WB's BARBIE THE MOVIE starring Margot Robbie (2023) 7 7

[Dr. Love]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:24 PM, CAHokie said:

A list of the top shows streaming on Netflix is a weird argument against a show….not streaming on Netflix.

Lol. Quite the unforced error. A lowly paralegal would have shown more focused research skills!  I expect we will remain unabashed?

Duck, you do deserve a little leg pulling after chiding Billy. I take it you are unfamiliar with Sheridan's body of western work? No Wind River or Hell or High Water? No Yellowstone, 1883, or 1923? 

 

 

[bronze_rules]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:58 PM, sfcityduck said:

I'm not seeing any of his shows in the Top 25 right now. https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/popular-tv-shows/  Or any other westerns.

Nor do I see them in the Top 15 All-Time shows streamed on Netflix:

1. Squid Game season 1: 2.2 billion hours

2. Stranger Things season 4: 1.83 billion hours

3. Wednesday: 1.71 billion hours

4. Dahmer – Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story: 1.03 billion hours

5. Bridgerton season 1: 929.3 million hours

6. Money Heist part 5: 900.7 million hours

7. The Night Agent: 803.2 million hours

8. Bridgerton season 2: 797.2 million hours

9. The Queen's Gambit: 746.4 million hours

10. Stranger Things season 3: 716.1 million hours

11. Money Heist part 4: 710.2 million hours

12. All Of Us Are Dead season 1: 679.3 million hours

13. The Witcher season 1: 663.6 million hours

14. Lucifer season 5: 569.5 million hours

15. Queen Charlotte: 520.6 million hours

 

Which does not mean you can't make good westerns that people enjoy.  Just that it appears to be a much tougher genre to sell than superheroes, bodice rippers, SF, weird/horror, and many other types of shows.

Taylor Sheridon's shows have been extremely successful (Not just Yellowstone, but many spinoffs, and LIoness is already on Rotton Tomatoes top list). I tend to think 1923 has the best romance storyline since Titanic.  They are not on Netflix, as likely they didn't meet a payment agreement. Take a look at Variety here...

Most Popular TV Shows of 2021-22, From 'Yellowstone' to 'NCIS' - Variety

Looking at some of your posts, I tend to think that a good story is a good story regardless of period or genre. Unforgiven, was about a period long past, but the characters, storytelling, and filming were fantastic. I haven't watched Barbie,but would be surprised if it was anywhere near Unforgiven in terms of a good picture.

Alas, I admit I don't get a lot of films success factors nowadays, but I do have a lot of grounding in screenwriting and storytelling. I think good storytelling hasn't changed all that much. 

I also agree that Westerns are a harder sell than Superheroes and maybe SciFi though. For one Westerns aren't that dependent on catchy explosions and flashy special effects - they are more story oriented. I think this generation's attention span is shorter and more visually demanding than the past.  From what little I've seen, Barbie seems to have a very unique and colorful set and milieu. One positive thing it has going is the uniqueness.

I haven't seen Mario Brother's either, but think its success can be attributed to good storytelling (along the lines of Diisney classics - hero's journey) along with nostalgia for gamers.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by bronze_rules

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 4:12 PM, bronze_rules said:

 

Looking at some of your posts, I tend to think that a good story is a good story regardless of period or genre. Unforgiven, was about a period long past, but the characters, storytelling, and filming were fantastic. I haven't watched Barbie,but would be surprised if it was anywhere near Unforgiven in terms of a good picture.

Alas, I admit I don't get a lot of films success factors nowadays, but I do have a lot of grounding in screenwriting and storytelling. I think good storytelling hasn't changed all that much. 

I also agree that Westerns are a harder sell than Superheroes and maybe SciFi though. For one Westerns aren't that dependent on catchy explosions and flashy special effects - they are more story oriented. I think this generation's attention span is shorter and more visually demanding than the past.  From what little I've seen, Barbie seems to have a very unique and colorful set and milieu. One positive thing it has going is the uniqueness.

I haven't seen Mario Brother's either, but think its success can be attributed to good storytelling (along the lines of Diisney classics - hero's journey) along with nostalgia for gamers.

 

If you watched it, maybe you wind find yourself surprised. I'm not sure why multiple people here think it is credibility enhancing to bash Barbie without even seeing it.

I don't think it is at all controversial to view Westerns as a fringe genre these days.  They ruled the roost long ago, but now many other genres are far more popular. It never occurred to me there were folks who thought Westerns were still a dominant genre. 

You guys have identified one guy's Westerns as an exception to what I see as a rule. The highest grossing movie list is incredibly strong evidence that audiences aren't being drawn to Westerns the way they are to superheroes, SciFi, spy movies, war movies, adventure, fantasy, etc.  The Netflix chart has no Westerns, and that's telling. The guy on Peacock may be getting some traction, but apparently few others are. RomComs have multiple tv channels these days and are a mainstay in movies. 

