endgame, when really, she did bugger all. Well played Marvel, you made the solo movie hit the billion mark as a result, but it was a bit dirty. 

I feel bad speaking for this 'most part' of the MCU. But I reckon they'd be placing it in the bottom quarter. And I'll let you enjoy your fanfic in peace. Don't forget to say hello to Chunky, your invisible monkey, when you're done. I heard you spanking him the other night. 

[drotto]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:53 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Last Jedi was a movie that had huge expectations as it continued the cliffhanger story from Force Awakens and would re-introduce Luke Skywalker after a 30+ year absence. And it didn't really divide Star Wars fans that much. Critics loved the movie. Fans for most part didn't like the movie. And why? Because it completely upended the story set up in Force Awakens and turned Luke Skywalker, the hero of the most beloved movie franchise of all time, from the New Hope to an old milk drinking curmudgeon. 

Captain Marvel had no expectations for fans as she was a new character. The only expectation was that she would be the saviour of Endgame and she really wasn't. She contributed for sure, but she didn't ultimately save the day. Stark did that.

MCU fans for the most part put Captain Marvel as a movie in the middle of the pack. Some like me have it at the top. Some have it at the bottom. The only reason the character is seen as divisive is because of the backlash against her by a horde of toxic male fans opposed to a woman taking over the MCU. To their credit, they were right to be afraid, because Captain Marvel will be taking over. The story that Marvel is setting up (beyond the magic stuff and the street level Disney+ stuff) will see to that.

Captain Marvel and Last Jedi are not comparable.

Again, name calling and defaulting to blaming toxicity as the explanation for why many people do not have the same affinity for a character that you do. For your narrative to be true, a minimum of 1/4 to 1/3 of the entire population would have to posses the qualities you are blaming for the dislike. That is exceedingly unlikely. I fully acknowledge a very small number of these people do exist with the qualities you keep bringing up and they are very obnoxious and vocal. I am offended by people like that also. The rest of us just do not share your views about certain characters, movies, motives, and possible direction the MCU is heading. You then take that small group and exaggerate and generalize it's importance in an attempt support your viewpoint, so you can avoid actually discussing it. If the person's opinion is not in line with yours, you use this to dismiss them rather then talking to and excepting that people can have differing viewpoints.  That fact is the vast majority of the people disagreeing with you are decent people, they just do not hold your opinion.

 

You also conveniently dismiss all the female characters, minority characters, and characters that are just plain different, that have been excepted and loved over many years in media.  In your narrow viewpoint, it has not been done until the MCU has done it.

[drotto]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:14 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

My pessimism to this occurring in The Marvels is the fact that Photon was very poorly done in WandaVision. You have 2 characters that need to be 'fixed'.

And the third character is one that can not keep an ongoing comic book series, that they have rebooted it 3 if not 4 times at this point, in an attempt to boost sales and popularity. Yes, the series is not out yet, and hopefully it will be good and bring a good new character into the MCU. But as I showed a few post ago (it may have been a different thread), the MCU shows are popular in streaming, but are not massively successful.  Netflix still basically owns streaming. Hawkeye is reported to have the lowest number of views for an MCU show yet, and did not crack the top streaming series of 2021. Plus, all the MCU shows to date have been based on established characters. So they should have somewhat of a built in fanbase. We have yet to see if any new characters introduced through streaming shows will be able to gain traction, and it is unknow if that can translate to box office sales. So placing this character in a film can not be said to be a draw at this point.

 

Sad part is I loved Carol Danvers when she was Ms Marvel like 15 years ago. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:42 AM, drotto said:

You also conveniently dismiss all the female characters, minority characters, and characters that are just plain different, that have been excepted and loved over many years in media.  In your narrow viewpoint, it has not been done until the MCU has done it.

