2022 GOLDEN AGE COMIC BOOK MARKET REPORT 8 8

[Mmehdy]

On 5/4/2022 at 6:09 PM, Robot Man said:

I guess one thing that has soured my enthusiasm is there seems to be as much or more attention drawn to the “investment potential” and high prices than for the pure enjoyment of the media itself. I guess I need to stay away from more of these threads. 

Bob the top books have always been expensive relative to time reference. Action 1 in 1973 was a ford mustang, my parents house was 50K today over 1 million. When I bought Action #1 for 3 times mint guide price which shook the comic book pricing structure that Bob Overstreet had created, there were investors then, many collectors buying duplicates of GA for resale or hold. The numbers are bigger Robo, I agree but this is not a suddenly new issue that has been in our Ga/SA comic book world. I will grant you the form is DIFFERENT...that is LLC's and hedge funds etc..have come in our comic book market, some very very recently and it has taken prices up considerably to levels which almost all true GA/SA comic book collectors cannot obtain.

 I clearly think the if you want to focus on any turning point of investment vs true comic book collectors, it was at the first CGC conference hosted by Bruce Hamilton, which was attend by a number of well known comic book individuals, including Jim H, Steve G, BB, etc. He was the initial spokesman for the CGC way been when. Within a couple of years he was OUT and totally against it...I think he put an article somewhere, maybe the Buyers Guide listing his objections to what this was doing to our GA/SA comic book world. We probably will never get the definitive statement as to what really happened, but thru my contacts I can speculate that he might of been promised some type of equity in the company which was not forthcoming, as well as being upset at some of the grades his book were getting, there were other factors which are better left alone that I am aware of. Suffice to say Bruce Hamilton was and will always be in my opinion of one of the great founding fathers who was taken way to early due to an hospital accident. But, that time to me ROBO was kind of the tipping point. If you had no third party grading, you would have to use your own eyes to grade or rely on an expert...so you be more likely to have a lot of  prior experiences as a collector and investor at the ground level of purchase. Today that is done for you and in many respects it was needed, with  unknown restoration, marred back covers, and other ways to create value that really was not there. The trade off is any Wall Street business can buy any GA/SA comic book as a commodity and really know anything else about the character or history etc.

Robo, time changes everything and everyone hopefully for the better, we have the advantage of living and breathing in the true beginning of GA/SA comic book collecting, like the "Wild West" of the early days of California...it will never be duplicated and will always hold a very special and dear part of my life to see 99% of the GA collectors being there for the pure enjoyment, well heck, we are still around and can remind our fellow board members that we are  STILL a true collecting community, whether you bought GA/SA off the newstand/Drug store, comic book store or the internet. One thing for sure Robo, it is exciting times as we head into the future in a increased velocity of world wide GA/SA comic book  collecting.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Mmehdy

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:40 PM, Mmehdy said:

Bob the top books have always been expensive relative to time reference. Action 1 in 1973 was a ford mustang, my parents house was 50K today over 1 million. When I bought Action #1 for 3 times mint guide price which shook the comic book pricing structure that Bob Overstreet had created, there were investors then, many collectors buying duplicates of GA for resale or hold. The numbers are bigger Robo, I agree but this is not a suddenly new issue that has been in our Ga/SA comic book world. I will grant you the form is DIFFERENT...that is LLC's and hedge funds etc..have come in our comic book market, some very very recently and it has taken prices up considerably to levels which almost all true GA/SA comic book collectors cannot obtain.

 I clearly think the if you want to focus on any turning point of investment vs true comic book collectors, it was at the first CGC conference hosted by Bruce Hamilton, which was attend by a number of well known comic book individuals, including Jim H, Steve G, BB, etc. He was the initial spokesman for the CGC way been when. Within a couple of years he was OUT and totally against it...I think he put an article somewhere, maybe the Buyers Guide listing his objections to what this was doing to our GA/SA comic book world. We probably will never get the definitive statement as to what really happened, but thru my contacts I can speculate that he might of been promised some type of equity in the company which was not forthcoming, as well as being upset at some of the grades his book were getting, there were other factors which are better left alone that I am aware of. Suffice to say Bruce Hamilton was and will always be in my opinion of one of the great founding fathers who was taken way to early due to an hospital accident. But, that time to me ROBO was kind of the tipping point. If you had no third party grading, you would have to use your own eyes to grade or rely on an expert...so you be more likely to have a lot of  prior experiences as a collector and investor at the ground level of purchase. Today that is done for you and in many respects it was needed, with  unknown restoration, marred back covers, and other ways to create value that really was not there. The trade off is any Wall Street business can buy any GA/SA comic book as a commodity and really know anything else about the character or history etc.

