THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:39 AM, drotto said:

Wonder Woman was and is an amazing film.  Perfect example of a character that is strong, powerful, and empowering, while at the same time still being portrayed as feminine and not as a man be written as a woman. 

Even if the gender percentage breakdown between WW and CM which you presented is correct, CM made $1.1 billion dollars. WW made $820 million worldwide. If you factor in the percentage of women who saw each film, Captain Marvel still made more money from women audience members than Wonder Woman did, about $60 million more. So more women went to see Captain Marvel than they did Wonder Woman.

[Broke as a Joke]

I believe this marvel team up event would be better placed as a Disney+ series rather than a movie.  I think Marvel is going to learn from these recent MCU mistakes and focus on the A-listers from now on theatrically after seeing the success of Spider-man.  

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:16 AM, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Are you crazy? Last Jedi didn't divide the SW fandom? Whuh??? 

Your next part feels sleazy, the way you say Carol was a new character. New character on film, yes, but they generally retain some defining characteristics from their comics personalities and backstories. There were certainly some expectations, mostly be her existing comic fanbase. 

Yep, they got us good. The End of Infinity War made it seem like Captain Marvel would be a big deal come Endgame, when really, she did bugger all. Well played Marvel, you made the solo movie hit the billion mark as a result, but it was a bit dirty. 

I feel bad speaking for this 'most part' of the MCU. But I reckon they'd be placing it in the bottom quarter. And I'll let you enjoy your fanfic in peace. Don't forget to say hello to Chunky, your invisible monkey, when you're done. I heard you spanking him the other night. 

Stay classy, Mecha_Fantastic.

Anyway...fans weren't fighting over the quality of Last Jedi as a movie. For the most part, Star Wars fans were nearly universally disappointed in Last Jedi, mostly because it ditched the story of Force Awakens and the way it treated Luke Skywalker. Irony is best left out of the Star Wars franchise.

Carol Danvers Captain Marvel was a brand new character in the MCU. She had no previous setups from a previous movie, other than her logo appearing in the Infinity War credit scene, so there were no story expectations for her. She was a blank slate. The Last Jedi was not a blank slate. There were big story expectations from that movie and audiences were let down, for the most part, because the sequel never really followed through on what was promised in Force Awakens.

Captain Marvel was hugely important to the Avengers mission in the beginning and the end of Endgame, but she mattered not at all when it came to the character stories of Endgame. It was still cool seeing her do her part to help save the universe, but I can see why Marvel wanted to focus the human story on the original Avengers team for this film.

Edited January 6, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:42 AM, drotto said:

Again, name calling and defaulting to blaming toxicity as the explanation for why many people do not have the same affinity for a character that you do. For your narrative to be true, a minimum of 1/4 to 1/3 of the entire population would have to posses the qualities you are blaming for the dislike. That is exceedingly unlikely. I fully acknowledge a very small number of these people do exist with the qualities you keep bringing up and they are very obnoxious and vocal. I am offended by people like that also. The rest of us just do not share your views about certain characters, movies, motives, and possible direction the MCU is heading. You then take that small group and exaggerate and generalize it's importance in an attempt support your viewpoint, so you can avoid actually discussing it. If the person's opinion is not in line with yours, you use this to dismiss them rather then talking to and excepting that people can have differing viewpoints.  That fact is the vast majority of the people disagreeing with you are decent people, they just do not hold your opinion.

Since Carol Danvers took the Captain Marvel name in 2012, she became public enemy #1 for the ComicsGate movement which was opposed to diversity and progressivism in the American comic book industry. Kamala Khan, Jane Foster Thor, Bobby Drake (Iceman) coming out as gay, and Sam Wilson Captain America were also attacked by ComicsGate.