The derailment of this thread about Barbie with nostalgia for Westerns is incredibly strange given Barbie's very high critic and audience reviews, what appears likely to be over a $1B gross (twice any Western, right?), and the fact that we all know that Westerns have been on the descent since the 60s. Heck, the best movie I've seen related to Westerns was QT's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood but that touched on the decline of Westerns.

Edited July 30, 2023 by sfcityduck

[CAHokie]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:48 PM, sfcityduck said:

I don't think it is at all controversial to view Westerns as a fringe genre these days

Oh, for sure this is not the age of Westerns. I don’t think anyone would argue that. For the number 1 show to be a Western though shows that if a good one is written, people will embrace it.

On 7/30/2023 at 7:48 PM, sfcityduck said:

The guy on Peacock may be getting some traction

I would say its more than a little traction.

On 7/30/2023 at 7:48 PM, sfcityduck said:

It never occurred to me there were folks who thought Westerns were still a dominant genre.

I have seen no one say or imply anything of the sort. Did I miss those posts?

[drotto]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:48 PM, sfcityduck said:

If you watched it, maybe you wind find yourself surprised.

I don't think it is at all controversial to view Westerns as a fringe genre these days.  They ruled the roost long ago, but now many other genres are far more popular.

You guys have identified one guy's series of Westerns as an exception to what I see as a rule. The highest grossing movie list is incredibly strong evidence that audiences aren't being drawn to Westerns the way they are to superheroes, SciFi, spy movies, war movies, adventure, fantasy, etc.  The Netflix chart has no Westerns, and that's telling. The guy on Peacock may be getting some traction, but apparently few others are. RomComs have multiple tv channels these days and are a mainstay in movies. 

The derailment of this thread about Barbie with nostalgia for Westerns is incredibly strange given Barbie's very high critic and audience reviews, what appears likely to be over a $1B gross (twice any Western, right?), and the fact that we all know that Westerns have been on the descent since the 60s. Heck, the best movie I've seen related to Westerns was QT's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood but that wasn't a Western at all. It never occurred to me there were folks who thought Westerns were still a dominant genre.

He is just saying he doubts it is on the level of Unforgiven.  I do not think anyone here has said Barbie should not have been made, that it has not done extremely well, and it obviously has an audience.  They are just saying they personally like Westerns better, and do not have a desire to see Barbie.  It is a handful of peoples personal taste, not an attack on Barbie.  You are on a COMIC BOOK site, I think it is a very logical to think people here are not this movies target audience.  It's OK that the movie is not for them, and they should not feel under obligation or pressure to see it. It's great that this movie has made a lot of people happy. It has found a mainly female audience that I believe has been neglected over the last 15 years with the almost blanket dominance of comic book movies. Also, T\theaters need movies to make money again, so it benefits general movie fans in that respect. The highest grossing movie of all time is still Gone with the Wind.  This is the top 10 list of all time adjusted for inflation and ticket prices in 2022.  This is from Box Office Mojo.

 

Title	Adj. Lifetime Gross	Lifetime Gross	Est. Num Tickets	Year

1	Gone with the Wind	$1,895,421,694	$200,882,193	202,286,200	1939
2	Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope	$1,668,979,715	$460,998,507	178,119,500	1977
3	The Sound of Music	$1,335,086,324	$159,287,539	142,485,200	1965
4	E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial	$1,329,174,791	$437,141,279	141,854,300	1982
5	Titanic	$1,270,101,626	$674,292,608	135,549,800	1997
6	The Ten Commandments	$1,227,470,000	$65,500,000	131,000,000	1956
7	Jaws	$1,200,856,389	$265,859,065	128,159,700	1975
8	Doctor Zhivago	$1,163,149,635	$111,721,910	124,135,500	1965
9	The Exorcist	$1,036,314,504	$233,005,644	110,599,200	1973
10	Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs	$1,021,330,000	$184,925,486	109,000,000	1937

Edited July 31, 2023 by drotto

[bronze_rules]

On 7/30/2023 at 4:48 PM, sfcityduck said:

If you watched it, maybe you wind find yourself surprised. I'm not sure why multiple people here think it is credibility enhancing to bash Barbie without even seeing it.

I don't think it is at all controversial to view Westerns as a fringe genre these days.  They ruled the roost long ago, but now many other genres are far more popular. It never occurred to me there were folks who thought Westerns were still a dominant genre. 

You guys have identified one guy's Westerns as an exception to what I see as a rule. The highest grossing movie list is incredibly strong evidence that audiences aren't being drawn to Westerns the way they are to superheroes, SciFi, spy movies, war movies, adventure, fantasy, etc.  The Netflix chart has no Westerns, and that's telling. The guy on Peacock may be getting some traction, but apparently few others are. RomComs have multiple tv channels these days and are a mainstay in movies. 

