LOCKED - OP request - Needing help! Book stolen 3 3

[Mmanick]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:49 AM, 50 Fiddy said:

Okay, so they closed it out and told you they were going to send you a check for $100.  It seems you're making matters worse for yourself.   Neither are going to stop everything they're doing to search for your book since both seem to think it's now a loss. Yeah it sucks that you probably paid more for the services than what you're going to recover, but you have yourself to blame for choosing the cheapest route to have the book returned back to you. 

It takes several months to recover that 100 or I was told to take a 100 credit because it’s faster. I hope this doesn’t happen to you ever.

[troydivision1]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:15 AM, Chief1332 said:

These instances are just a shame.

When books are sent in and payment has been made, don't we have a contract with cgc?  Is it the comic owner's responsibility to ensure cgc honors the contract?

Why should the books TRUE owner, have to worry about what insurance cgc has or does not have on various carriers?  Isn't it up to the sender to get the book to the owner, and not the other way around?  And since the carrier is responsible to deliver the package to the TRUE owner, it seems the issue lies between cgc and the shipper.  I feel that the owner is just a third, albeit concerned party in cases like these, with little authority or muscle to make things happen.

Mistakes happen of course, and we've all been taken advantage of one time or another by grading company or shipper.  I hate being brought into a scenario like this, where the greatest company in the world can't get a book delivered as required, as contracted.

If the book is important to me, it is Signatures all the way, with full insurance, until it arrives at its assigned destination.  Other than that, it's up to someone else.

Good luck.

This is an excellent point.
Were this an eBay / CGC board transaction the 'customer' would be made right and the 'seller' would have to take it up with the 'shipper'.
Hopefully, the book will be found / returned or CGC will work to 'make it right'.

[Mmanick]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:41 AM, The Velcronomicon said:

CGC already has.

No the f they did not guy. Stop speaking for me. They made nothing right nor has the book been found

[Semicentennial]

On 3/22/2022 at 8:23 AM, Mmanick said:

No the f they did not guy. Stop speaking for me. They made nothing right nor has the book been found

You submitted your book for grading which they did.  You then selected the cheapest shipping option with a maximum insurance claim of $100 to be payable to you in case of loss or damage.  

They're offering to send you a check for the $100 and if the books do reappear you just have to give them back what they paid you to get your book back.  

To me, It actually sound fair.  I know if it happened to me I would be upset, but it would be my own fault for my not paying more to have a shipping option that offered more insurance.  

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

Think the only real options left are.

1) wait and hope the book shows up.

2) take CGC'S offer and accept the loss. 

3) file police report for stolen property.  Take out small claims court case against UPS for the loss, and leave BBB report. Share CGC CASE # of the graded book and hope someone spots it and try to recover it. 

 

None of these options are great, but unfortunately this is the predicament you currently find yourself. Others have mentioned that this was a choice of which  carrier to use and the services they do(or dont provide/insure)

You took a chance not having it shipped through a carrier that covers insurance / loss. Which is further exacerbated by not carrying private insurance to cover potential loss.

These options are laid out on CGC'S website.  

Yes it sucks and I am sure a lot of us cringe at the thought of loss, but it is a risk we all take when sending off our collectibles. 

It is always best to do everything you can to mitigate the loss should the unthinkable occur.  

The only other thing you can do is chalk whatever loss you have incurred in this as paying for education on how to proceed in the future.  

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by onlyweaknesskryptonite

[joeypost]

Moral of the story...always properly insure the book. It's no different than some putting a value of $100 on the CGC submission form for a book that is really worth $500. When you do that, you are in essence, accepting the liability if the book gets damaged or lost.

[thehumantorch]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:21 AM, Mmanick said:

That’s what I’m being told. Unfortunately these companies just want me to move on and they want to declare the package stolen but i keep saying look for it and hoping it turns up.

UPS and all large package delivery companies handle incredible volumes of parcels.   UPS handles approx. 21 million packages per day.  If UPS makes a mistake on .1% or 1 in 1000 packages -a fairly low error rate - that would mean about 21,000 packages per day lost or misdelivered.  UPS only knows where your package is based on the last tracking scan and if something happens they don't know where to start looking and the incredible volume of incoming parcels makes it impossible to look.  