Way before Captain Marvel was released in theaters, the hate campaign against Captain Marvel had already begun on social media and on YouTube through ComicsGate supporting channels like The Quartering and Geeks and Gamers. The Alita Challenge was propogated online asking fans to go see Alita Battle Angel instead of Captain Marvel on her opening weekend. The Challenge went viral after journalist Jack Posobiec retweeted the challenge. Rotten Tomatoes was bombarded with about 100,000 1 star reviews before the movie was ever released. 

 I myself had arguments with friends on Facebook and such about the whole Captain Marvel thing and I know they weren't comic book readers. The anti-Captain Marvel/Brie Larson movement (before her movie even released) had gone beyond comic book movie fandom and entered the realm of polit**s.

It wasn't just a small group of obnoxious trolls.

Toxicity is the major reason there was so much loud hate directed at Captain Marvel and Brie Larson. 

It was all some pretty evil sh*t as far as I'm concerned.

 

[drotto]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:10 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Captain Marvel made $1.1 billion dollars worldwide, basically curb stomping the original Wonder Woman's $800 million worldwide take . Though Captain Marvel is still growing her base of diehard fans, she still has a base of diehard fans. Kelly Clarkson recently told Hailee Steinfeld on her show that Captain Marvel is her favorite superhero. A lot of little girls are slowly jumping from the Wonder Woman boat over to the Captain Marvel boat. If there was any disappointment in the Captain Marvel character at all it was her limited showing in Avengers Endgame.

WW84 made made $166 million worldwide. The movie was nearly universally derided and Wonder Woman probably lost a lot of fans and street cred with general audiences. The character also rapes an innocent man whose identity is stolen by her dead boyfriend. WW84 was the main hope of a dying DC superhero movie universe and now that hope has dwindled to a slight flicker.

Captain Marvel was a success. WW84 was a complete and utter failure. They are not comparable.

But CM had the massive advantage of being placed between Infinity War and Endgame. Marvel using the last scene of IW led everyone to believe that CM would be essential to understanding Endgame.  It was basically a bait and switch (granted masterful marketing).  Wonder Woman came on the heals of a series of poorly received and underperforming DC movies, that likely limited it's box office potential. It had to stand on it's own, CM was handed a golden pedestal.

 

You claim Wonder Woman is losing young fans are jumping to CM, based on what a handful of celebrities have said? Hailee Steinfeld, employed by and contracted to the MCU is going to give you an honest answer.  Show me your real data that little girls are jumping to CM? You can't state things like that as fact with nothing except a few pieces of anecdotal evidence to back it up. This is my anecdotal evidence, I see tons of Wonder Woman costumes at Halloween and WW shirts almost every day, I see a small fraction of CM. So based on that WW is way more popular. In my theater when Thanos decked CM, the audience cheered. I would also argue the Gal Gadot is one of the most bankable stars around, the public loves her.  She is one of the few celebrities that can actually drive numbers anymore. Not seeing that love for Bree Larson.

 

I do agree that WW84 was complete trash, one of the most disappointing sequels I have ever seen. It deserved to fail. But we are comparing 1st movies to 1st movies.  WW has better critic and audience scores then CM. It had a much steeper hill to climb (especially if you take all the failed WW movies into account), and I would argue has more staying power.  Granted WW 84 likely has damaged that significantly.

[MAR1979]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:10 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Captain Marvel made $1.1 billion dollars worldwide, basically curb stomping the original Wonder Woman's $800 million worldwide take . Though Captain Marvel is still growing her base of diehard fans, she still has a base of diehard fans. Kelly Clarkson recently told Hailee Steinfeld on her show that Captain Marvel is her favorite superhero. A lot of little girls are slowly jumping from the Wonder Woman boat over to the Captain Marvel boat. If there was any disappointment in the Captain Marvel character at all it was her limited showing in Avengers Endgame.

WW84 made made $166 million worldwide. The movie was nearly universally derided and Wonder Woman probably lost a lot of fans and street cred with general audiences. The character also rapes an innocent man whose identity is stolen by her dead boyfriend. WW84 was the main hope of a dying DC superhero movie universe and now that hope has dwindled to a slight flicker.