The derailment of this thread about Barbie with nostalgia for Westerns is incredibly strange given Barbie's very high critic and audience reviews, what appears likely to be over a $1B gross (twice any Western, right?), and the fact that we all know that Westerns have been on the descent since the 60s. Heck, the best movie I've seen related to Westerns was QT's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood but that touched on the decline of Westerns.

I'll definitely watch Barbie. I've heard some really good things about it. I just don't expect it to get any academy awards for acting or story (like numerous Westerns mentioned). But I agree, that's a pre bias upfront. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by bronze_rules

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:03 PM, drotto said:

He is just saying he doubts it is on the level of Unforgiven.  I do not think anyone here has said Barbie should not have been made, that it has not done extremely well, and it obviously has an audience.  They are just saying they personally like Westerns better, and do not have a desire to see Barbie.  It is a handful of peoples personal taste, not an attack on Barbie.  You are on a COMIC BOOK site, I think it is a very logical to think people here are not this movies target audience.  It's OK that the movie is not for them, and they should not feel under obligation or pressure to see it. It's great that this movie has made a lot of people happy. It has found a mainly female audience that I believe has been neglected over the last 15 years with the almost blanket dominance of comic book movies. Also, T\theaters need movies to make money again, so it benefits general movie fans in that respect. The highest grossing movie of all time is still Gone with the Wind.  T

* "I do not think anyone here has said Barbie should not have been made, that it has not done extremely well, and it obviously has an audience."

Some folks on this thread do appear to feel Barbie should not have been made because they are offended by its content.  

* "They are just saying they personally like Westerns better, and do not have a desire to see Barbie."

And the point of harping on that in a Barbie thread is? Seriously, what's the point of derailing the thread with Westerns talk?  Create a Western's thread. It seems a bit passive aggressive to say the least. Especially when what is being championed is one of the most underrated or ignored comic genres - especially given how many such comics were put out.

* "You are on a COMIC BOOK site, I think it is a very logical to think people here are not this movies target audience."

Generally, toys and comics go hand in hand. Barbie was one of the most successful toys ever. That may be the reason why Dell gave Barbie and Ken a run in 1962-1964 and why Marvel put out two comic series 1991-1996 (63 issues and 53 issues, respectively). She did better than Hot Wheels in the comic market (6 issues). Personally, my view is most comic fans have wide and eclectic tastes. We like a wide array of genres, including toy comics and Westerns (neither of which are the most popular with most collectors). And there are more women who have read comics than you think. So the notion that people on this site aren't the target of this movie makes as much sense to me as saying comic fans only like superhero movies. Neither is true.

Edited July 31, 2023 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:30 PM, bronze_rules said:

I'll definitely watch Barbie. I've heard some really good things about it. I just don't expect it to get any academy awards for acting or story (like numerous Westerns mentioned). But I agree, that's a pre bias upfront. 

It may get an academy award for something (I would not think acting, but Gosling is getting rave reviews), and I've heard the -script is quite clever as the direction must also be.  But who can say?  The awards season is a long long way away. Ever since LOTR cleaned up, my view of what kind of movies can win awards has broadened considerably. Successful movies can win these days. 

[Straw-Man]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:44 PM, sfcityduck said:

* "I do not think anyone here has said Barbie should not have been made, that it has not done extremely well, and it obviously has an audience."

Some folks on this thread do appear to feel Barbie should not have been made because they are offended by its content.  

* "They are just saying they personally like Westerns better, and do not have a desire to see Barbie."

And the point of harping on that in a Barbie thread is? Seriously, what's the point of derailing the thread with Westerns talk?  Create a Western's thread. It seems a bit passive aggressive to say the least. Especially when what is being championed is one of the most underrated or ignored comic genres - especially given how many such comics were put out.

* "You are on a COMIC BOOK site, I think it is a very logical to think people here are not this movies target audience."

Generally, toys and comics go hand in hand. Barbie was one of the most successful toys ever. That may be the reason why Dell gave Barbie and Ken a run in 1962-1964 and why Marvel put out two comic series 1991-1996 (63 issues and 53 issues, respectively). She did better than Hot Wheels in the comic market (6 issues). Personally, my view is most comic fans have wide and eclectic tastes. We like a wide array of genres, including toy comics and Westerns (neither of which are the most popular with most collectors). And there are more women who have read comics than you think. So the notion that people on this site aren't the target of this movie makes as much sense to me as saying comic fans only like superhero movies. Neither is true.

we're passive-agressive, fellas.   i'm going to find a YouTube piece that will help me with that, and plan to watch it tomorrow while taking care of the morning constitutional.  my posts after @7 a.m. will hopefully demonstrate the new me.

