THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[Artboy99]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:25 PM, Randall Dowling said:

 

Respectfully, I think that's a weird interpretation of the movie.  I understand the logic you're using but I think it's wrongly considered.  

If you look for demons, you will surely find them.

the real issue is the horrible writing of the film that puts Diana in a position she would never be. They stray from who her character is and the entire travesty is done solely to have Chris Pine return in the film. Terrible movie that should never have been made.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:26 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Why do we assume he was in hell?  They don't say that and he's not a bad person...

I was just joking about the Hel thing. Yes it’s not specified where Steve’s spirit was. Maybe it wasn’t really Steve but Diana’s memory of him like in WandaVision.

Edited January 7, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

What Diana did in WW84 was essentially the same thing Wanda did in WandaVision, entrap a non-consenting human being to fulfill her wish.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:42 AM, chrisco37 said:

On 1/7/2022 at 6:37 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I wish that Mike would change Silver's name to Logical Fallacies. That's all he's ever used in defense of CM and the MCU. Ad hominem, strawman, false equivalent, hasty generalization, etc.

I vote for "The Wokenss".   

It's kinda like The Weeknd.  But less fun.  

I use nothing but logic and evidence in my arguments and if I’m wrong I own up to it. I went to college.

And because I’m a Captain Marvel fan and I defend the character against haters that makes me “woke”? Sounds like toxic logic to me. 

I will say I’m woke in terms before the word was hijacked by the anti-SJW crowd and more in terms as it was used by hip hop culture of being aware that all is not right with the world and injustice is often perpetrated by those in charge.

 

[MetalPSI]

Yeah except woke is actually meant as a form of enlightenment about your state of being, which has never been seen in people using the term

[MetalPSI]

No people just want other people to shut up

Why has always baffled me

[D84]

The sad part about the woke movement is I agree with the message of equality, but abhor their tactics.

Brow beating does not change hearts and minds, it only makes them double down.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/7/2022 at 12:39 PM, D84 said:

The sad part about the woke movement is I agree with the message of equality, but abhor their tactics.

Brow beating does not change hearts and minds, it only makes them double down.

The "woke movement", as the anti-SJW crowd calls it, is a fallacy created by the same anti-SJW crowd. There is no organized movement forcing comic book companies and movie studios to force diversity into their content. There is no brow beating going on unless you want to call characters like Kamala Khan or Sam Wilson Captain America "brow beating."

If Marvel Studios made a Black Panther film it's not only because the character is a part of the Avengers mythos, it's also because Marvel recognized there was an African-American community hungry for a superhero movie starring a black superhero. If Marvel wants more Girl Power in the MCU, that's their choice. There's no organized group protesting outside Disney headquarters demanding more girl superheroes as this "woke movement" label seems to suggest.

[TupennyConan]

On 1/7/2022 at 12:39 PM, D84 said:

The sad part about the woke movement is I agree with the message of equality, but abhor their tactics.

Brow beating does not change hearts and minds, it only makes them double down.

Equality was to soften you up, get you onboard. You've been onboarded. Now equity will enjoy its revenge with a bit less difficulty.

[PopKulture]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:52 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I will say I’m woke in terms before the word was hijacked by the anti-SJW crowd and more in terms as it was used by hip hop culture of being aware that all is not right with the world and injustice is often perpetrated by those in charge.

But the woke are in charge of every column, so they are the ones perpetrating injustice by your own admission.

And hip-hop culture, yeah, like that’s not the most fertile ground for half a dozen -isms. For every scattered enlightened kernel, there are bushels of misogynistic and homophobic drivel. 

In truth, most of us dwell somewhere between the poles you outlined in the above statement. I don’t think because somebody finds the kool-aid a tad bitter or distasteful that they necessarily pitch their tents in the anti-SJW camp.  

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by PopKulture

[PopKulture]

On 1/7/2022 at 3:04 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

The "woke movement", as the anti-SJW crowd calls it, is a fallacy created by the same anti-SJW crowd. There is no organized movement forcing comic book companies and movie studios to force diversity into their content.
 

There's no organized group protesting outside Disney headquarters demanding more girl superheroes as this "woke movement" label seems to suggest.

Outside being the key word. Those self-congratulatory exercises happen from within.

True change can be organic and well-intended, yet often times it can be wrought with a careless and clumsy zeal that is so utterly obvious to everyone who lives outside the circle-jerk.

My two cents, anyway. Justly valid opinions will vary. 

[Randall Dowling]

On 1/7/2022 at 4:50 PM, PopKulture said:

True change can be organic and well-intended, yet often times it can be wrought with a careless and clumsy zeal that is so utterly obvious to everyone who lives outside the circle-jerk.

Agreed.  Righteousness may feel pretty good in the moment but it's a poor substitute for civility. 

