Oh Man I Sure Hope the Comics Market Never Crashes as Bad as the Stamps Market 13 13

[1Cool]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:08 PM, William-James88 said:

Just go with "youtubers"

Doesn't directly explain new records for Fiction House books or pre code horror either. There being a grading company doesn't explain it outright either since they don't need to be graded to get those big prices.

CGC existing does help the hobby in giving grading a uniformity, so even though you may sell or buy a book raw, the price it sells for is related to the grade which in turn is determined through standards that CGC enforces. But I don't see how it saves the hobby, it seems more like just a tool to keep sellers on their toes. Books that CGC did turn into commodities at the beginning like DC's Shadow 1 and Harbinger 1 have lost massive value since CGC started. So neither grading not movies are the biggest factors keeping all aspects of this hobby alive. They are just some factors contributing to general interest of multiple facets of this hobby. Like I wrote previously, stamps had this whole grading thing perfected and none of you cared to become stamp collectors because of it. Grading companies weren't enough to stimulate continued interest.

And as the graph poste previously shows, the single comic market is declining at a rapid pace and yet CGC is more in demand than ever, so the correlation isn't there. Or maybe when talking of comic collecting, we should only be talking of back issues and particular eras. After all, we are seeing that a decline in weekly comic sales has no impact on collecting SA comics, GA comics, ect.

I would disagree with this statement unless we are talking about key or hot books.  There is a ton of SA and even GA books (westerns anyone) that have dropped in price over the last 10 years.  Ever tried to sell run of the mill 12 or 15 cent Jimmy Olsen or Adventure Comics?  Spidey's are easy to sell pretty much across the board but there are a ton of FF and Avenger books in the SA that sit for awhile unless priced accordingly.  The drop in run collectors has had a big impact to non key books which probably corresponds to the drop in people buying current books to keep a collection complete.

[JollyComics]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:54 PM, D84 said:

That term makes me throw up in my mouth.

 

Dylan made me throwing up too.

[William-James88]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:05 PM, 1Cool said:

I would disagree with this statement unless we are talking about key or hot books.  There is a ton of SA and even GA books (westerns anyone) that have dropped in price over the last 10 years.  Ever tried to sell run of the mill 12 or 15 cent Jimmy Olsen or Adventure Comics?  Spidey's are easy to sell pretty much across the board but there are a ton of FF and Avenger books in the SA that sit for awhile unless priced accordingly.  The drop in run collectors has had a big impact to non key books which probably corresponds to the drop in people buying current books to keep a collection complete.

Very interesting, thanks. And you are right, I forgot about those. Yes, a run of the mill adventure comics does sell below guide, as do other non key DC silvers, like Hawkman.  And as for FF, a book as early as number 10 has had very little growth, only getting up recently. So, and now you'll correct me if I am wrong, are you saying that these examples show that we actually are in a current decline with the comic collecting hobby. At least for particular segments?

On 3/9/2022 at 1:45 PM, JollyComics said:

Dylan made me throwing up too.

HAHAHAHAHA

[bc]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:05 PM, 1Cool said:

Ever tried to sell run of the mill 12 or 15 cent Jimmy Olsen or Adventure Comics?

Yep, you just have to find the right sucker buyer 

-bc

[1Cool]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:01 PM, William-James88 said:

Very interesting, thanks. And you are right, I forgot about those. Yes, a run of the mill adventure comics does sell below guide, as do other non key DC silvers, like Hawkman.  And as for FF, a book as early as number 10 has had very little growth, only getting up recently. So, and now you'll correct me if I am wrong, are you saying that these examples show that we actually are in a current decline with the comic collecting hobby. At least for particular segments?

HAHAHAHAHA

We have been in a declining market for non-key or uber high grade comics for awhile now.  With keys sky rocketing and people not wanting to drain the piggy bank it seems people are blowing out filler books in an effort to afford the keys and slabbed high grade copies.  Complete run buyers are just not coming into the market in droves which is forcing a lot of people to blow out mid grade filler books at quite a discount compared to what they were selling awhile ago.

[1Cool]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:09 PM, bc said:

Yep, you just have to find the right sucker buyer 

-bc

I did pretty well with the keys in the collection you sold me so basically giving away the lower grade filler issues seems to be the way of the future.  All books sell but the days of getting top dollar for lower interest filler books is way gone.