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 7/30/2023 at 8:30 PM, bronze_rules said:

I'll definitely watch Barbie. I've heard some really good things about it. I just don't expect it to get any academy awards for acting or story (like numerous Westerns mentioned). But I agree, that's a pre bias upfront. 

The guy playing Ken will be nominated for a Oscar. This movie is that good. There is a reason why it will clear 1 billion box office unlike the Flash. 

[drotto]

On 7/30/2023 at 9:37 PM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

The guy playing Ken will be nominated for a Oscar. This movie is that good. There is a reason why it will clear 1 billion box office unlike the Flash. 

Should we recognize the irony of the Oscar talk for Barbie centering around the male role?

[kimik]

On 7/30/2023 at 4:24 PM, CAHokie said:

A list of the top shows streaming on Netflix is a weird argument against a show….not streaming on Netflix.

I was going to point that out. Yellowstone is on Paramount.

[kimik]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:58 PM, sfcityduck said:

I'm not seeing any of his shows in the Top 25 right now. https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/popular-tv-shows/  Or any other westerns.

That must be a recent article as Yellowstone is at the top or top 5 at worst when its new seasons/episodes drop. Yellowstone, and Yellowstone 1923, are in between seasons right now. I really want them to get the second season of 1923 out fast so we can see how Spencer takes being the biggest badazz to another level.........

[drotto]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:44 PM, kimik said:

That must be a recent article as Yellowstone is at the top or top 5 at worst when its new seasons/episodes drop. Yellowstone, and Yellowstone 1923, are in between seasons right now. I really want them to get the second season of 1923 out fast so we can see how Spencer takes being the biggest badazz to another level.........

Personally, 1923 is my favorite part of the Yellowstone universe so far.  The show is getting hobbled a bit right now with the strikes and the contract dispute with Costner.

[kimik]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:09 PM, drotto said:

Personally, 1923 is my favorite part of the Yellowstone universe so far.  The show is getting hobbled a bit right now with the strikes and the contract dispute with Costner.

1923 is my favourite. I really hope they expand on it for a few seasons. That was the mistake they made with 1883 - one season and done instead of building it out further. Heck, they could have had an Oregon spin-off as well.

Edited July 31, 2023 by kimik

[drotto]

On 7/31/2023 at 12:12 AM, kimik said:

1923 is my favourite. I really hope they expand on it for a few seasons. That was the mistake they made with 1883 - one season and done instead of building it out further. Heck, they could have had an Oregon spin-off as well.

Apparently, Sheridan kept the daughter's death secret from the higher ups at Paramount, and were really ticked off when they found out.  They hard already greenlit season two internally.  When he refused to change that they tried to convince him to reverse Sam Elliot's character's death in the hope of building a season two around him. There are plans for another show in that time period based around Walter Burton, the real life first black sheriff in the US.

 

Ford and Mirran are stellar in 1923.  But I really love Spencer and Alexandra, the chemistry between the characters and story arc so far are great. I am also frustrated that we have not seen them interact with the main family. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by drotto

[Dr. Love]

Zoe Saldana in Special Ops: Lioness, Sheridan's latest project on Paramont, is fantastic btw. Gamora was not the best use of her talent. Sheridan's done the writing so far, 3 episodes up, top notch, and as usual his casting choices are superb.

[kimik]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:22 PM, drotto said:

Apparently, Sheridan kept the daughter's death secret from the higher ups at Paramount, and were really ticked off when they found out.  They hard already greenlit season two internally.  When he refused to change that they tried to convince him to reverse Sam Elliot's character's death in the hope of building a season two around him. There are plans for another show in that time period based around Walter Burton, the real life first black sheriff in the US.

 

Ford and Mirran are stellar in 1923.  But I really love Spencer and Alexandra, the chemistry between the characters and story arc so far are great. I am also frustrated that we have not seen them interact with the main family. 

It was a waste of 1883. The show had a ton of promise. They could have strung it out a bit and still had the daughter die in a later season.

Spencer is my favourite character in all of the shows so far. I am curious to see how they play out the whole story between him and Alexandra. Couldn't she just buy the entire region and set the family up for generations to come?

 

[sfcityduck]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:41 PM, drotto said:

Should we recognize the irony of the Oscar talk for Barbie centering around the male role?

What irony? Equality of opportunity is a two way street. No irony when the male supporting character in Everything won an Oscar. I suspect the female director and writers for Barbie also have a strong shot. This Western talk on a Barbie thread suggests a bigger irony: Barbie is threatening. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by sfcityduck

[TupennyConan]

On 7/31/2023 at 4:12 AM, sfcityduck said:

This Western talk on a Barbie thread suggests a bigger irony: Barbie is threatening.