[drotto]

On 1/7/2022 at 4:04 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

The "woke movement", as the anti-SJW crowd calls it, is a fallacy created by the same anti-SJW crowd. There is no organized movement forcing comic book companies and movie studios to force diversity into their content. There is no brow beating going on unless you want to call characters like Kamala Khan or Sam Wilson Captain America "brow beating."

If Marvel Studios made a Black Panther film it's not only because the character is a part of the Avengers mythos, it's also because Marvel recognized there was an African-American community hungry for a superhero movie starring a black superhero. If Marvel wants more Girl Power in the MCU, that's their choice. There's no organized group protesting outside Disney headquarters demanding more girl superheroes as this "woke movement" label seems to suggest.

There may not be an organization with a specified leader,  but there is certainly a culture which has developed where people are no longer allowed to speak freely or disagree without being dragged in public opinion.   

 

When certain things like comedy are dead (numerous successful comic have lamented this), because you tell one off color joke on a sensative topic, and people are waiting to destroy your career. 

 

When people are dredging up 5, 10, or 15 year old tweets and using those to silence people.

 

When in comics many old established characters are being given new traits, for no logical or story based lesion.

 

When the Oscar's are setting quotas to determine a films eligibility for awards.

 

This means there is tremendous pressure being exerted on entertainment to conform, and to silence certain voices. Even if there is no specific "group" forcing it. These "rules" ultimately limit creativity and individual freedoms. It also leads to a culture of conformity where no infractions are tolerated. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:32 AM, drotto said:

There may not be an organization with a specified leader,  but there is certainly a culture which has developed where people are no longer allowed to speak freely or disagree without being dragged in public opinion.   

 

When certain things like comedy are dead (numerous successful comic have lamented this), because you tell one off color joke on a sensative topic, and people are waiting to destroy your career. 

 

When people are dredging up 5, 10, or 15 year old tweets and using those to silence people.

 

When in comics many old established characters are being given new traits, for no logical or story based lesion.

 

When the Oscar's are setting quotas to determine a films eligibility for awards.

 

This means there is tremendous pressure being exerted on entertainment to conform, and to silence certain voices. Even if there is no specific "group" forcing it. These "rules" ultimately limit creativity and individual freedoms. It also leads to a culture of conformity where no infractions are tolerated. 

Sure, the careers of celebrities and sports figures being hurt by stupid tweets, episodes of sexual harassment, or breaking the law is a thing, and some of it is deserved like in the case of Roger Ailes or Louis CK, and some of it a little overboard like the case of James Gunn or even Roseanne Barr I think. With the advancement of technology like the internet and social media, communication also spreads faster. Being canceled isn't a new thing in society as it's happened since civilization was a thing ie being ostracized by a church or community for adultery or something.

Yes, the Oscars are totally guilty of leaving out actors, directors, and films of color when it came time for consideration of which films and people should be up for an award. There is no quota, though. Last year hardly any African-American actors or themed films where nominated. The Oscars are getting better at it though, primarily by having more Academy members being African-Americans or other ethnicity other than white.

Comic books aren't just fantasy escapism. They have also reflected real life as in the case of the drug issues of Amazing Spider-Man or the social issues of Green Lantern/Green Arrow. If Bobby Drake Iceman comes out as gay in the pages of X-Men, how is that not the same thing that comics have always done, reflecting real life? There doesn't have to be a reason for a character to come out as gay, just as there doesn't have to be a reason if one's own friend or relative were to come out as gay. It doesn't have to be seen as some kind of "woke agenda". When Steve Rogers handed the Shield over to Sam Wilson in the pages of Captain America, he did so because Sam has been his partner since the late 60's and was a worthy soldier. Who better, according to the ongoing story, to take up the Shield and represent America than Sam? It doesn't have to automatically be seen as a "woke agenda".

As the world becomes more globalized and connected, we can't escape our differences like in the old days. But we can respect those differences. Or not. When Marvel makes a superhero who happens to be a teenage Islamic Pakistani-American girl or a superhero comes out as gay, it's simply a reflection of the world we live in today. Comic books have always done that and it doesn't have to be seen as a "woke agenda." As someone posted above, if you go looking for demons you will most likely find them, whether they are actually there or not.

[drotto]

On 1/8/2022 at 11:09 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Sure, the careers of celebrities and sports figures being hurt by stupid tweets, episodes of sexual harassment, or breaking the law is a thing, and some of it is deserved like in the case of Roger Ailes or Louis CK, and some of it a little overboard like the case of James Gunn or even Roseanne Barr I think. With the advancement of technology like the internet and social media, communication also spreads faster. Being canceled isn't a new thing in society as it's happened since civilization was a thing ie being ostracized by a church or community for adultery or something.

Yes, the Oscars are totally guilty of leaving out actors, directors, and films of color when it came time for consideration of which films and people should be up for an award. There is no quota, though. Last year hardly any African-American actors or themed films where nominated. The Oscars are getting better at it though, primarily by having more Academy members being African-Americans or other ethnicity other than white.