Captain Marvel was a success. WW84 was a complete and utter failure. They are not comparable.

I'm a huge WW Fan and the movie was disservice  to the character if not all humanity.  Just how was that the steaming pile of excrement the -script Time-Warner chose?

WW1984 may have destroyed what was shaping up to have been DC's most lucrative film franchise.

To Geoff Johns - Stargirl is excellent, truly excellent in fact, possible the best superhero TV show ever IMHO,  but your vast hubris (and or cash grab) may have destroyed the perception of a Wonder Woman Motion Picture for a generation to come. So thanks for nothing!

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by MAR1979

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:31 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

I believe this marvel team up event would be better placed as a Disney+ series rather than a movie.  I think Marvel is going to learn from these recent MCU mistakes and focus on the A-listers from now on theatrically after seeing the success of Spider-man.  

Theory: If Spider-Man No Way Home only featured Tom Holland's Peter Parker and some new villain instead of featuring three franchises of Spider-Mans and villains all coming together, I'm not sure Spider-Man No Way Home would have even reached $800 million worldwide factoring in the pandemic surge and the China Marvel boycott.

[drotto]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:55 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Since Carol Danvers took the Captain Marvel name in 2012, she became public enemy #1 for the ComicsGate movement which was opposed to diversity and progressivism in the American comic book industry. Kamala Khan, Jane Foster Thor, Bobby Drake (Iceman) coming out as gay, and Sam Wilson Captain America were also attacked by ComicsGate.

Way before Captain Marvel was released in theaters, the hate campaign against Captain Marvel had already begun on social media and on YouTube through ComicsGate supporting channels like The Quartering and Geeks and Gamers. The Alita Challenge was propogated online asking fans to go see Alita Battle Angel instead of Captain Marvel on her opening weekend. The Challenge went viral after journalist Jack Posobiec retweeted the challenge. Rotten Tomatoes was bombarded with about 100,000 1 star reviews before the movie was ever released. 

 I myself had arguments with friends on Facebook and such about the whole Captain Marvel thing and I know they weren't comic book readers. The anti-Captain Marvel/Brie Larson movement (before her movie even released) had gone beyond comic book movie fandom and entered the realm of polit**s.

It wasn't just a small group of obnoxious trolls.

Toxicity is the major reason there was so much loud hate directed at Captain Marvel and Brie Larson. 

It was all some pretty evil sh*t as far as I'm concerned.

 

This response proves my point.  No discussion and demonizing people instead of excepting there may be legitimate criticisms and different opinions. Generalizing the actions of a small group, and making them way more powerful and influential than they are.  How does a small group of people on the internet have the power and/or resources to overcome mass media, and a company with massive pockets like Disney?  For that to make any sense, it means the average fan, the average person is horrible.     

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:57 PM, drotto said:

Wonder Woman came on the heals of a series of poorly received and underperforming DC movies, that likely limited it's box office potential. It had to stand on it's own, CM was handed a golden pedestal.

Wonder Woman has been a major comic book hero since World War Two. She was a fan favorite character of the 70's Superfriends cartoon and had a hit live action TV show in the late 70's. Wonder Woman is one of DC's Big Three along with Superman and Batman. She was one of the few good things of Batman v Superman. And you're saying the Wonder Woman movie had to stand on its own?

Nobody in the general audience had barely a clue who this Captain Marvel character was other than a logo on Nick Fury's pager and then a google search afterwards.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 2:03 PM, drotto said:

This response proves my point.  No discussion and demonizing people instead of excepting there may be legitimate criticisms and different opinions. Generalizing the actions of a small group, and making them way more powerful and influential than they are.  How does a small group of people on the internet have the power and/or resources to overcome mass media, and a company with massive pockets like Disney?  For that to make any sense, it means the average fan, the average person is horrible.     

