investing right now 7 7

[FlyingDonut]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:37 PM, fastballspecial said:

This is great I love reading about other comic book hobbyists that have invested well. 
Comics are for fun. Trying to base your retirement of them is a disaster for 95% of people. 
They are great partial as part of a much larger portfolio. I have used them over the years
to finance my kids college funds, braces, and car repairs for kids.

And on a side not you are really lucky as a teacher to have that type of retirement plan.
I left teaching because of the lack of retirement. KY had a state pension plan and sky rocketing
health insurance every year. Thats a great retirement plan. 

I started my children in high school on the 401k/IRA benefits. My daughter graduates in May and 
the same as my son I will walk her thru my 401k so she can understand what investments can do
over 30 years. As soon as they get a 1 year in with an employer I am pushing them to put money 
in their 401ks at those companies. Even if the 401k suck they can transfer the money later. 

I do this with new employees too when I train them. I show them a 401k spreadsheet over 30 years
with them investing their money over time and increasing their 401k % yearly. I have no idea how 
many pay attention, but my manager really liked it when he walked by one day and asked me about it.
I feel better knowing I am at least trying to get them understand this as many are 20 to 30 as new employees
and have time.
 

If you want a better example, use the Chicago Bears. The Halas family bought the Bears for $100 in 1920. The franchise is worth $4.1 billion today. That's an 18.4% average annual return which, while high, isn't completely nutty.

[FlyingDonut]

On 3/29/2022 at 10:59 PM, FFB said:

This is true and is the main reason I wouldn't buy a ton of copies of something like ASM 265 instead of one big book.  The time and effort it takes to sell them all is considerable.  

While I don't disagree, diversification doesn't hurt and you're lessening your risk considerably. Also good to see you back.

[jcjames]

Multiples of midgrade (BA) or low-midgrade (SA) blue-chip keys are terrific "investments" if comics are to be invested in. 

For example in BA books, in the past 15 years or so, the midgrade blue-chips like IH181, ASM129, BAT244, have seen tremendous growth in values, far surpassing the higher grade returns of the same books.

IH181 9.4 is up +800% over last 15 years while 7.0 is up 1400% in the same time frame. 

ASM129 9.4 is up +500% over last 15 years while 7.0 is up 1000% in the same time frame. 

That trend will only increase into the deeper midgrade BA keys and low-midgrade SA keys moving forward, as the high and mid-high grades get priced out of many people's range, as has happened with grails. 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by jcjames

[FFB]

On 3/31/2022 at 10:55 AM, FlyingDonut said:

While I don't disagree, diversification doesn't hurt and you're lessening your risk considerably. Also good to see you back.

Thanks buddy.  It's good to be back, and it's great to see you and several other original members still here.  I miss the forum dinners of yesteryear.  

[Rob]

On 3/31/2022 at 10:58 AM, jcjames said:

IH181 9.4 is up +800% over last 15 years while 7.0 is up 1400% in the same time frame. 

ASM129 9.4 is up +500% over last 15 years while 7.0 is up 1000% in the same time frame. 

How much of those %'s have come in the last 2 years?  I caution against including the past 2 years' data in any price analysis.  I'd rather look at the 13 years prior to 2020, then project that percentage out.

[jcjames]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:15 PM, Rob said:

How much of those %'s have come in the last 2 years?  I caution against including the past 2 years' data in any price analysis.  I'd rather look at the 13 years prior to 2020, then project that percentage out.

The trend still holds, though not as pronounced. 

IHI 9.4 +400% vs 7.0 +700% from 2006 to 2019 (rough numbers)

ASM129 9.4 +300% vs 7.0 +350% from 2006 to 2019 (again, rough numbers)

Part of the point also is that, since many of the blue-chip upper grades have been priced out of many people's price ranges in the past 2-3 years, that makes the midgrades (and low-midgrades for SA) even more attractive for growth moving forward for keys. Also, spending $1K or $10K buying low or midgrade multiples to sell later is easier than buying a single $1K or $10K highgrade book. 