[bc]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:29 PM, 1Cool said:

I did pretty well with the keys in the collection you sold me so basically giving away the lower grade filler issues seems to be the way of the future.  All books sell but the days of getting top dollar for lower interest filler books is way gone.

Glad it worked out for everyone - that was my goal for the entire transaction. The seller was happy, the middle-man was happy and the buyer did pretty well. Win-win-win!

I'll never forget pulling that crappy newspaper from the bottom of the box and seeing that JIM83 underneath 

-bc

[F For Fake]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:05 PM, 1Cool said:

I would disagree with this statement unless we are talking about key or hot books.  There is a ton of SA and even GA books (westerns anyone) that have dropped in price over the last 10 years.  Ever tried to sell run of the mill 12 or 15 cent Jimmy Olsen or Adventure Comics?  Spidey's are easy to sell pretty much across the board but there are a ton of FF and Avenger books in the SA that sit for awhile unless priced accordingly.  The drop in run collectors has had a big impact to non key books which probably corresponds to the drop in people buying current books to keep a collection complete.

Trying to get anything near "market value" (or OSPG) for mid-grade Silver DC run books would be a real challenge for sure. Or even 1/2 guide, at that. Or more than $2-$3, really.

Edited March 9, 2022 by F For Fake

[1Cool]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:52 PM, F For Fake said:

Trying to get anything near "market value" (or OSPG) for mid-grade Silver DC run books would be a real challenge for sure. Or even 1/2 guide, at that. Or more than $2-$3, really.

When I first started selling books on the boards over a decade ago I use to buy filler SA books in bulk for 20-25% of guide and had no problem selling most for 40% of guide.  Now I'm buying these books for $5 a piece and selling them for 25% guide if I'm lucky.  Keys are on fire but the perceived "crash" has already occurred for a huge swath of the comic book marketplace.

Edited March 9, 2022 by 1Cool

[darkstar]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:25 AM, Mecha_Fantastic said:

First, strike 99% of these losers off the 'influencer' register. They ain't influencing mess. 

Then go from there. 

A single post on a speculation website visited by a few thousand people is enough to trigger changes in the comic market. Look at how quickly misinformation has spread over the past decade evidence of which routinely shows up in eBay listings wherein it is used to sell certain issues. 

 

 

[ComicFill]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:08 AM, William-James88 said:

Just go with "youtubers"

But it isn't just youtube. It is instagram, facebook, and tik tok too. I know the word "influencer" is gag inducing, and reminiscent of a kardashian, but that is what they do. They influence. I've seen lots of variants or releases or obscure keys on an instagram post or a youtube video that made me decide to get it. Hell, I jumped on the Iron Studios X-men Diorama because I saw a preview video a youtuber did and now I'm $10k into it. Without that youtube video I might not have even know that it existed.

[ComicFill]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:57 AM, Stefan_W said:

This is true as far as it goes, but I would also add the impact of the Marvel movies has made a massive difference. For good or bad, the success and continued of the MCU has pushed the comic market from being largely flat to one where there is continual growth at least in some titles. 

For sure MCU has taken it to the next level. But I would argue CGC was elevating comic collecting and saving the hobby from the 90s nosedive for several years before Iron Man came out.

[ComicFill]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:25 AM, Mecha_Fantastic said:

First, strike 99% of these losers off the 'influencer' register. They ain't influencing mess. 

Then go from there. 

I think you underestimate how much affect a person can have. I've seen it happen. Guy with only a couple thousand followers posts a video about a spec book that is the first appearance of a minor charter that he theorizes would be a perfect addition to an MCU show coming up. Then all of a sudden that book at a CGC 9.8 goes from selling for around $100 to having several sales over $300 with multiple bidders. Enough sales happen that it becomes the FMV. Only takes 3 or 4 auctions to completely change what a book trades at.

[Qalyar]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:29 PM, 1Cool said:

All books sell but the days of getting top dollar for lower interest filler books is way gone.

This is actually exactly what happened to stamp prices, going back to the original post.