In the end it didn't. The Alita Challenge failed miserably. Captain Marvel made $1.1 billion worldwide and shattered expectations. People want to see a good movie and good story and Captain Marvel was just part of that great story that Marvel was telling.

It still doesn't make the hate that's been directed at the Captain any more palpable or disturbing. I knew the CM hate got out of hand when a close relative, who wasn't a comics reader just a MCU fan, started giving me grief about Captain Marvel and Brie Larson off info he got from the internet, again, before the movie had even been released. 

[Finhead]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:30 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Captain Marvel made $1.1 billion worldwide and shattered expectations. People want to see a good movie and good story and Captain Marvel was just part of that great story that Marvel was telling.

 

Really? Did you watch this movie without your rose colored Marvel goggles on?  Brie has the acting range of a 2X4 in this movie. Only reason it made the money it did was Marvel hyped it up to be a key watch for Endgame.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 2:34 PM, Finhead said:

Really? Did you watch this movie without your rose colored Marvel goggles on?  Brie has the acting range of a 2X4 in this movie. Only reason it made the money it did was Marvel hyped it up to be a key watch for Endgame.

I've seen Captain Marvel over a dozen times. I didn't need rose colored Marvel goggles to enjoy it. I liked the buddy road trip aspect of the movie and found it to be a nice breath of fresh air and a distraction from the very depressing and melancholy Avengers Infinity War and its aftermath. I thought the plot was tightly told in three acts and I appreciated that it didn't deviate too far into a side story or long action scene as a lot of of MCU films had been doing. I thought the dialogue was clever enough and humorous in the right parts. I thought Brie Larson (who won an Oscar for Best Acting as a reminder) was charming in the role. In comparison, I actually thought ScarJo was a little wooden in Black Widow. I thought Brie was very natural in Captain Marvel and played the part in a very naturalistic way (although I understand directing and shot editing choices have a lot to do with what appears on screen). 

I didn't go into Captain Marvel determined to love the movie. I don't work that way. In comparison, I didn't care for Ant-Man and the Wasp that much. I liked it, didn't love it. I was ready to be objective about Captain Marvel as well going into it, and was relieved that when it was over, that I genuinely loved the movie.

[chrisco37]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:10 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Captain Marvel made $1.1 billion dollars worldwide, basically curb stomping the original Wonder Woman's $800 million worldwide take . Though Captain Marvel is still growing her base of diehard fans, she still has a base of diehard fans. Kelly Clarkson recently told Hailee Steinfeld on her show that Captain Marvel is her favorite superhero. A lot of little girls are slowly jumping from the Wonder Woman boat over to the Captain Marvel boat. If there was any disappointment in the Captain Marvel character at all it was her limited showing in Avengers Endgame.

WW84 made made $166 million worldwide. The movie was nearly universally derided and Wonder Woman probably lost a lot of fans and street cred with general audiences. The character also rapes an innocent man whose identity is stolen by her dead boyfriend. WW84 was the main hope of a dying DC superhero movie universe and now that hope has dwindled to a slight flicker.

Captain Marvel was a success. WW84 was a complete and utter failure. They are not comparable.

  Come on, man.  Really?  

She was banging "Steve". 

[drotto]

On 1/6/2022 at 3:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I've seen Captain Marvel over a dozen times. I didn't need rose colored Marvel goggles to enjoy it. I liked the buddy road trip aspect of the movie and found it to be a nice breath of fresh air and a distraction from the very depressing and melancholy Avengers Infinity War and its aftermath. I thought the plot was tightly told in three acts and I appreciated that it didn't deviate too far into a side story or long action scene as a lot of of MCU films had been doing. I thought the dialogue was clever enough and humorous in the right parts. I thought Brie Larson (who won an Oscar for Best Acting as a reminder) was charming in the role. In comparison, I actually thought ScarJo was a little wooden in Black Widow. I thought Brie was very natural in Captain Marvel and played the part in a very naturalistic way (although I understand directing and shot editing choices have a lot to do with what appears on screen). 