Grails like AF15 are a different beast though. 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by jcjames

[Roger66]

Comics IMO are a unicorn when it comes to collectibles because of the childhood importance of many of these characters, the longevity of this hobby, the constant new blood that enters the market, the movie and media involvement and the limited quantities of many keys in comparison to their high demand.  I keep thinking how Wolverine's 1st app. is going to be 50 years old in a couple of years.  The aspect of this hobby I caution against are the fools  who pay 1,000's of dollars for moderns and variants - money that intuitively feels incredibly wasteful - oh well time will tell and not our present pontifications on the subject. my 2-cents 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Roger66

[shadroch]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:06 PM, Roger66 said:

Comics IMO are a unicorn when it comes to collectibles because of the childhood importance of many of these characters, the longevity of this hobby, the constant new blood that enters the market, the movie and media involvement and the limited quantities of many keys in comparison to their high demand.  I keep thinking how Wolverine's 1st app. is going to be 50 years old in a couple of years.  The aspect of this hobby I caution against are the fools  who pay 1,000's of dollars for moderns and variants - money that intuitively feels incredibly wasteful - oh well time will tell and not our present pontifications on the subject. my 2-cents 

I remember a show around 1978 where a well-meaning dealer tried to explain that trading my Classics 43 for a run of X-Men 100-115 was foolish and if I was still around in twenty years I'd regret it. He said there were tens of thousands of Xbooks and he didn't see them keeping their popularity.  A few years later, the same dealer was saying early Teen Titans would duplicate the success of the X-Men.

Everyone has opinions, and the truth of it  is that no one knows the future. All you can do is study the past and try to apply the lessons learned. I have had some great advice from many people in the last forty years but no one in 1988  suggested stockpiling Tales to Astonish 13, and in the go-go 90s, no one was pushing NM 98 as the book to have.  NM 87 had all the buzz and some thought 100 would have legs but I honestly don't recall anyone clamoring for cases of NM 98.

Edited March 31, 2022 by shadroch

[piper]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:56 AM, Robot Man said:

I sure don’t mind owning a nice Marvel that he signed in ball point pen at the bottom of the splash page in front of me…

Yep!  I have a TOS 39 signed by Stan "the Man" on the splash page.  It's definitely a keeper.

[Roger66]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:25 PM, shadroch said:

I rememer a show around 1978 where a well meaning dealer tried to explain that trading my Classics 43 for a run of X-Men 100-115 was foolish and if I was still around in twenty years I'd regret it. He said there were tens of thousands of Xbooks and he didn't see them keeping their popularity.  A few years later, the same dealer was saying early Teen Titans would duplicated the success of the X-Men.

Everyone has opinions, and the truth of it that no one knows the future. All you can do is study the past and try to apply the lessons learned. I have had some great advice from many people in the last forty years but no one in 1988  suggested stockpiling Tales to Astonish 13, and in the gogo 90s, no one was pushing NM 98 as the book to have.  NM 87 had all the buzz and some thought 100 would have legs but I honestly don't recall anyone clamoring for cases of NM 98.

Well said - I also remember hemming and hawing not so many years ago over a FF#1 CGC blue 5.0 white pager with a $6,750.00 price tag at a NY Big Apple comic con.  It sat there for both days and then at the last hour on Sunday I picked it up and yet felt I might have overpaid for it - and we know how this story ended... 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Roger66

[Robot Man]

On 3/31/2022 at 2:09 PM, Roger66 said:

Well said - I also remember hemming and hawing not so many years ago over a FF#1 CGC blue 5.0 white pager with a $6,750.00 price tag at a NY Big Apple comic con.  It sat there for both days and then at the last hour on Sunday I picked it up and yet felt I might have overpaid for it - and we know how this story ended... 

I have finally learned from years of experience that over paying almost always turns into a steal in the long run. 

[Roger66]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:43 PM, Robot Man said:

I have finally learned from years of experience that over paying almost always turns into a steal in the long run. 

Would you say that same logic applies to buying a house? 

[Bird]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:50 PM, Roger66 said:

Would you say that same logic applies to buying a house? 

for decades a home price doubled every 7 years or so, then came the 1980s (or so I recall)

 

On 3/31/2022 at 7:43 PM, Robot Man said:

I have finally learned from years of experience that over paying almost always turns into a steal in the long run. 

I went to a LCS for first time in a few years and owner was antagonistic to me, saying I want to flip and won't pay market (it was out of leftfield, I thought we were good). I told him, as I bought JIM Annual 1 and IMSM 1 for price he was asking, you don't buy books to flip immediately unless you are slabbing. You buy books to sell in a few years, selling a few years ago's books now. So I agree, and that guy can go fist himself.

[Robot Man]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:50 PM, Roger66 said:

Would you say that same logic applies to buying a house? 

In my case, heck yes! 