For example, Wonder Woman was released 1 year earlier and was a tremendous success. One could even say that the great writing of her film set a precedent that Captain Marvel did not come close to matching.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

For example, Wonder Woman was released 1 year earlier and was a tremendous success. One could even say that the great writing of her film set a precedent that Captain Marvel did not come close to matching.

Wonder Woman: Wayne Gretzky

Captain Marvel: Brent Gretzky

[▫️]

On 1/6/2022 at 6:42 PM, drotto said:

You also conveniently dismiss all the female characters, minority characters, and characters that are just plain different, that have been excepted and loved over many years in media.  In your narrow viewpoint, it has not been done until the MCU has done it.

Have to quote this gem. Racial diversity in movies today is not some groundbreaking or risky proposition. Racial diversity portrayed on screen in the 1960’s took balls.

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by ▫️

[D84]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:16 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Wonder Woman: Wayne Gretzky

Captain Marvel: Brent Gretzky

One correction. 

Captain Marvel: Wayne Newton

[drotto]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:17 AM, ▫️ said:

Have to quote this gem. Racial diversity in movies today is not some groundbreaking or risky proposition. Racial diversity portrayed on screen in the 1960’s took balls.

 

The network refused to allow an overt inter-racial kiss on network TV.  The creators felt so strongly that the story needed it, and wanted to put out the message it entailed, they kept reshooting it from different angles until the censors said, OK.  That took a giant set of ones, and was a massive risk.  That is standing behind what you believe in, not what is being done today, where similar things are so common they are met with a shrug. Today doing it is for hollow accolades and transient headlines and is trivial in comparison.  Original Star Trek is not overly diverse by today's standards, but in the context of the time it was multiples more noteworthy, and groundbreaking. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by drotto

[Bosco685]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

For example, Wonder Woman was released 1 year earlier and was a tremendous success. One could even say that the great writing of her film set a precedent that Captain Marvel did not come close to matching.

The female audience reaction was much stronger towards Wonder Woman, which the MPAA noted as part of its domestic industry annual report. And at least with their reporting it doesn't come with a studio or franchise bias like other sources may apply.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:34 AM, Bosco685 said:

The female audience reaction was much stronger towards Wonder Woman, which the MPAA noted as part of its domestic industry annual report. And at least with their reporting it doesn't come with a studio or franchise bias like other sources may apply.

With WW84 regressing to CM's standards, maybe The Marvels will live up to WW17's standards...? Criss-cross apple sauce?

Edited January 6, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[drotto]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:34 AM, Bosco685 said:

The female audience reaction was much stronger towards Wonder Woman, which the MPAA noted as part of its domestic industry annual report. And at least with their reporting it doesn't come with a studio or franchise bias like other sources may apply.

Wonder Woman was and is an amazing film.  Perfect example of a character that is strong, powerful, and empowering, while at the same time still being portrayed as feminine and not as a man be written as a woman. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I think that we would all enjoy a well-done version of Captain Marvel, kinda how we enjoyed the excellent job done by DC with Wonder Woman (though DC made a Captain Marvel mistake with WW84). Good writing sells characters.

Captain Marvel made $1.1 billion dollars worldwide, basically curb stomping the original Wonder Woman's $800 million worldwide take . Though Captain Marvel is still growing her base of diehard fans, she still has a base of diehard fans. Kelly Clarkson recently told Hailee Steinfeld on her show that Captain Marvel is her favorite superhero. A lot of little girls are slowly jumping from the Wonder Woman boat over to the Captain Marvel boat. If there was any disappointment in the Captain Marvel character at all it was her limited showing in Avengers Endgame.

WW84 made made $166 million worldwide. The movie was nearly universally derided and Wonder Woman probably lost a lot of fans and street cred with general audiences. The character also rapes an innocent man whose identity is stolen by her dead boyfriend. WW84 was the main hope of a dying DC superhero movie universe and now that hope has dwindled to a slight flicker.

Captain Marvel was a success. WW84 was a complete and utter failure. They are not comparable.

Edited January 6, 2022 by @therealsilvermane