Comic books aren't just fantasy escapism. They have also reflected real life as in the case of the drug issues of Amazing Spider-Man or the social issues of Green Lantern/Green Arrow. If Bobby Drake Iceman comes out as gay in the pages of X-Men, how is that not the same thing that comics have always done, reflecting real life? There doesn't have to be a reason for a character to come out as gay, just as there doesn't have to be a reason if one's own friend or relative were to come out as gay. It doesn't have to be seen as some kind of "woke agenda". When Steve Rogers handed the Shield over to Sam Wilson in the pages of Captain America, he did so because Sam has been his partner since the late 60's and was a worthy soldier. Who better, according to the ongoing story, to take up the Shield and represent America than Sam? It doesn't have to automatically be seen as a "woke agenda".

As the world becomes more globalized and connected, we can't escape our differences like in the old days. But we can respect those differences. Or not. When Marvel makes a superhero who happens to be a teenage Islamic Pakistani-American girl or a superhero comes out as gay, it's simply a reflection of the world we live in today. Comic books have always done that and it doesn't have to be seen as a "woke agenda." As someone posted above, if you go looking for demons you will most likely find them, whether they are actually there or not.

I give you the Oscars new rules.

 

https://www.oscars.org/news/academy-establishes-representation-and-inclusion-standards-oscarsr-eligibility

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/8/2022 at 12:05 PM, drotto said:

I give you the Oscars new rules.

 

https://www.oscars.org/news/academy-establishes-representation-and-inclusion-standards-oscarsr-eligibility

Okay, so there's a small quota in a large arena of nominations for an Oscar i.e. from a choice of 20 Best Actor or Supporting Actor nominations, ONE must be non-white. I don't see a big deal in that and I don't think there's anything wrong in that unless one goes looking for demons in it. Most likely that one actor from twenty actor nominations who is non-white will deserve to be there as there is so much content nowadays and so many African-American or non-white actors who are able to now find work these days. But yes, I kind of see your point in that there is an actual Oscars inclusion standard which I didn't know existed.

[Bosco685]

Quote

Ms. Marvel is rumored to be getting some extensive reshoots this month. Ms. Marvel News on Twitter clarified reports from Atlanta Filming concerning the reshoots. In addition to those accounts, My Cosmic Circus' Lizzie Hill talked about the size and scope of the reshoots, and they're said to be "pretty substantial."

 

What does all of this mean for Ms. Marvel? Well, at the moment it's too close to call. But, it would seem that the creative team wants to fine-tune some things. It would be hard to talk about the reshoots and and edits without mentioning the social media discussion around Kamala's powers in the show.

 

[paperheart]

straight to Disney+

[drotto]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:04 PM, Bosco685 said:

 

This and Dr Strange both reported as getting extensive reshoots.  Is this in response to the success of Spider-Man and the underwhelming response to how other facets of the MCU over in the past year?  

Edited January 9, 2022 by drotto

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:18 PM, drotto said:

This and Dr Strange both reported as getting extensive reshoots.  Is this in response to the success of Spider-Man and the underwhelming response to how other facets of the MCU over in the past year?  

I'm not sure what lessons from the success of Spider-Man No Way Home would apply to Multiverse of Madness and Ms. Marvel. No Way Home was an ultimate fan service film combining the actors from three separate Spider-Man franchises over 20+ years into one big mashup crossover movie. It's the Endgame of Spider-Man movies. That was the reason for the appeal and the hype of No Way Home and why everybody in the world is going to see it. Doctor Strange and Ms. Marvel do not have 20+ years of beloved movies, franchises, and different actors playing the same hero to mash up into one movie. They are essentially "new" characters in the MCU. Reshoots for DS2 and MM are not so Marvel Studios can copy some kind of formula from NWH and apply it.

Kevin Feige and Co. have stated that reshoots are part of the MCU process. They start with a screenplay, but because of the hard schedule, they often make things up throughout the shooting process, improvising at times along the way, making adjustments to the screenplay, and then allow time for reshoots. These reported reshoots for DS2 and MM can be assumed to be just part of the MCU process.

If there must be speculation for a reason for reshoots for DS2 and MM, one possible reason for DS2 could be due to recent news stories that Marvel had to remove mentions of Shuma Gorath from the story over copyright reasons. Perhaps Marvel will instead elevate another villain to make up for it like D'Spayre reportedly. Reports of DS2 bombing with a test audience are just hearsay that is being pushed by folks like Grace Randolph on YouTube who has a history of pushing hyped up false information.

As Ms. Marvel ties directly into The Marvels (along with Secret Invasion), it makes sense to delay that show to a date closer to The Marvels' release date. Perhaps Marvel wants to tweak Kamala's onscreen powers as they reportedly differ from her embiggen powers in the comics and reportedly are more like Green Lantern? I imagine giving Kamala powers more akin to Green Lantern would look better cinematically as the embiggen powers could possibly look too silly in live-action and be similar to Reed Richards who is coming soon.

Edited January 9, 2022 by @therealsilvermane