THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[jcjames]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:44 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

People don't like Brie Larson for the exact reason as her personality in that interview. She's insufferable.

 

[Bosco685]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:26 PM, PovertyRow said:

See there? You ignored that part of my post! 

You are aware how rapidly Disney Marketing jumps on these things to ensure there is no negative with their productions? To the point they cut off a major newspaper (L.A. Times) from attending movie previews until the industry called out Disney to lift its ban.

Even when Don Cheadle responded to the guy that went to see Avengers: Endgame 201X "isn't there another movie you'd like to go see" once fans reacted negatively to the post it got yanked.

Brie Larson was adamant she did all her own stunts. Then had to change the story. There is no logic to that situation. Other than how people reacted negatively to the statement after it came out YES, she had stunt doubles.

[PovertyRow]

On 9/12/2022 at 4:31 PM, Bosco685 said:

You are aware how rapidly Disney Marketing jumps on these things to ensure there is no negative with their productions?

I am aware that fielding is involved. This IS Hollywood, after all. In the mid 70s I was actually an AP for a production company so I got a few distasteful tastes of duplicity etc. It is why I quit the field.  Nowadays I do not have the inside edge. I don't have the actual facts, just what I can watch, listen to or read. And when those facts are contradicted (and not just by Disney Marketing) then I make my own judgements. When I seek out full videos as opposed to altered ones I make my own judgement. I tend to be a peaceful person who tries to see the good in others. But I see no good in the level of hatred (and yes it often manifest itself as hatred) over this. Just watch some of the videos with the edited/altered clips and listen to the rage the presenters display ($$$) and then the comments from the "followers" (more $$$). It is truly inane but many just eat it up because scandal can be delicious.  

PS - the "haters gotta hate" was not directed at you but at the youtubers/followers I was talking about. 

[Bosco685]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:49 PM, PovertyRow said:

PS - the "haters gotta hate" was not directed at you but at the youtubers/followers I was talking about. 

Thank you for noting that. As that ill-placed statement did come across the wrong way.

I've watched the full interviews (including the videos posted above). I've seen the wack jobs too manipulating interview spots. Including one guy that tried to convince his viewers THE ENTIRE INFINITY WAR CAST hates Brie Larson. Like she stole all their lunches.

Cool you enjoyed the movie. Others didn't. It is what it is. 

[PovertyRow]

On 9/12/2022 at 5:12 PM, Bosco685 said:

Cool you enjoyed the movie. Others didn't. It is what it is. 

I'll drink to that! 

[▫️]

On 9/13/2022 at 3:12 AM, Bosco685 said:

Thank you for noting that. As that ill-placed statement did come across the wrong way.

I've watched the full interviews (including the videos posted above). I've seen the wack jobs too manipulating interview spots. Including one guy that tried to convince his viewers THE ENTIRE INFINITY WAR CAST hates Brie Larson. Like she stole all their lunches.

Cool you enjoyed the movie. Others didn't. It is what it is. 

Brie Larson aside, they could have replaced her with my favorite actress and the movie would still suck. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/12/2022 at 3:59 PM, Gatsby77 said:

I still disagree with the hate Brie Larson got from a lot of folks on here for her performance.

Folks complained she was too arrogant, a "Mary Sue" or didn't have enough of a character arc - with growth and change.

To the last point - well, then you just weren't paying attention.

But to the first two points:

She was a U.S. Military pilot - and (along with her partner) one of the first women to hit that rank - the arrogance is deserved.

Perfect parallel: Phoenix in Top Gun: Maverick

Similarly arrogant, not much of an arc - because she was introduced as one of the "best of the best" and ultimately lived up to it, despite having to ditch her jet at one point due to bird strike.

Monica Barbaro played Phoenix in Top Gun: Maverick exactly as Brie Larson played Carol Danvers in Captain Marvel - yet Larson gets hate for her characterization.

She has no weaknesses and is magically great at everything. She's a textbook Mary Sue and that's why people don't like, and don't connect, with her character. Let's not pretend that something is there when it objectively isn't.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/12/2022 at 4:33 PM, Bosco685 said:

I had such high hopes for my enjoying Captain Marvel. Especially since I liked Brie Larson's other performances.

I bet I watched this teaser more than 20 times, as the soundtrack and visuals got me so hyped.

Unfortunately, the movie itself missed the mark for me. 

The CM trailers were actually pretty good and gave it great hype, even with the "HER-O" stuff (which I thought was clever, albeit cheesy and too on-the-nose).

Edited September 13, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:19 PM, PovertyRow said:

I never claimed it was "just youtubers". I was TALKING ABOUT youtubers. Big difference. BTW - do some searches about "How does Don Cheadle feel about Brie Larson" and similar. Try to wade though the The whole thing is blown totally out of proportion. 

Now I do not understand: it is a negative that she said she did all her own stunts. Is it a negative she would bring her stunt doubles on stage and introduce them to everyone??? She has explained the stunt double thing but of course people ignore that or discard it. Many in the Avengers cast have actually come to her defense but again people do not want to hear that. 

