THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[Gatsby77]

On 9/13/2022 at 2:24 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Textbook false equivalence, dude. It's not even close to an accurate comparison.

Considering that paging CM was the last thing Nick Fury did in Marvel's best movie guaranteed that it was going to make $1 billion. The only thing that could have changed this is if the trailers sucked, which they didn't.

You're right. 

It's nowhere close to an accurate comparison - because Captain Marvel did 80% more revenue in domestic box office alone than Justice League.

But it's not a false equivalence:

DC absolutely expected Justice League Part 1 to do $1+ billion worldwide - even after BvS fell short of $900 million.

But it's revisionist history - asserted well after the fact - to say Captain Marvel was *expected* to do $1 billion from the jump.

It was no more expected pre-release than the idea that folks legit expected Black Panther to do $1+ billion.

[musicmeta]

On 9/13/2022 at 12:17 PM, thegiftedone45 said:

Lets remember they released it a month or two BEFORE Avengers Endgame and talked about her being important to that movie. A lot of people like myself didn't watch it for her but because it was going to be connected to Endgame.

Wow...Looks like everybody "only" watched Captain Marvel because of the Avengers Endgame tie in.  One watch and done at the theatre.....all the the way to a Billion dollar box office movie. Interesting. 
The four folks sitting in front me clapped their hands when it ended...so I stand corrected...That should make five of us that actually liked the movie.  Still a far cry from a lot of people enjoying the movie. 

[musicmeta]

On 9/13/2022 at 12:22 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It was sandwiched between Infinity War and Endgame, of which the former had a post-credit scene where Nick Fury paged the title character. It was going to make $1 billion no matter what.

How 'bout that...Just tie in a lousy movie between Infinity War and Endgame and...Poof!...Instant Billion dollar box office.  The Captain Marvel movie could get so lucky! Everybody in the theatre just had to dislike it..
If most people did happen to like it,  then maybe we are talking about a ten Billion dollar box office bonanza! Oh my! 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/13/2022 at 3:25 PM, Gatsby77 said:

You're right. 

It's nowhere close to an accurate comparison - because Captain Marvel did 80% more revenue in domestic box office alone than Justice League.

But it's not a false equivalence:

DC absolutely expected Justice League Part 1 to do $1+ billion worldwide - even after BvS fell short of $900 million.

But it's revisionist history - asserted well after the fact - to say Captain Marvel was *expected* to do $1 billion from the jump.

It was no more expected pre-release than the idea that folks legit expected Black Panther to do $1+ billion.

Yes, it is a false equivalence, for multiple reasons, but these are the biggest ones:

• Justice League was the 5th film of the DCEU.
• The DCEU doesn't have the same audience.
• Wonder Woman didn't have a Thanos-type destroy the world.
• Wonder Woman didn't have a post-credit scene hyping up a character to save them from a tragedy.

Nothing you're saying on this subject makes a lick of logical sense. You're wrong.

You're also wrongly assuming that it was "expected" to make $1 billion. It was going to make that regardless of expectations. That's reality.

Edited September 14, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/13/2022 at 4:32 PM, musicmeta said:

How 'bout that...Just tie in a lousy movie between Infinity War and Endgame and...Poof!...Instant Billion dollar box office.  The Captain Marvel movie could get so lucky! Everybody in the theatre just had to dislike it..
If most people did happen to like it,  then maybe we are talking about a ten Billion dollar box office bonanza! Oh my! 

Hyperbole isn't your friend in this instance.

[Gatsby77]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:41 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Yes, it is a false equivalence, for multiple reasons, but these are the biggest ones:

• Justice League was the 5th film of the DCEU.
• The DCEU doesn't have the same audience.
• Wonder Woman didn't have a Thanos-type destroy the world.
• Wonder Woman didn't have a post-credit scene hyping up a character to save them from a tragedy.

Nothing you're saying on this subject makes a lick of logical sense. You're wrong.

You're also wrongly assuming that it was "expected" to make $1 billion. It was going to make that regardless of expectations. That's reality.

You can keep trying, but math - and reality - doesn't lie.

As Musicmeta pointed out...Captain Marvel doesn't get to $426 million domestic -- outdoing:

• Wonder Woman
• Deadpool
• Star Wars: Episode 9
• Spider-Man: Far From Home
• Joker
• BvS
• Captain America: Civil War

unless *many* people who saw it then liked it enough to watch it in the theater more than once.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:42 AM, Gatsby77 said:

You can keep trying, but math - and reality - doesn't lie.

As Musicmeta pointed out...Captain Marvel doesn't get to $426 million domestic -- outdoing:

• Wonder Woman
• Deadpool
• Star Wars: Episode 9
• Spider-Man: Far From Home
• Joker
• BvS
• Captain America: Civil War

unless *many* people who saw it then liked it enough to watch it in the theater more than once.

Right; Reality doesn't lie. Such as the reality that people like me pre-ordered 2 showings not knowing the lack of quality the film would provide.

Captain Marvel was going to make $1 billion no matter what.

[theCapraAegagrus]

You keep ignoring context to fit your narrative that CM is good. $$$$$ does not equal quality. I don't know how many times the Transformers movies must be used as a clear example of this. It's a tired story that's been debunked countless times in the Captain Marvel thread.

[Gatsby77]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:56 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You keep ignoring context to fit your narrative that CM is good. $$$$$ does not equal quality. I don't know how many times the Transformers movies must be used as a clear example of this. It's a tired story that's been debunked countless times in the Captain Marvel thread.

