The Ins and Outs of Auction House Bids (Heritage, Comiclink, Comic Connect, etc.) 2 2

[kbmcvay]

I thought this could be a good topic as I don't have any experience with any of the auction houses as far as bidding goes. Can we put together a breakdown of each one and how they work from a bidder and seller perspective? I think most of this information as far as BP, etc. is available but I think it would be helpful to have it all consolidated in one place. We could also use this thread for people to talk about strategies (sniping vs. early max bidding etc.) and if one tactic works better at one auction house as opposed to another.

 

 

[Rick2you2]

Rule 1: highest bid wins.

Rule 2: see Rule 1. 

 

[NicoV]

I have compiled some information on comic art auction houses, feel free to tell me if something is inacurate or if you have anything to complete this page!

https://comicarttracker.com/faq-en/collecting-original-comic-art/comic-art-auction-houses-comparison-table 

[kbmcvay]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:10 PM, NicoV said:

I have compiled some information on comic art auction houses, feel free to tell me if something is inacurate or if you have anything to complete this page!

https://comicarttracker.com/faq-en/collecting-original-comic-art/comic-art-auction-houses-comparison-table 

This is a great resource. Many thanks.

[Peter L]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:10 AM, NicoV said:

I have compiled some information on comic art auction houses, feel free to tell me if something is inacurate or if you have anything to complete this page!

https://comicarttracker.com/faq-en/collecting-original-comic-art/comic-art-auction-houses-comparison-table 

This is really good. Thank you for sharing this.

[kbmcvay]

Question- Does Heritage (or any other auction house) allow employees to drive up the price to near your maximum (which they know) with no intention of winning the art? I think I read about this awhile ago but wanted to make sure I wasn't incorrect.

[John E.]

I've won at Hake's before and overall it was a smooth experience. The only thing that I did not like is that when I was invoiced I was automatically billed for the 18% buyer's fee, when it was my intention to pay by check to save a little money. I'm sure I could've called them, but I just didn't have the time so I ate up the extra 3%. So if you do win something, and want to pay by check to save a little money, be prepared to call them.

[vodou]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:37 AM, kbmcvay said:

Question- Does Heritage (or any other auction house) allow employees to drive up the price to near your maximum (which they know) with no intention of winning the art? I think I read about this awhile ago but wanted to make sure I wasn't incorrect.

Nobody is ever going to put that in writing, the way you have; the lawyers wouldn't allow it. You have to use your imagination a bit here.

But, has this happened before? Oh sure, as admitted by principal Bill Mastro when his auction house was running "Americana" (including comic and illustration art) auctions around fifteen years ago. 

 

[Rick2you2]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:37 AM, kbmcvay said:

Question- Does Heritage (or any other auction house) allow employees to drive up the price to near your maximum (which they know) with no intention of winning the art? I think I read about this awhile ago but wanted to make sure I wasn't incorrect.

In many cases, an employee is allowed to submit bids with the hope of not winning. That’s a form of shilling. But if the winner wins, despite his/her hope, I think they still have to honor it and pay. I think Heritage does allow employee bidding.

[Bronty]

On 2/2/2022 at 12:10 PM, Rick2you2 said:

In many cases, an employee is allowed to submit bids with the hope of not winning. That’s a form of shilling. But if the winner wins, despite his/her hope, I think they still have to honor it and pay. I think Heritage does allow employee bidding.

someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there are only house bids on items that have reserves (typically coins).

As comics and comic art are typically without reserve, I believe it to be a non issue on virtually all lots.

[vodou]

Not to beat a dead horse, but...

On 2/2/2022 at 1:00 PM, Bronty said:

As comics and comic art are typically without reserve, I believe it to be a non issue on virtually all lots.

That completely ignores the "hidden reserve" concern that many have and, again, example: Mastro.

Also, OP is not only asking about Heritage, where it's true that reserves on comic art are uncommon.

The new guys are "huh?" on Mastro but we that have been around for 20+ years were bidding there and winning. And not cheaply either.

I was shilled up and over "hidden reserve" multiple times, exactly as described on an episode of American Greed:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6997478/

Most of us don't place any bids until the lot is live. Maybe paranoia, maybe not, but at least doing so you know "the other guys" definitely doesn't know where your line in the sand is!