As far as ET goes, they are a CBS video tabloid who don't do what they do for free. After all, they ARE a business first and foremost. 

But as they say: "haters gonna hate".  

I can't post it here due to NSFW language but folks should also check out the Between Two Ferns with Brie Larson bloopers. Makes her seem a bit more human. 

Tell me what you think about her response to the question of , "How long will you be playing Captain Marvel?" This will be interesting...

[Bosco685]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:15 PM, PovertyRow said:

I'll drink to that! 

[Gatsby77]

On 9/13/2022 at 6:47 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

She has no weaknesses and is magically great at everything. She's a textbook Mary Sue and that's why people don't like, and don't connect, with her character. Let's not pretend that something is there when it objectively isn't.

No - she has few weaknesses because, by the time we meet her, she's already a decorated Air Force fighter pilot - and one of the first women to have reached that rank. She simply exhibits all the skill, cockiness and arrogance inherent in that position - like meeting Wonder Woman in the beginning of 1984, when she's already been functioning in her superhero role for 70+ years.

However, we later learn that - to get there, to reach that level of skill and confidence she has when we first meet her, Danvers endured having been put down, knocked down, belittled and told "no" throughout 90% of her journey, from her early childhood, through flight school, and even in her Vers persona during training by Yon-Rogg.

And it has taken a large psychic toll, because deep down - she *still* doesn't believe she's worthy - doesn't have the true inner confidence to recognize the full extent of her powers and defeat the inhibitor chip that had been holding her back from realizing her true nature. Only once she does so does she have the ability to:

a) defeat Yon-Rogg

b) truly become Captain Marvel

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Gatsby77

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:38 AM, Gatsby77 said:

No - she has few weaknesses because, by the time we meet her, she's already a decorated Air Force fighter pilot - and one of the first women to have reached that rank. She simply exhibits all the skill, cockiness and arrogance inherent in that position - like meeting Wonder Woman in the beginning of 1984, when she's already been functioning in her superhero role for 70+ years.

However, we later learn that - to get there, to reach that level of skill and confidence she has when we first meet her, Danvers endured having been put down, knocked down, belittled and told "no" throughout 90% of her journey, from her early childhood, through flight school, and even in her Vers persona during training by Yon-Rogg.

And it has taken a large psychic toll, because deep down - she *still* doesn't believe she's worthy - doesn't have the true inner confidence to recognize the full extent of her powers and defeat the inhibitor chip that had been holding her back from realizing her true nature. Only once she does so does she have the ability to:

a) defeat Yon-Rogg

b) truly become Captain Marvel

She doesn't have any weaknesses because she's a Mary Sue.

Showing a handful of flashbacks of her getting told "no" by male figures is bad writing, if that's all you have for "character development".

Correct, once the magical computer chip is removed she is an even bigger Mary Sue. We're not given an inkling of understanding as to how she can control (or lose control) of said power.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Captain Marvel's powers have shown to have seemingly no limitations, because the audience is never clued into what she can do or how. She can apparently teleport through space, tank shots using some 'shield', fly through any material, project photon beams, etc etc etc. Being a top-notch pilot doesn't make you adept at any of those things. Had she been given an Iron Man suit, those skills would be meaningful.

Edited September 13, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[Gatsby77]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:52 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Captain Marvel's powers have shown to have seemingly no limitations, because the audience is never clued into what she can do or how. She can apparently teleport through space, tank shots using some 'shield', fly through any material, project photon beams, etc etc etc. Being a top-notch pilot doesn't make you adept at any of those things. Had she been given an Iron Man suit, those skills would be meaningful.

This analysis only fits if you ignore her entire Vers persona - that, just like we meet the human Danvers well into her decorated career as a fighter (and test fighter) pilot, we also meet her years into her career as a Kree space warrior.

So it makes absolute sense that she'd adapt to her new powers quickly - they were a natural extension of her existing space fighting (and hand-to-hand combat) skills.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:05 AM, Gatsby77 said:

This analysis only fits if you ignore her entire Vers persona - that, just like we meet the human Danvers well into her decorated career as a fighter (and test fighter) pilot, we also meet her years into her career as a Kree space warrior.

So it makes absolute sense that she'd adapt to her new powers quickly - they were a natural extension of her existing space fighting (and hand-to-hand combat) skills.

Exactly. We meet her in her 'prime' because the movie forewent any character development. That's exactly the problem.

So, I cannot take anyone seriously on this subject if they pretend to not understand why people don't connect with or like Captain Marvel. She doesn't have a character arc. With no character arc and no likeable personality, how or why should someone feel compelled to care about her? She's not nice to anyone in the movie with rare exceptions for Fury and Maria/Monica. The moment people started adoring Tony Stark? The way he treated Yinsen.