[Robot Man]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:54 PM, Bird said:

for decades a home price doubled every 7 years or so, then came the 1980s (or so I recall)

 

I went to a LCS for first time in a few years and owner was antagonistic to me, saying I want to flip and won't pay market (it was out of leftfield, I thought we were good). I told him, as I bought JIM Annual 1 and IMSM 1 for price he was asking, you don't buy books to flip immediately unless you are slabbing. You buy books to sell in a few years, selling a few years ago's books now. So I agree, and that guy can go fist himself.

There is a local store that won’t sell to me. He knows I know the market and he doesn’t. Scared to death he might leave a little on the table. Just stupid because I am one of only a couple of people that come into his store ready to spend decent money.   

[Math Teacher]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:03 PM, zosocane said:

"Crappy GA Fawcetts"??

So that is where Will Smith learned that slapping someone is OK.

[Lazyboy]

On 3/31/2022 at 12:32 PM, Lord Gemini said:

I'm not sure your opinion matches up with the marketplace. Signed stuff on eBay seems to go for more than unsigned stuff.

I'm not sure your post matches up with logic and reason. Okay, I actually am sure... that it doesn't. Also, the facts I stated are facts, not opinions.

When signed items sell for more than their unsigned counterparts (which is not always the case), it's not because there is more demand for signed items. Even if signed items always sold for more, now and in the future, that wouldn't mean anything, in and of itself, to investors.

[Bird]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:35 PM, Robot Man said:

There is a local store that won’t sell to me. He knows I know the market and he doesn’t. Scared to death he might leave a little on the table. Just stupid because I am one of only a couple of people that come into his store ready to spend decent money.   

I was surprised, I was chill after the first few things he said were pretty aggressive, even his partner behind the counter made a face at him a few times. I said I was in a bad mood and wanted to buy some comics, and I had no interest in haggling like normal. He said he only give deals to customers, not people he hasn't seen in two years (I had even been in previous day, but he wasn't there, so I came back to see him directly). I should have replied that I expect any deals due to the money I was willing to pay, not who I was. What I did say was I never expect to quick flip a wall book, I buy them to hold a few years and then sell. But I was being asked to justify too much so won't go back. Two minutes in the car and I considered turning around to return the $400 in books but figured it wasn't worth the hassle, just move on. I was interested in many more books on his wall but he killed my enthusiasm quickly.

I don't get it. I always thought we had a symbiotic relationship and know for a long time he doesn't want to negotiate much, but he don't want my money and made that clear. I never made a killing on anything he sold me, and still have the GA stuff I got from him 5-8 years ago. (oh, he doesn't put a grade on the books or note defects on label, even cut outs, and doesn't refund if a book comes back CT, said it would not be his problem so not sure what I am missing there. cool books I guess.)

 

[Lord Gemini]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:53 PM, Lazyboy said:

I'm not sure your post matches up with logic and reason. Okay, I actually am sure... that it doesn't. Also, the facts I stated are facts, not opinions.

When signed items sell for more than their unsigned counterparts (which is not always the case), it's not because there is more demand for signed items. Even if signed items always sold for more, now and in the future, that wouldn't mean anything, in and of itself, to investors.

If they are facts, prove them. All I see is someone who is projecting their own bias onto the marketplace.

[Robot Man]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:22 PM, Bird said:

I was surprised, I was chill after the first few things he said were pretty aggressive, even his partner behind the counter made a face at him a few times. I said I was in a bad mood and wanted to buy some comics, and I had no interest in haggling like normal. He said he only give deals to customers, not people he hasn't seen in two years (I had even been in previous day, but he wasn't there, so I came back to see him directly). I should have replied that I expect any deals due to the money I was willing to pay, not who I was. What I did say was I never expect to quick flip a wall book, I buy them to hold a few years and then sell. But I was being asked to justify too much so won't go back. Two minutes in the car and I considered turning around to return the $400 in books but figured it wasn't worth the hassle, just move on. I was interested in many more books on his wall but he killed my enthusiasm quickly.

I don't get it. I always thought we had a symbiotic relationship and know for a long time he doesn't want to negotiate much, but he don't want my money and made that clear. I never made a killing on anything he sold me, and still have the GA stuff I got from him 5-8 years ago. (oh, he doesn't put a grade on the books or note defects on label, even cut outs, and doesn't refund if a book comes back CT, said it would not be his problem so not sure what I am missing there. cool books I guess.)

 

Sounds like a guy you can live without. He needs you more than you need him. And, it is none of his business what your intentions are with your purchases.

Find a dealer that is honest and wants your business…