I'm not a fan of UPS but realistically you're just one of many thousands of daily missing packages and as far as they're concerned you're just a rounding error and someone to pay out the insurance to and move on.  I know it isn't fair and I feel for you and I'm really sorry this happened.  Don't give up hope, this package could very well be lost somewhere in their system and eventually show up.

[shadroch]

If UPS only insures for $100, and the vast majority of packages CGC ships are worth far in excess of that amount, it would seem that CGC could simply not offer thayt option.

We just lost our Fed Ex shop in Bisbee. I'm not sure what happened, but now my Fed Ex options involve a 30 mile drive in either direction. I thought about shipping UPS but I ship a few thousand dollars worth of books at a time and can't risk it.

[Tnexus]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:35 AM, JollyComics said:

I strongly disagreed with you. I am an UPS employee for 13 years.  They are NOT cheapstake and don't want to take the liability for any loss or damage ANYMORE - too many customers abused UPS's insurance for MANY YEARS. That is why UPS ceased it ever since (I believe they stopped the insurance in early 2000's). Union/Teamsters are bloodsuckers. Yes I am the union member.  They deduct my weekly paycheck about $13 so I have paid $900 a year to the union.  You know what?  I am the part-time employee with full insurance that covers my whole family, 401K (I have to pay with my choice), two life insurances (one is free and I pay about $25 a year) and pension, not bad for the part-time employee.  Also, I have 4 paid vacation weeks!

I meant the UPS cost to ship from CGC was cheaper than USPS since they aren't insuring, not that the company was cheaper. I'll take UPS any day over Fedex.

  

On 3/22/2022 at 7:35 AM, JollyComics said:

 USPS employees are the worst. They steal everything everyday and the superiors are ineffective to stop them.  The insurance is still in use.

As someone who used to work as a post office, this is largely BS. Sure every company has bad actors, but I never encountered one person who would steal mail.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Tnexus

[KPR Comics]

There is still hope.  Case in point - I ordered a propane heater for my Vanagon last June (2021).  Shipper sent via UPS.  I got notification that it was delivered so I went outside to retrieve the package but there was no package there.  Contacted UPS and they said shipper (not me) has to open investigation.  Contacted shipper and they opened one.  UPS called me to confirm.  Case was opened and closed 5 times and only the shipper, not receiver (i.e., me) could re-open.  Shipper had great customer service rep who was relentless and got UPS to pay them full value.  Shipper then sent me a replacement heater.  All was good from my and shipper's perspective.  Yesterday, I'm sitting on the front porch and up walks the UPS guy with a box.  Guess what it was - the original heater.  9 months later.

[wombat]

On 3/22/2022 at 1:58 PM, KPR Comics said:

There is still hope.  Case in point - I ordered a propane heater for my Vanagon last June (2021).  Shipper sent via UPS.  I got notification that it was delivered so I went outside to retrieve the package but there was no package there.  Contacted UPS and they said shipper (not me) has to open investigation.  Contacted shipper and they opened one.  UPS called me to confirm.  Case was opened and closed 5 times and only the shipper, not receiver (i.e., me) could re-open.  Shipper had great customer service rep who was relentless and got UPS to pay them full value.  Shipper then sent me a replacement heater.  All was good from my and shipper's perspective.  Yesterday, I'm sitting on the front porch and up walks the UPS guy with a box.  Guess what it was - the original heater.  9 months later.

That is insane. You wonder where a heater was hiding for 9 months. 

[Mmanick]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:58 AM, KPR Comics said:

There is still hope.  Case in point - I ordered a propane heater for my Vanagon last June (2021).  Shipper sent via UPS.  I got notification that it was delivered so I went outside to retrieve the package but there was no package there.  Contacted UPS and they said shipper (not me) has to open investigation.  Contacted shipper and they opened one.  UPS called me to confirm.  Case was opened and closed 5 times and only the shipper, not receiver (i.e., me) could re-open.  Shipper had great customer service rep who was relentless and got UPS to pay them full value.  Shipper then sent me a replacement heater.  All was good from my and shipper's perspective.  Yesterday, I'm sitting on the front porch and up walks the UPS guy with a box.  Guess what it was - the original heater.  9 months later.