Robo, time changes everything and everyone hopefully for the better, we have the advantage of living and breathing in the true beginning of GA/SA comic book collecting, like the "Wild West" of the early days of California...it will never be duplicated and will always hold a very special and dear part of my life to see 99% of the GA collectors being there for the pure enjoyment, well heck, we are still around and can remind our fellow board members that we are  STILL a true collecting community, whether you bought GA/SA off the newstand/Drug store, comic book store or the internet. One thing for sure Robo, it is exciting times as we head into the future in a increased velocity of world wide GA/SA comic book  collecting.

It’s posts like this that make the boards special. For those of you who bought in when prices were sane, I’m happy for you. I’m trying to be nice here when I inform you It’s different for the rest of us. Yes, we have to concern ourselves with mundane things you needn’t concern yourselves with, things like going broke if we muck it up. It’s the price many of us pay just to get a seat at the table.

Edited May 7, 2022 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[tth2]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:40 PM, Mmehdy said:

Bob the top books have always been expensive relative to time reference. Action 1 in 1973 was a ford mustang, my parents house was 50K today over 1 million. When I bought Action #1 for 3 times mint guide price which shook the comic book pricing structure that Bob Overstreet had created, there were investors then, many collectors buying duplicates of GA for resale or hold. The numbers are bigger Robo, I agree but this is not a suddenly new issue that has been in our Ga/SA comic book world. 

Wow, I 100% agree with this, except that it’s not only top books that are always expensive at any given time.  I would say that almost every book is expensive / fully priced at any given time.

[tth2]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:14 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

It’s posts like this that make the boards special. I don’t understand the people who like to kick dirt on the opinions expressed here. Why are you even here? Maybe we should have a thread just for those who bought everything for a nickel 

Thanks for posting this.  We hear stories of collectors / boardies financing the purchase of a car, or their kids’ college, or a house, by selling comics.  How can we possibly begrudge them this financial windfall?

[Bronty]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:14 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

It’s posts like this that make the boards special. For those of you who bought in when prices were sane, I’m happy for you. I’m trying to be nice here when I inform you It’s different for the rest of us. Yes, we have to concern ourselves with mundane things you needn’t concern yourselves with, things like going broke if we muck it up. It’s the price many of us pay just to get a seat at the table.

I do agree with the POV that they've always been fully priced.

Yeah, 1972 it was easier to afford an Action 1.  But there was much less expectation of it being a liquid asset.    There was no ebay, no auction houses, etc.   

If you bought a golden age comic there wasn't this assumption you were going to be able to sell it for more in five years.   It was all new, and there was no history, no liquidity.   

 

 

Another way to look at it is that they've always sold to the most aggressive buyer, no?    So whomever, at the time, was the biggest fool in the eyes of everyone else, got the book.    

[Bronty]

On 5/3/2022 at 12:54 PM, Robot Man said:

I have only bought a small handful of GA books this year. A couple I really wanted and a few that were simply interesting at really good prices.

Could it be that after 50 years collecting, I am actually done? I bought most I really wanted years ago at really good prices. Not much I still want. Especially at todays prices. Seems like every day, I am priced out of the few I still want. I just don’t feel the passion or need anymore.

I have always been a “keeper” so I am just appreciating what I collect more than the burning need for more.

I do miss the “the thrill of the hunt” though. 

It is what it is.   I am in the same boat, not so much with comics but with video games.   I used to buy for $300 stuff that is now $150,000.   or $75 for stuff that is $100,000.   Etc etc etc.   50-100x what I was initially paying (twenty years ago) is the rule and not the exception.   1000x what I was initially paying on the key stuff.   

With those mental benchmarks and having owned pretty much everything once, I just can't pay what they go for anymore, even when I can afford.   Its just past what I want to pay, as you described, and when that happens, and you stop being able to (or wanting to) engage with the hobby by purchasing actively, you lose the passion as you said.    You're thinking about your collection less, you don't get the little dopamine hits from getting that item you didn't have, from getting one step closer to whatever collecting goal you were working on.    Instead, all that is gone and your interest starts to fade and you probably start looking at it a bit like a store of value rather than something you are excited by.   