Edited September 13, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[Gatsby77]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:12 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Exactly. We meet her in her 'prime' because the movie forewent any character development. That's exactly the problem.

So, I cannot take anyone seriously on this subject if they pretend to not understand why people don't connect with or like Captain Marvel. She doesn't have a character arc.

So...did you also dislike The First Blood because by the time we meet him, John Rambo is already a skilled survivalist and assassin?

Ditto Dutch in Predator - is he a Gary Sue because he's functionally invincible from the moment we meet him leaving the helicopter smoking a stogie?

You're faulting the story for picking up in a non-traditional place - when the hero is already well-versed in her powers - both as a human fighter pilot and intergalactic warrior.

Just because it's not the traditional superhero origin story (mere mortal is gifted with extraordinary powers and must come to terms with them to come into their own) doesn't make it any less compelling.

Captain Marvel also underscores how bad Green Lantern was - in that Reynolds played Hal Jordan largely for laughs - with literal wide-eyed wonder as he discovered the extent of his powers.

Absolutely not - the Hal Jordan I grew up in the comics was an arrogant - and (largely) deservedly so. Imagine how much better the Green Lantern movie would have been if it had been say...Tom Cruise playing Jordan as he played Maverick - or even (per the 12 years ago fan-casting) Nathan Fillion playing him straight as the arrogant, self-assured cocky test pilot he always was.

[Bosco685]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:20 AM, Gatsby77 said:

So...did you also dislike The First Blood because by the time we meet him, John Rambo is already a skilled survivalist and assassin?

Ditto Dutch in Predator - is he a Gary Sue because he's functionally invincible from the moment we meet him leaving the helicopter smoking a stogie?

You're faulting the story for picking up in a non-traditional place - when the hero is already well-versed in her powers - both as a human fighter pilot and intergalactic warrior.

Just because it's not the traditional superhero origin story (mere mortal is gifted with extraordinary powers and must come to terms with them to come into their own) doesn't make it any less compelling.

Captain Marvel also underscores how bad Green Lantern was - in that Reynolds played Hal Jordan largely for laughs - with literal wide-eyed wonder as he discovered the extent of his powers.

Absolutely not - the Hal Jordan I grew up in the comics was an arrogant - and (largely) deservedly so. Imagine how much better the Green Lantern movie would have been if it had been say...Tom Cruise playing Jordan as he played Maverick - or even (per the 12 years ago fan-casting) Nathan Fillion playing him straight as the arrogant, self-assured cocky test pilot he always was.

Sorry - I just had this scene flash by

Now do Iron Man 3 and what a genius move the Mandarin twist turned out to be.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:20 AM, Gatsby77 said:

So...did you also dislike The First Blood because by the time we meet him, John Rambo is already a skilled survivalist and assassin?

Ditto Dutch in Predator - is he a Gary Sue because he's functionally invincible from the moment we meet him leaving the helicopter smoking a stogie?

You're faulting the story for picking up in a non-traditional place - when the hero is already well-versed in her powers - both as a human fighter pilot and intergalactic warrior.

Just because it's not the traditional superhero origin story (mere mortal is gifted with extraordinary powers and must come to terms with them to come into their own) doesn't make it any less compelling.

Captain Marvel also underscores how bad Green Lantern was - in that Reynolds played Hal Jordan largely for laughs - with literal wide-eyed wonder as he discovered the extent of his powers.

Absolutely not - the Hal Jordan I grew up in the comics was an arrogant - and (largely) deservedly so. Imagine how much better the Green Lantern movie would have been if it had been say...Tom Cruise playing Jordan as he played Maverick - or even (per the 12 years ago fan-casting) Nathan Fillion playing him straight as the arrogant, self-assured cocky test pilot he always was.

No, I'm faulting the story for giving the audience little-to-no reason to care about Carol Danvers as a person or a "hero". She doesn't have a journey. All she does is discover that she can power-scale higher, and does it.

It's not uncompelling because it's not traditional, it's uncompelling because (again) the story offers the audience little-to-no reason for us to care about Captain Marvel as a person.

Trying to compact the rest of the unrelated-movies commentary; I don't like Gary Sues, either. Look at GotG Vol 2, it's atrocious because it writes Star-Lord to be a Gary Sue. The difference is that we're given reasons prior to care about Peter Quill. GotG Vol 2 is still a bad narrative, even if we care about Star-Lord.

[drotto]

Still love how we were constantly told in CM,  that Carol showing and giving into her emotions was her weakness, when she had the emotional range of wood. But then, she gained full power by showing her emotions, while still visibly not displaying any real emotions. Ummm, OK.

[D84]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:31 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I don't like Gary Sues, either. Look at GotG Vol 2, it's atrocious because it writes Star-Lord to be a Gary Sue. The difference is that we're given reasons prior to care about Peter Quill. GotG Vol 2 is still a bad narrative, even if we care about Star-Lord.

Actually, I thought they made Quill completely unlikable in the second one. He was the reason I don't rewatch that one.