This is exactly what keeps happening my case has been closed three times. Me being persistent I'm the one who keeps getting it reopened and UPS is making it harder for me because I'm not the shipper to them it's a 100 dollars and .move on. You were able to get a relentless person to help you I unfortunately get just move on its lost go collect a 100$ in a few months or take cgc credit. I've already filed a police report,  am in the process of calling all comic shops in that area with the bar code label.  Thank you for posting this people dont understand how things work until they actually experience it themselves.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mmanick

[JollyComics]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:03 PM, Tnexus said:

I meant the UPS cost to ship from CGC was cheaper than USPS since they aren't insuring, not that the company was cheaper. I'll take UPS any day over Fedex.

  

As someone who used to work as a post office, this is largely BS. Sure every company has bad actors, but I never encountered one person who would steal mail.

UPS costs more than FedEx. I have kept finding cheaper rates with FedEx than UPS.  It depends on the locations.  UPS has highest volume than FedEx everyday.  I have seen more damages at UPS - of course it's shippers' bad packings that intend to be damaged easily (major shippers are Sam's Club, 3M, Target and Amazon that end up with new tapes).  I have no issue with FedEx for ten years but UPS almost lost mine twice but rerouted to the correct address. UPS is getting better but still damages the packages.

USPS - I am victimized few times. My package was missing for three weeks and was routed to Clink.  I found 99% of my Batman collection (all of them are CGC graded copies) ended up in eBay. Luckily, I know the seller who used to work Clink. We worked together with two different local police in two different states. Luckily, the seller who stole my books sold them via PayPal to the buyer that led the information. The seller agreed to bring my books back to Clink. PayPal paid him back.  PayPal reported on the thief to Chicago police. I reported it to Postal Inspector too.  Why did she steal my book?  She needed money for drug. Duh.  I am very lucky to find my books.

My #2 EIP (Economic Impact Payment) check was stolen in January 13th 2021 then the replacement check was stolen on October 26th, 2021. Department of Treasury/Bureau of a Fiscal Service and I work on the third check. Yes, it consumes me for over one year and four months to get that damned check.  They just mailed the letter on March 18th and I check routinely emails (USPS Informed Delivery) to see what mails (all are images). The letter from Treasury/Fiscal Service is missing. I reported it as missing via USPS website. I decided to call my local police and gave all documents included two copies of two different forgeries on the back of two checks. The case was made to prevent the mail thief. My local PO and postmasters do nothing.  I have to add my bank information on 2021 1040 Tax form so I will get the electronically direct deposit.  Never mail US government money again.  In last few years, my few mails were opened and were put in the large envelopes. They look for the check or cash. Few cards for my kids were missing because the checks were enclosed.   Chicago mail processing center is the worst in US.  I live about 20 miles away.  I am not alone and everyone complains everyday and we had TV news about it few times.

They have missed checks, important documents and medicines.  They are NOT bad actors but criminals.  You may be luck so far.

[JollyComics]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:58 PM, KPR Comics said:

There is still hope.  Case in point - I ordered a propane heater for my Vanagon last June (2021).  Shipper sent via UPS.  I got notification that it was delivered so I went outside to retrieve the package but there was no package there.  Contacted UPS and they said shipper (not me) has to open investigation.  Contacted shipper and they opened one.  UPS called me to confirm.  Case was opened and closed 5 times and only the shipper, not receiver (i.e., me) could re-open.  Shipper had great customer service rep who was relentless and got UPS to pay them full value.  Shipper then sent me a replacement heater.  All was good from my and shipper's perspective.  Yesterday, I'm sitting on the front porch and up walks the UPS guy with a box.  Guess what it was - the original heater.  9 months later.

On my behalf for UPS, I am sorry about that.  They do care.   Some UPS employees didn't care about the empty boxes that had labels that end up in the dumpsters. Always give the empty boxes to the clerks.   Remember it's important to put the invoice in the sealed envelope on the box so they can find the right item. That would be much quicker.

[Mmanick]

On 3/22/2022 at 11:47 AM, JollyComics said:

UPS costs more than FedEx. I have kept finding cheaper rates with FedEx than UPS.  It depends on the locations.  UPS has highest volume than FedEx everyday.  I have seen more damages at UPS - of course it's shippers' bad packings that intend to be damaged easily (major shippers are Sam's Club, 3M, Target and Amazon that end up with new tapes).  I have no issue with FedEx for ten years but UPS almost lost mine twice but rerouted to the correct address. UPS is getting better but still damages the packages.