It really does show that collecting is more about the journey than the destination because if the ride stops, the interest in the material wanes.     Once the journey's over, the destination isn't as interesting as you thought this whole time.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Bronty

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 5/9/2022 at 7:08 PM, Bronty said:

Another way to look at it is that they've always sold to the most aggressive buyer, no?    So whomever, at the time, was the biggest fool in the eyes of everyone else, got the book.    

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 5/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Bronty said:

It really does show that collecting is more about the journey than the destination because if the ride stops, the interest in the material wanes.     Once the journey's over, the destination isn't as interesting as you thought this whole time.

Sage observation. Soulful advice

[tth2]

On 5/10/2022 at 7:19 AM, Bronty said:

It really does show that collecting is more about the journey than the destination because if the ride stops, the interest in the material wanes.     Once the journey's over, the destination isn't as interesting as you thought this whole time.

This is as good a summation as I've ever read! 

[Bronty]

Thanks Tim.   Its been on my mind of late. 

[fishbone]

On 5/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Bronty said:

It is what it is.   I am in the same boat, not so much with comics but with video games.   I used to buy for $300 stuff that is now $150,000.   or $75 for stuff that is $100,000.   Etc etc etc.   50-100x what I was initially paying (twenty years ago) is the rule and not the exception.   1000x what I was initially paying on the key stuff.   

With those mental benchmarks and having owned pretty much everything once, I just can't pay what they go for anymore, even when I can afford.   Its just past what I want to pay, as you described, and when that happens, and you stop being able to (or wanting to) engage with the hobby by purchasing actively, you lose the passion as you said.    You're thinking about your collection less, you don't get the little dopamine hits from getting that item you didn't have, from getting one step closer to whatever collecting goal you were working on.    Instead, all that is gone and your interest starts to fade and you probably start looking at it a bit like a store of value rather than something you are excited by.   

It really does show that collecting is more about the journey than the destination because if the ride stops, the interest in the material wanes.     Once the journey's over, the destination isn't as interesting as you thought this whole time.

 

 

yes, this !

[Mmehdy]

On 5/9/2022 at 4:19 PM, Bronty said:

It is what it is.   I am in the same boat, not so much with comics but with video games.   I used to buy for $300 stuff that is now $150,000.   or $75 for stuff that is $100,000.   Etc etc etc.   50-100x what I was initially paying (twenty years ago) is the rule and not the exception.   1000x what I was initially paying on the key stuff.   

With those mental benchmarks and having owned pretty much everything once, I just can't pay what they go for anymore, even when I can afford.   Its just past what I want to pay, as you described, and when that happens, and you stop being able to (or wanting to) engage with the hobby by purchasing actively, you lose the passion as you said.    You're thinking about your collection less, you don't get the little dopamine hits from getting that item you didn't have, from getting one step closer to whatever collecting goal you were working on.    Instead, all that is gone and your interest starts to fade and you probably start looking at it a bit like a store of value rather than something you are excited by.   

It really does show that collecting is more about the journey than the destination because if the ride stops, the interest in the material wanes.     Once the journey's over, the destination isn't as interesting as you thought this whole time.

 

 

One of the best posts of the year.....fantastic....

 However, I disagree....

Change is difficult, inevitable, and takes no prisoners. I bought my first house around 1977...$41,000...today its $1,000,000.....that does not mean I will not buy a house today and its 25x the old price. Maybe 100K in this GA/SA silver market is $500 in 1973 terms as opposed to 2022. No I do not think it is the actual dollar amount that is real issue. For me, the journey never ends, because on this board, taking to collector's buddy over the phone like yesterday I am still learning, growing, reading material such as the early Kirby Visions in the Marvel Mystery's from the Marvel Omnibus Edition that keeps the journey alive and well. There is a heck of lot out there left to learn. For example, I learned yesterday that back in the Diamond meeting of 1999, that the birth of the CGC was sprung on the attendees  who were there to change certain things in the comic book price guide, which at the time was the market controlling source price wise or actually the holding back price device to assure a strong but steady growth. Then the CGC was sprung on the comic book dealers (price contributors) to the Guide. Bruce Hamilton was the spokesperson. who assured the attendees that the number one concern was that the grading be "consistent"....it was not to about one year later that the comic book holder was created and introduced.