[MAR1979]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:37 AM, kbmcvay said:

Question- Does Heritage (or any other auction house) allow employees to drive up the price to near your maximum (which they know) with no intention of winning the art? I think I read about this awhile ago but wanted to make sure I wasn't incorrect.

There is whole bunch of stuff legal for Auction Houses In Texas and the way I interpret what i read is the house is permitted to drive any bid to the max.

The horror stories are real.

My rule #1 for Comics, Cards and Art purchasing is never use Heritage. It's also my rule 2,4 and 7.  I consider anything that goes to them as non-existent items in my mind.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by MAR1979

[Bronty]

On 2/2/2022 at 2:55 PM, MAR1979 said:

There is whole bunch of stuff legal for Auction Houses In Texas and the way I interpret what i read is the house is permitted to drive any bid to the max.

The horror stories are real.

My rule #1 for Comics, Cards and Art purchasing is never use Heritage. It's also my rule 2,4 and 7.  I consider anything that goes to them as non-existent items in my mind.

 

I thought that was only below reserve on reserve lots?

if you ask around everyone on this board has won items for way less than their max bid.   I won a lot for 10% of what I bid once.

[MAR1979]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:10 PM, Bronty said:

I thought that was only below reserve on reserve lots?

if you ask around everyone on this board has won items for way less than their max bid.   I won a lot for 10% of what I bid once.

They don't necessarily do it on every auction but they can if they want.  Personally when i did use Heritage every single win of mine was at my max or 1 bid below.

Glad you enjoy Heritage but those i know are tired of being legally (yep its legit in Texas) swindled in effect by them. Feel free to start a thread with a poll, my guess is those who have had your experience are not in the majority. A poll can easily prove the prevailing perception.

BTW: Why is Heritage allowed to be vindictive if one takes 5 business days to pay but it's OK if they take 5-10 weeks to ship out the item.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by MAR1979

[Bronty]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:54 PM, MAR1979 said:

They don't necessarily do it on every auction but they can if they want.  Personally when i did use Heritage every single win of mine was at my max or 1 bid below.

Glad you enjoy Heritage but those i know are tired of being legally (yep its legit in Texas) swindled in effect by them. Feel free to start a thread with a poll, my guess is those who have had your experience are not in the majority. A poll can easily prove the prevailing perception.

BTW: Why is Heritage allowed to be vindictive if one takes 5 business days to pay but it's OK if they take 5-10 weeks to ship out the item.

 

If you always bid FMV plus or minus 10%, you're always going to be bid up to your max or close to.

The way to test the theory is to put a monster bid in on something most people aren't interested in, and see if you're bid up or not.   

Bidding $15k on a $15k item is of zero predictive value.

[Hockeyflow33]

Heritage allows their employees to bid on items and Comic Connect does not allow theirs to bid on items. 

[cstojano]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:56 PM, Hockeyflow33 said:

Heritage allows their employees to bid on items and Comic Connect does not allow theirs to bid on items. 

shill bidding is the cost of doing business for having a working search button I suppose.

[G.A.tor]

Shill bidding is illegal in Texas, just as it is in virtually every state. It is true heritage employees can bid, but they are not privy to max bids etc. They can only participate (legally) if they want to win. But  in theory any auction house  could incorporate some sort of illegal shill bidding technique to inflate prices (and their vig)

[Rick2you2]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:10 PM, G.A.tor said:

Shill bidding is illegal in Texas, just as it is in virtually every state. It is true heritage employees can bid, but they are not privy to max bids etc. They can only participate (legally) if they want to win. But  in theory any auction house  could incorporate some sort of illegal shill bidding technique to inflate prices (and their vig)

My understanding is that under Texas law, if the published rules of bidding for a particular company permit it, I believe it is permitted. Heritage auction rules apply Texas law.

[G.A.tor]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:25 PM, Rick2you2 said:

My understanding is that under Texas law, if the published rules of bidding for a particular company permit it, I believe it is permitted. Heritage auction rules apply Texas law.

Correct. Heritage allows employees to bid on an item. But the same rules applies to them as to any non employee bidder. Bidding for the sole purpose of inflation (shilling) is illegal in Texas