Philately isn't dead dead, but the market definitely contracted. The problem for a lot of individual stamp values is that the market contraction has put demand at roughly the same level as the supply of exceptional quality pieces for many issues. For example, the Columbians. Because the Columbians were, in part, marketed as collectibles when they were first printed back in 1893, they exist in relatively large numbers in high grades, with nice centering, and large margins. The stamps in the initial post have... none of those things. They're poorly centered (which is a more serious defect in stamp collecting than miswraps are for comics) and some indeterminate number of them are advertised as "thinned" (this is a serious physical defect; the comic equivalent would be a book with substantial back-cover color loss due to abrasion or the like). Stamps like that never brought in anything close to catalog value, but the smaller philatelic market is rapidly pushing those prices down even harder because there simply aren't buyers of "filler-grade" material ... just like there aren't really many comic buyers snapping up random pieces of mid-grade SA/BA run fill.

[JJ-4]

On 3/9/2022 at 3:39 PM, Qalyar said:

This is actually exactly what happened to stamp prices, going back to the original post.

Philately isn't dead dead, but the market definitely contracted. The problem for a lot of individual stamp values is that the market contraction has put demand at roughly the same level as the supply of exceptional quality pieces for many issues. For example, the Columbians. Because the Columbians were, in part, marketed as collectibles when they were first printed back in 1893, they exist in relatively large numbers in high grades, with nice centering, and large margins. The stamps in the initial post have... none of those things. They're poorly centered (which is a more serious defect in stamp collecting than miswraps are for comics) and some indeterminate number of them are advertised as "thinned" (this is a serious physical defect; the comic equivalent would be a book with substantial back-cover color loss due to abrasion or the like). Stamps like that never brought in anything close to catalog value, but the smaller philatelic market is rapidly pushing those prices down even harder because there simply aren't buyers of "filler-grade" material ... just like there aren't really many comic buyers snapping up random pieces of mid-grade SA/BA run fill.

Damn, filler-grade be taking a hit.

[JJ-4]

On 3/9/2022 at 3:48 PM, JJ-4 said:

Damn, filler-grade be taking a hit.

Sorry, should have said "good info in that post", but my sarcasm is still turned up after being on a few other threads. 

[october]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:39 PM, Qalyar said:

just like there aren't really many comic buyers snapping up random pieces of mid-grade SA/BA run fill.

This is true of course, but it's also been true for years/decades. I can't remember a time when something like a VG Captain America 106 or a fine copy of Batman 177 drew much interest. Personally, I think the thing that killed that sort of book was eBay and the internet. It revealed just how common that level of stuff really is....and it's everywhere. 

I will grant that run building seems to be slowly losing appeal, but there are so many factors putting pressure on that type of collecting (cost, space, the rise of slabs, TPBs, etc). I don't think it has to do with general market contraction, more like a market refocus. 

[thunsicker]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:44 PM, ComicFill said:

CGC saved the comic collecting hobby in my opinion. Without grading companies I don't think we would have nearly the interest there currently is.

Some would say CGC (and the Marvel movies and EBay) killed the comic collecting hobby.  Made comics so expensive that they became an investment rather than a hobby/collection.

On 3/9/2022 at 2:57 PM, october said:

This is true of course, but it's also been true for years/decades. I can't remember a time when something like a VG Captain America 106 or a fine copy of Batman 177 drew much interest. Personally, I think the thing that killed that sort of book was eBay and the internet. It revealed just how common that level of stuff really is....and it's everywhere. 

I will grant that run building seems to be slowly losing appeal, but there are so many factors putting pressure on that type of collecting (cost, space, the rise of slabs, TPBs, etc). I don't think it has to do with general market contraction, more like a market refocus. 

And this is partially the result of that.  In the days of collecting getting them all was the goal.  Run collectors were the standard.  Now, as the run collectors sell off, the investors snap up the keys and the run comics add to the glut.

 

 

[october]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:19 PM, thunsicker said:

And this is partially the result of that.  In the days of collecting getting them all was the goal.  Run collectors were the standard.  Now, as the run collectors sell off, the investors snap up the keys and the run comics add to the glut.

At some point, I wonder if sky-high key prices will reverse that course a little. I find myself priced out of a lot of the rare Gold I want, so over the past year I've done something I've never really done before....I began building some Silver Age runs. 

[Gregd]

Boy, if I was new to his hobby, these posts would make me think twice 😞 

Understand that it’s an opinion, but all this talk about the hobby’s demise doesn’t really get new collectors excited to jump in. These boards can be a bit doom and gloom at times.