 It was just a matter of time, that the internet and the CGC took over from the comic book price guide which suffered from a one year time lag, with updates...the speed of the market left that book in the lurch. I find it interesting that a number of dealers at the time either objected or were not sold on the idea. But CGC used the best marketing tool ever, they ran an add for a price comparison of like hulk" #181 and said it was like 10x price for the same book in a plastic holder.....yea...and every collector/dealer went for the greed and bought it hook, line and sinker, it got to the point  early on  that just being in the holder added value to the most common book.

 Flash forward to 2022....speculators, persons who are looking to place excess money now find that the CGC graded book is safe Million Dollar plus investment. Not a bad thing, it never would have gotten to that price level but for CGC. So. my hat is off to CGC and the hedge fund investor. But as consequence, we have true comic book collectors like Bronty, who are left in the dust and in the past saying it was a great and unique time in our GA/SA comic book collecting world. But the journey has come to a bit of end..left me behind.....

 So I say this to you Bronty, my friend....I still look at Action #1 and get chills about how it was to buy this book off the news stands n 1939 ,finding this great amazing escape from the pre-WWII time of peace, and knowing that somehow,Science and Truth, Justice, and the American way would win out. It was hope and we still never every ounce of that today, in todays  war torn world. Whether it was fighting Hitler, Stalin, or Putin....its all the same, just when think history cannot repeat itself is always does.  I think if you reevaluate  yourself as  a true comic book collector you will see you still have gas left in your collecting tank. I think the journey has just begun, that it does not have a middle or end as long as you have the right outlook. While the journey is long and hard, there are collector tipping points and you are at one of them to be or not to be moments. I do think of my collection less, but when I do think about it, it is like an  old friend going back in a time machine. Always there, dependable and so vast you never will get thru it. Just do not forget what brought you here and try and reclaim it.

 Bronty, I hope you come back to us recharged, we cannot afford to lose you.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Mmehdy

[Bronty]

On 5/11/2022 at 2:03 PM, Mmehdy said:

 

 So I say this to you Bronty, my friend....I still look at Action #1 and get chills about how it was to buy this book off the news stands n 1939 ,finding this great amazing escape from the pre-WWII time of peace, and knowing that somehow,Science and Truth, Justice, and the American way would win out. It was hope and we still never every ounce of that today, in todays  war torn world. Whether it was fighting Hitler, Stalin, or Putin....its all the same, just when think history cannot repeat itself is always does.  I think if you reevaluate  yourself as  a true comic book collector you will see you still have gas left in your collecting tank. I think the journey has just begun, that it does not have a middle or end as long as you have the right outlook. While the journey is long and hard, there are collector tipping points and you are at one of them to be or not to be moments. I do think of my collection less, but when I do think about it, it is like an  old friend going back in a time machine. Always there, dependable and so vast you never will get thru it. Just do not forget what brought you here and try and reclaim it.

 Bronty, I hope you come back to us recharged, we cannot afford to lose you.

Mitch, I appreciate the kind words.     I think its fantastic that you still get chills out Action 1.    

For my part, and I think for some others, you do sort of lose some interest if the market or if your life or interests go in directions that make a certain journey less interesting for you.

That being said, I suspect I'll always collect something ;)   I may have shut down one area but I'm active in others.   

As much as I may have had an epiphany that 'its the journey and not the destination' isn't just a cliche, there's always another journey to another destination once you reach the first destination ;) 

I think its difficult for people, myself definitely included, to just 'stop' collecting anything altogether if you've been a collector your whole life.    It might be possible to downsize, like Robot Man is talking about, or switch gears, like I am discussing, but I think its hard to just go completely cold turkey.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Bronty

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/4/2022 at 7:29 PM, szav said:

‘buy what others like when you find it underpriced.’

I love that.

I have recently returned to the comic book fold, and that is where my focus is. I may not pick up ones underpriced, but if I can find the right price, I'm in. I'm definitely collecting in the category of liking "what people like". However, I love horror comic art in general, so my focus has to do with art that I really like - since OA will never be in my collection, I'll gravitate to covers I want to have on my wall for the my personal artistic aesthetic.

