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[Diamonddave]

Roger66 and I worked out a deal for 5 books in total, 3 from his collection +$200 in cash for grading fees and my two already graded books. Books from Roger66 were Claire Voyant 4 grade estimate by Roger66 as at least VF/NM, Teen-Age Romance 32 grade estimate by Roger66 as less than a 4.0 even if the cover was to come off completely as he acknowledged it was attached by a thread of paper to the book, 
and Fighting Yank graded CGC as a 5.0 with the possibility of grading higher with a press. My end of the trade was a Pep 27 CGC graded 3.5 and Zip Comics 31 CGC graded 6.0, total valuation of $6800. This is what I told Roger I would expect in value in return, making the trade 100% even. I asked him on more than one occasion to ensure the grade of at least the Claire Voyant 4, which he did and is notated in the screenshot of the the text messages below. 

The Claire Voyant, which was assured to me to grade a 9.0 on more than one occasion as represented in the text messages below on Feb 22, and that I'd asked for reassurance for before it was ever mailed on Feb 24 was pressed and graded as suggested by Roger66 and returned as a 6.0 and the Teen-age Romances graded and returned as a 1.8 by CGC. 

 

 

 

 

 

I have been looking to redress this with Roger66 since September of 2021, asking him repeatedly to fulfill his end of the deal to no avail. Months of calls and texts have yielded nothing but stalling on his part. The Baker was sold for $800 privately, the Fighting Yank was valued at $1600 in a package trade and the Claire Voyant 4 sold at auction for $614 via comic connect. Picture of the Claire in the 6.0 holder included below. 

 

Edited April 10 by Diamonddave

[Economy Joe]

I would have suggested that you each return the books and go back to square one but not possible now that they are sold.

What was said on the phone call the following day. A lot could have transpired in this sentence.

On 4/9/2022 at 3:57 PM, Diamonddave said:

Months of calls and texts have yielded nothing but stalling on his part.

Hopefully we will get a second side of the story to flesh it out a bit. Not doubting you but it isn't clear where it went from there.

What are you asking for to be made whole?

 

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:20 PM, Bird said:

I would have suggested that you each return the books and go back to square one but not possible now that they are sold.

What was said on the phone call the following day. A lot could have transpired in this sentence.

Hopefully we will get a second side of the story to flesh it out a bit. Not doubting you but it isn't clear where it went from there.

What are you asking for to be made whole?

 

We decided to see what the books brought at market. I'm a pretty savvy seller and I feel I got the best price I could.

[crassus]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:22 PM, Diamonddave said:

We decided to see what the books brought at market. I'm a pretty savvy seller and I feel I got the best price I could.

Hi, just to clarify, do you have a precise dollar amount that would make you whole? I gather from the narrative above, that it would be $3000, or have you both been negotiating this back and forth?

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:44 PM, crassus said:

Hi, just to clarify, do you have a precise dollar amount that would make you whole? I gather from the narrative above, that it would be $3000, or have you both been negotiating this back and forth?

I have that I've talked with Roger66 many, many times about. That figure is $2800 or a combination of books and cash. Today's call, which absolutely pushed me over the edge, he offered to send me long boxes of Bronze age books. 

Edited April 9 by Diamonddave

[crassus]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:47 PM, Diamonddave said:

I have that I've talked with Roger66 many, many times about. That figure is $2800.

Ok thanks, and as for  the  CV 4, which was supposed to be a 9.0....just so I make sure I understand, was it you or Roger66 who submitted it for  grading? i.e. did you ever see the book yourself first hand raw?

Edited April 9 by crassus

[Economy Joe]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:22 PM, Diamonddave said:

We decided to see what the books brought at market. I'm a pretty savvy seller and I feel I got the best price I could.

By "we" do you mean the Roger66 and you?

I made my suggestion not out of concern for the price you got but because in a dispute about value you can go back to square one if all else fails, that's all.

 

So did he agree to $2800 and then just stop communicating?

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:51 PM, Bird said:

By "we" do you mean the Roger66 and you?

I made my suggestion not out of concern for the price you got but because in a dispute about value you can go back to square one if all else fails, that's all.

 

So did he agree to $2800 and then just stop communicating?

Yes, Roger and I,  we've been communicating but nothing ever gets done. 

Edited April 9 by Diamonddave

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:50 PM, crassus said:

Ok thanks, and as for  the  CV 4, which was supposed to be a 9.0....just so I make sure I understand, was it you or Roger66 who submitted it for  grading? i.e. did you ever see the book yourself first hand raw?

I submitted it raw, I trusted Roger at his word. 

[crassus]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:53 PM, Diamonddave said:

I submitted it raw, I trusted Roger at his word. 

If you had handled it yourself raw, did you have no reservations about the possible outcome? Was he promising you a 9.0 after slabbing etc...or was he saying it was a 9.0 as it stood raw?

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:56 PM, crassus said:

If you had handled it yourself raw, did you have no reservations about the possible outcome? Was he promising you a 9.0 after slabbing etc...or was he saying it was a 9.0 as it stood raw?

He was promising a 9.0 at the very least after slabbing, this is why I made sure to ask him for reassurance about the grade before he ever sent it, which I documented and he doubled-down on, also documented. 