Nah - I'm just offering a counter-weight to the repeated assertions by a small but vocal minority here that the film sucked - and, more specifically, that Brie Larsen's acting in it was sub-par.

Neither is true.

More importantly, the film doesn't need defending by me, Silvermane or anyone else

Its results - an A Cinemascore ranking by moviegoers and $1.1+ billion box office - speak for themselves. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:16 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Nah - I'm just offering a counter-weight to the repeated assertions by a small but vocal minority here that the film sucked - and, more specifically, that Brie Larsen's acting in it was sub-par.

Neither is true.

More importantly, the film doesn't need defending by me, Silvermane or anyone else

Its results - an A Cinemascore ranking by moviegoers and $1.1+ billion box office - speak for themselves.

Overall quality is a matter of opinion (when discussing art). By and large (not a "minority"), Captain Marvel is considered a mediocre film, of which Brie Larson's title character is largely considered to be the weakest element.

Again, money is not equal to quality. It was going to make bank no matter what. And making bank doesn't reflect quality writing; See the Transformers series. Or, better yet, look at quality movies that did not make bank.

The amount a movie makes is objective; It's qualities being criticized are subjective. The majority subjective opinion on Captain Marvel is that the movie is not good, and that the character is not well-written.

Edited September 14, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[theCapraAegagrus]

I'm glad that we've accepted the fact that her character was not very well-written and moved onto financials, though.

[Bosco685]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:16 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Nah - I'm just offering a counter-weight to the repeated assertions by a small but vocal minority here that the film sucked - and, more specifically, that Brie Larsen's acting in it was sub-par.

Neither is true.

More importantly, the film doesn't need defending by me, Silvermane or anyone else

Its results - an A Cinemascore ranking by moviegoers and $1.1+ billion box office - speak for themselves. 

Right? Because it is rare that an MCU movie gets an 'A' CinemaScore. Even films like Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk and Age of Ultron landed in the A's.

 

[MetalPSI]

Ultron was good

[Bosco685]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:12 PM, The Meta said:

Ultron was good

Your 'Ugh' card has been revoked. But you have been issued a temporary 'Burp' card.

[MetalPSI]

On 9/14/2022 at 2:15 PM, Bosco685 said:

Your 'Ugh' card has been revoked. But you have been issued a temporary 'Burp' card.

I'll agree, it didn't deserve an "A" but 3/4 of that list doesn't either

[Mystafo]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:22 AM, Gatsby77 said:

If you can't see why and how Iron Man 3 was far superior to the likes of:

• Iron Man 2
• GOTG 2
• Thor 2

etc. - I can't help you.

Oh - and did you get this butt-hurt when in Batman Begins Ra's al Ghul turned out to be an Irish dude?

And I like all of these better than IM3...Thor 2 is juuuust atop it in the bowl, though.

[Bosco685]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:17 PM, The Meta said:

I'll agree, it didn't deserve an "A" but 3/4 of that list doesn't either

Honestly, I had a decent time with Age of Ultron. Especially that final scene between Vision and Ultron. So perfectly handled in the end where the slave destroys the master.

 

[Straw-Man]

that was handled expertly.

[Gatsby77]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:11 PM, Bosco685 said:

Right? Because it is rare that an MCU movie gets an 'A' CinemaScore. Even films like Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk and Age of Ultron landed in the A's.

 

?

I'm confused.

Are you saying that Cinemascore - which polls movie-watchers on their thoughts right after they've seen a film, is somehow corrupt?

I'm also perplexed that you think this list might represent some sort of "gotcha" - because the bulk of the films listed were really good.

 

And - I know quality =/= box office success (Fast & the Furious, Transformers, yada yada) BUT

There seems to be a solid corollary between the grades shown - and their box office success. (Again - because people tend to see films they like more than once in the theater)

First, I'm pretty sure only one of those films (Incredible Hulk) flat-out bombed.

Second, count the $1 billion-grossers - 6/11 - more than half that list...without even including Captain Marvel or Black Panther.

Third, Iron Man didn't make much money comparatively, but it came out in 2008 and was the # 2 domestic grosser of the year - and arguably set the MCU in motion. So I'd argue audiences didn't hate it, either.

[Bosco685]

On 9/14/2022 at 5:33 PM, Gatsby77 said:

?

I'm confused.

Are you saying that Cinemascore - which polls movie-watchers on their thoughts right after they've seen a film, is somehow corrupt?

I'm also perplexed that you think this list might represent some sort of "gotcha" - because the bulk of the films listed were really good.

 

And - I know quality =/= box office success (Fast & the Furious, Transformers, yada yada) BUT

There seems to be a solid corollary between the grades shown - and their box office success. (Again - because people tend to see films they like more than once in the theater)

First, I'm pretty sure only one of those films (Incredible Hulk) flat-out bombed.

Second, count the $1 billion-grossers - 6/11 - more than half that list...without even including Captain Marvel or Black Panther.

Third, Iron Man didn't make much money comparatively, but it came out in 2008 and was the # 2 domestic grosser of the year - and arguably set the MCU in motion. So I'd argue audiences didn't hate it, either.

There seems to be a solid correlation - but then inserts disclaimer about The Incredible Hulk. Fantastic!

And then post-massive success of Iron Man (2008) the follow-up brought in much less money.

And then Captain America: The First Avenger only broke even.

Are we being a little disingenuous with the term 'really good' as in those cases the audiences weren't blindly excited yet. They picked up on stories that didn't seem to connect.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Bosco685