I didn't go into Captain Marvel determined to love the movie. I don't work that way. In comparison, I didn't care for Ant-Man and the Wasp that much. I liked it, didn't love it. I was ready to be objective about Captain Marvel as well going into it, and was relieved that when it was over, that I genuinely loved the movie.

I 100% respect that you love this movie.  I respect your devotion to the MCU.  All I ask is that you respect people on these forums and in the broader public that do not share your love for CM and the extent of your love for the MCU. At times you bring up valid arguments for your point if view.  But just as often, you feel the need to accuse people of having detestable tendencies and views, looking for scapegoats with little to no evidence.   Instead of bolstering your arguments, it makes you come across as petulant and irrational. The vast majority, if not everyone here, that argues against you does not hourbor these views you feel compelled to bring up.

 

Our oppinions are allowed to be different without having some nepharious underpinnings. Please, stop claiming otherwise.

[Larryw7]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:17 AM, ▫️ said:

Have to quote this gem. Racial diversity in movies today is not some groundbreaking or risky proposition. Racial diversity portrayed on screen in the 1960’s took balls.

 

African American female and gay Latino male.

[djzombi]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:31 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

I believe this marvel team up event would be better placed as a Disney+ series rather than a movie.  I think Marvel is going to learn from these recent MCU mistakes and focus on the A-listers from now on theatrically after seeing the success of Spider-man.  

You do remember there was a time when it was a case of "Guardians of..what?  What is Marvel thinking by not sticking to their A-listers!"

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:57 PM, drotto said:

But CM had the massive advantage of being placed between Infinity War and Endgame. Marvel using the last scene of IW led everyone to believe that CM would be essential to understanding Endgame.  It was basically a bait and switch (granted masterful marketing).

By the way, it wasn't a bait and switch. You did need to see the Captain Marvel movie in order to understand how and why Nick Fury would have called her at the end of Infinity War and to understand what she brought to the table and why when she arrived to give the Avengers an assist in Endgame. Had you not seen the Captain Marvel movie, you might be like "who is the glowing flying lady and why does she care?"

[MAR1979]

On 1/6/2022 at 3:47 PM, djzombi said:

You do remember there was a time when it was a case of "Guardians of..what?  What is Marvel thinking by not sticking to their A-listers!"

I was one of them. Guardians 1 changed my mind as it was very enjoyable and fun to watch and made a boatload. Eternals however was boring nearly unintelligible (sorry Jack, I am still a huge fan of yours though)  comic book and a boring somewhat intelligible film.  I have no desire to see Eternals or Black Knight ever again in the MCU. Guardians on the other hand, as long as it's not a yawn-fest slog like Guardians 2, I am all for seeing.  

Edited January 6, 2022 by MAR1979

[paperheart]

On 1/6/2022 at 8:39 AM, drotto said:

Wonder Woman was and is an amazing film.  Perfect example of a character that is strong, powerful, and empowering, while at the same time still being portrayed as feminine and not as a man be written as a woman. 

the first two acts of WW were infinitely superior to CM; the final third was just as bad

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/6/2022 at 3:30 PM, drotto said:

I 100% respect that you love this movie.  I respect your devotion to the MCU.  All I ask is that you respect people on these forums and in the broader public that do not share your love for CM and the extent of your love for the MCU. At times you bring up valid arguments for your point if view.  But just as often, you feel the need to accuse people of having detestable tendencies and views, looking for scapegoats with little to no evidence.   Instead of bolstering your arguments, it makes you come across as petulant and irrational. The vast majority, if not everyone here, that argues against you does not hourbor these views you feel compelled to bring up.

 

Our oppinions are allowed to be different without having some nepharious underpinnings. Please, stop claiming otherwise.

Tell you what. When folks stop accusing films like Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Shang-Chi, and Eternals of being SJW or whatever you want to call it you know what I mean, I'll stop accusing folks of being toxic. I'd love to talk about films on the basis of their story and relation to the comics alone.