Edited April 10 by Diamonddave

[wombat]

Just seems like a horrible way to do a deal to be honest. Trying to guarantee grades and not having spelled out very specifically what the resolution would be if the grades were not as expected before hand. 

The book that graded 6.0. What did it look like in hand? Were you concerned before you sent it in?

[jsilverjanet]

Following along, a 3rd party pressed the books, is that correct?

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:16 PM, wombat said:

Just seems like a horrible way to do a deal to be honest. Trying to guarantee grades and not having spelled out very specifically what the resolution would be if the grades were not as expected before hand. 

The book that graded 6.0. What did it look like in hand? Were you concerned before you sent it in?

There was some concern yes, even before they were sent I was concerned which is why I asked for and got reassurance. 

 

On 4/9/2022 at 4:20 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Following along, a 3rd party pressed the books, is that correct?

Only the Claire, in house at Metro. 

[wombat]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:22 PM, Diamonddave said:

On 4/9/2022 at 5:16 PM, wombat said:

Just seems like a horrible way to do a deal to be honest. Trying to guarantee grades and not having spelled out very specifically what the resolution would be if the grades were not as expected before hand. 

The book that graded 6.0. What did it look like in hand? Were you concerned before you sent it in?

There was some concern yes, even before they were sent I was concerned which is why I asked for and got reassurance. 

 

If you had the book in hand and still had concerns it seems like that was the point where specifics should have been discussed or you should have agreed to return the book at that point. I'm not absolving the seller of possibly misrepresenting the grade, but at some point you also have to protect yourself. 

[jsilverjanet]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:22 PM, Diamonddave said:

Only the Claire, in house at Metro.

Any possibility that the book got damaged by metro or getting to metro

what was the estimate they gave or you gave
 

to me there is a big difference in grade from 9.0 to 6.0 that should have been caught prior 

regardless if there was an agreement it should be honored 

have you notified roger66 of this thread 

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:38 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Any possibility that the book got damaged by metro or getting to metro

what was the estimate they gave or you gave
 

to me there is a big difference in grade from 9.0 to 6.0 that should have been caught prior 

regardless if there was an agreement it should be honored 

have you notified roger66 of this thread 

He has been notified and acknowledged.

There is no possibility of being damaged at Metro, I watched it through the entire process. Handed it to the presser myself.

[Ryan.]

So two people looked at a raw book, determined it was a 9.0, and after a press it came back a 6.0? Something is missing in this chain of events. Either the book was damaged in the press or other handling, or both parties are bad graders. 

[Roger66]

Hello, 

Here is my initial response.  I never agreed to pay David $2,800.00 to recoup his stated loss here, however, I trust him that this is the dollar amount he believes will make him whole from what turned out to be a unbalanced trade that was in-fact concluded in February of 2021 - over 13 months ago. 

What truly concerns me in addition to the age of this trade and the late notices that followed (he 1st texted me about the CV4's post press & CGC grade in September - over 6 months after receipt of the book)  - was what followed on his end after he received my raw books, which I believe(d) were in fact the grades I gave them and which I assumed David agreed with upon his initial inspection prior to his submitting them and his sending off the CV4 for a press. 

What I don't like about this situation is that one book (the Baker) despite its' cover hanging on was in fact acknowledged as still hanging on when David received it and mailed it to CGC - thus it was damaged by a third party.  What I also don't like is that the CV4, which I believe David agreed with my grade-call despite any reservations - was how it was possibly pressed - yes it came back a low 6.0 but was it pressed badly (?) and damaged I have to earnestly wonder... here are the grader notes provided to me by David that stated "multiple tiny hole spine - wear spine."  I remember no tiny holes in the spine when I had it in hand - none. 

David then auctioned one or more of these books to recoup money at the end of 2021 and when he advised me of the final hammer prices - we both agreed that the prices seemed too low.  Regarding the Fighting Yank, which was a CGC graded book - I don't think it was cracked and re-graded as expected on his end because if memory serves me correct I saw it on Superworld's site at a price less than we both initially valued it at at the start of the trade. 

I am sorry about how this trade turned out for David and I did offer to buy some of his existing raw comics at prices I would never ordinarily pay for them just to help him recoup some money but that did not work out because his asking prices were just too high for me.  I like David very much (I still do despite this) and our past history prior to this trade was stellar. If you don't know David - he is a wonderful individual.  I am more than willing to have a 3rd party on the Boards moderate this privately and see what his or her opinion is too.  There is more I can and will add but I will start with this - I did not misrepresent the raw grades (and I am sure David knows that) and 2 of my raw books may have in fact been damaged by a third party after they left David's hand. Is that my burden to bear? Thank you. 

Sincerely yours,

Roger 

Edited April 9 by Roger66

[Diamonddave]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:44 PM, Ryan. said:

So two people looked at a raw book, determined it was a 9.0, and after a press it came back a 6.0? Something is missing in this chain of events. Either the book was damaged in the press or other handling, or both parties are bad graders. 

No, I had reservations from the beginning, and I asked for reassurance from Roger66. He reassured me and said if it came back lower he would make it right.