USPS - I am victimized few times. My package was missing for three weeks and was routed to Clink.  I found 99% of my Batman collection (all of them are CGC graded copies) ended up in eBay. Luckily, I know the seller who used to work Clink. We worked together with two different local police in two different states. Luckily, the seller who stole my books sold them via PayPal to the buyer that led the information. The seller agreed to bring my books back to Clink. PayPal paid him back.  PayPal reported on the thief to Chicago police. I reported it to Postal Inspector too.  Why did she steal my book?  She needed money for drug. Duh.  I am very lucky to find my books.

My #2 EIP (Economic Impact Payment) check was stolen in January 13th 2021 then the replacement check was stolen on October 26th, 2021. Department of Treasury/Bureau of a Fiscal Service and I work on the third check. Yes, it consumes me for over one year and four months to get that damned check.  They just mailed the letter on March 18th and I check routinely emails (USPS Informed Delivery) to see what mails (all are images). The letter from Treasury/Fiscal Service is missing. I reported it as missing via USPS website. I decided to call my local police and gave all documents included two copies of two different forgeries on the back of two checks. The case was made to prevent the mail thief. My local PO and postmasters do nothing.  I have to add my bank information on 2021 1040 Tax form so I will get the electronically direct deposit.  Never mail US government money again.  In last few years, my few mails were opened and were put in the large envelopes. They look for the check or cash. Few cards for my kids were missing because the checks were enclosed.   Chicago mail processing center is the worst in US.  I live about 20 miles away.  I am not alone and everyone complains everyday and we had TV news about it few times.

They have missed checks, important documents and medicines.  They are NOT bad actors but criminals.  You may be luck so far.

Wow, sorry to hear that. As I stated until it happens to that person they will never know the depths you have to go through as I'm finding out now. I've went to houses and recovered stuff back that were shipped to the wrong address numerous times because usps, fed ex,  ups would take forever.

[JollyComics]

On 3/22/2022 at 1:53 PM, Mmanick said:

Wow, sorry to hear that. As I stated until it happens to that person they will never know the depths you have to go through as I'm finding out now. I've went to houses and recovered stuff back that were shipped to the wrong address numerous times because usps, fed ex,  ups would take forever.

UPS is a worldwide company.

[PDGray]

Seems to me like CGC has done their part.  

It seems to me, however, that I would keep hounding the shipping company regarding the tracking # and where the item is.  Don't ask them for claim stuff - just tell and clarify that you want the package.  Unfortunately, I think this likely falls 100% on them.

 

PDG

[troydivision1]

On 3/22/2022 at 1:03 PM, Tnexus said:

I meant the UPS cost to ship from CGC was cheaper than USPS since they aren't insuring, not that the company was cheaper. I'll take UPS any day over Fedex.

CGC related opinion on both UPS and FedEx deliveries within the past 4 business days.
Each shipment contained $XXXX worth of slabs.
Each was insured and had signature required.
UPS left it on my doorstep with no signature.
FedEx left a door tag because I wasn't home to sign.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Troy Division

[Mmanick]

**update: Spoke to shipping manager from UPS and in his investigation hes telling me the package has never left the CGC in Sarasota FL they concluded that the package is lost somewhere in cgc's warehouse or vault. called to talk with cgc and still cant get a hold of a supervisor.

[JollyComics]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:55 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Think the only real options left are.

1) wait and hope the book shows up.

2) take CGC'S offer and accept the loss. 

3) file police report for stolen property.  Take out small claims court case against UPS for the loss, and leave BBB report. Share CGC CASE # of the graded book and hope someone spots it and try to recover it. 

 

None of these options are great, but unfortunately this is the predicament you currently find yourself. Others have mentioned that this was a choice of which  carrier to use and the services they do(or dont provide/insure)

You took a chance not having it shipped through a carrier that covers insurance / loss. Which is further exacerbated by not carrying private insurance to cover potential loss.

These options are laid out on CGC'S website.  

Yes it sucks and I am sure a lot of us cringe at the thought of loss, but it is a risk we all take when sending off our collectibles. 

It is always best to do everything you can to mitigate the loss should the unthinkable occur.  

The only other thing you can do is chalk whatever loss you have incurred in this as paying for education on how to proceed in the future.  

 

I believe every invoice requires the declaration of the book value. Put the amount on each book then it calculates the shipping cost.  What delivery service you are using so the company is responsible for the damage or loss.