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/11/2022 at 12:30 PM, Bronty said:

I think its difficult for people, myself definitely included, to just 'stop' collecting anything altogether if you've been a collector your whole life.    It might be possible to downsize, like Robot Man is talking about, or switch gears, like I am discussing, but I think its hard to just go completely cold turkey.

Much to my wife's chagrin - I can't explain to her that I have to collect *something*. I've come and gone from comic collecting three different times in my life, and it's just something my brain needs as a distraction. However, this third time, I'm really going to take what I've learned the two other times and apply it to keep myself hyper-focused.

The older I get, the more I am valuing the other - cheaper - parts of the hobby. It costs nothing to research and learn about the history of comics. It's a minimal cost for GPA, which allows another level of research. Talking to and meeting people to establish relationships is also is free. These are the things that I may have overlooked when I was younger, but as time goes by - it provides an added benefit to collecting. It's not just about dropping money for a book, it's the enjoyment you get before you buy it and the pride of ownership afterwards.

[Aman619]

On 5/11/2022 at 2:30 PM, Bronty said:

Mitch, I appreciate the kind words.     I think its fantastic that you still get chills out Action 1.    

For my part, and I think for some others, you do sort of lose some interest if the market or if your life or interests go in directions that make a certain journey less interesting for you.

That being said, I suspect I'll always collect something ;)   I may have shut down one area but I'm active in others.   

As much as I may have had an epiphany that 'its the journey and not the destination' isn't just a cliche, there's always another journey to another destination once you reach the first destination ;) 

I think its difficult for people, myself definitely included, to just 'stop' collecting anything altogether if you've been a collector your whole life.    It might be possible to downsize, like Robot Man is talking about, or switch gears, like I am discussing, but I think its hard to just go completely cold turkey.

I don’t feel the need to add to my stuff anymore.  It’s not a problem to stop buying, especially at today’s prices… and there’s a lot of collecting fun to do going through all the stuff and cataloguing it.   So the collection is still alive in my life even without plugging holes like I used to. Same but different now and takes up a lot of time just as before.

[Bronty]

On 5/11/2022 at 7:44 PM, Aman619 said:

I don’t feel the need to add to my stuff anymore.  It’s not a problem to stop buying, especially at today’s prices… and there’s a lot of collecting fun to do going through all the stuff and cataloguing it.   So the collection is still alive in my life even without plugging holes like I used to. Same but different now and takes up a lot of time just as before.

The change comes when you start selling some things.    You ship some stuff off.   Discover you don’t miss it and don’t even really remember what you sent.    It gets easier to send a second batch.   A third.    Pretty soon you’re associating your collection with the checks.

 

[Cat-Man_America]

On 5/11/2022 at 1:55 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Much to my wife's chagrin - I can't explain to her that I have to collect *something*. I've come and gone from comic collecting three different times in my life, and it's just something my brain needs as a distraction. However, this third time, I'm really going to take what I've learned the two other times and apply it to keep myself hyper-focused.

The older I get, the more I am valuing the other - cheaper - parts of the hobby. It costs nothing to research and learn about the history of comics. It's a minimal cost for GPA, which allows another level of research. Talking to and meeting people to establish relationships is also is free. These are the things that I may have overlooked when I was younger, but as time goes by - it provides an added benefit to collecting. It's not just about dropping money for a book, it's the enjoyment you get before you buy it and the pride of ownership afterwards.

Sage wisdom, ...clearly professional expertise is an untapped resource of consequential value!  ...  

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/11/2022 at 6:26 PM, szav said:

When I first got back in to collecting 6 or 7 years ago, after a 20 year break, and joined this forum one of the first threads I started was one asking for recommendations on books about comic book history to read.  Ten Cent Plague was the best… need to dig up and restart that thread because I’m getting priced out on a lot but still love the hobby and the history.

Oh yeah, I hadn't thought about that - I will definitely have to check that out. I'm already eyeballing collected works of PCH just so I have something to read!

[tth2]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:47 AM, Bronty said:

The change comes when you start selling some things.    You ship some stuff off.   Discover you don’t miss it and don’t even really remember what you sent.    It gets easier to send a second batch.   A third.    Pretty soon you’re associating your collection with the checks.

 

Damn, you are on fire!