Book Sold With Missing Page - Who Is Responsible? 7 7

[Math Teacher]

This a hypothetical situation.

Let's say I purchased a book on IG. When the seller listed the book, there was no information included about a missing page. I received the book, and I made a major mistake - I forgot to count the pages. Within a couple of weeks and without removing the book from its bag, I sent the book to Joey Post for pressing/cleaning. When Joey was finished with the book, it was dropped off at CGC. Between Joey and CGC, the whole process took approximately nine months. When the book was returned, I was disappointed to find that it received a 0.5, as it was missing page.

I will fully admit that I am partially to blame for this problem. I should have taken the time to open the book and count the pages. This was a terrible mistake, and it is one that I will never repeat. However, I don't think that I should shoulder all the blame for this problem. If the seller had informed me that the book was missing a page, I would have never bought it.

The major snafu in all of this is the turnaround time between Joey and CGC. I am in no way complaining about either Joey or CGC, as I honestly expected to receive the book sometime in June. When the seller was informed about this issue, s/he stated that it was far too late for her/him to return the book from the person s/he purchased it from, and s/he stated that there was nothing s/he could do.

To me, the seller and I should both share the responsibility of this mistake. Yes, I should have opened the book up and counted the pages. However, the seller should have disclosed the missing page of the book prior to offering it for sale. 

In your opinion, how should this situation be handled? Should I have to just eat the purchase price and grading fees, or should the seller be willing to refund some money?

FYI - Some time ago, I purchased two Atlas Black Knight books from @jimjum12. jimjum12 guaranteed that if any was any restoration found, I could send the book back to him and he would refund my money. Fortunately, no restoration was found, and we were both were happy. Of course, this was back in 2020, when the turnaround times of Joey and CGC were considerably less than they are now. However, I had no doubt that jimjum12 would have refunded my money, even after 6+ months. 

Anyway, I would like to hear your thoughts on this hypothetical situation.

[StillOnly25Cents]

I don’t like that this scenario ever comes up because no one really wins in the end

ultimately I believe it is up to the buyer to inspect their purchase within a reasonable amount of time in order to request a return/refund

YMMV on what you consider a reasonable amount of time, often it helps when a seller  discloses upfront what their return policy is and how many days you have

in the above hypothetical, I believe it would have been up to you to count the pages before breaking the chain of custody, the fact it wasn’t caught by an experienced presser (hypothetically) would also worry me (would you request a partial/full refund from the presser? …maybe another question)

assume everything is being sold “as is” unless stated otherwise ….  if the book being sold was a 5,000 page novel that a seller was reselling and never read would you expect that they should count every page before selling?
 

they also have to trust that you did not just tear out a page because you expected a book in better condition
 

only deal with people you know if you want the kind of resolution stated in regards to jimjum12 but if you are working with “strangers” don’t expect the same

 

TLDR: I would not offer you a refund (partial or full) as the seller in this hypothetical scenario

Edited May 7, 2022 by StillOnly25Cents

[Grendel72]

The time from receipt of the book to the discovery of the missing page was 9 months. Imagine if it was 2 yrs and you discovered it. Would you expect the seller to refund some money ? Furthermore you know you are speaking the truth but why should you assume that the seller should believe you ? Lastly the book left your care and has been handled by several people. Who knows what could have happened and to categorically state that the seller is responsible is unfair.  Any type of refund by the seller would really be more of a goodwill gesture than an obligation. Its just a lesson learnt for the buyer. 

 

[zzutak]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:18 AM, Math Teacher said:

When the seller was informed about this issue, s/he stated that it was far too late for her/him to return the book from the person s/he purchased it from, and s/he stated that there was nothing s/he could do.

This is a specious argument.  This is a transaction between two parties, not three.  Your counterparty may or may not feel obliged to stand behind his/her sale, but his/her response as a seller is 100% on him/her.  Responsible adults do not attempt to shift blame. 

[Bird]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:18 PM, Math Teacher said:

The major snafu in all of this is the turnaround time between Joey and CGC

I disagree. The major snafu is you submitted a book you did not inspect. You are more responsible here than either joey and/or cgc, who only process what you give them and bear no responsibility for not noting a missing page. You shoulder all blame for submitting a book with a missing page.

Blame for the earlier transaction when you purchased said book is completely different and does not move forward with the book.

Hypothetically.

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

Unfortunately IMO I would take this as paying for education.  Some lessons are more expensive to learn. It really sucks when this kind of thing happens, but as you said now you will be more vigilant in your assessment of future purchases.  So the education you acquired from this experience may save you from a more costly future mistake. 

[grendelbo]

I would blame myself.

[rexinnih]

I've had this happen in the past and unfortunately I don't find out until years after the raw purchase when I get the comic back from CGC. I look at it as my issue for not inspecting the raw as soon as I get it. Can't follow up with the seller years after. 

Does make me look to buy already graded comics for keys. 

[Bird]

unless joey ripped out the page himself he is as relevant here as the postman who picked it up from you, just someone in the chain

[speedcake]

If this happened to me, I would consider myself to be fully to blame. It would have been I who did not inspect the book as soon as I received it. It would have been on me to contact the seller as soon as possible about any issues I found with the book.  

Sellers make mistakes, sell books with flaws they missed, and should be given a chance to rectify those instances but certainly within a reasonable timeframe and not after several months and the book having passed through multiple hands. 

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:48 AM, zzutak said:

This is a specious argument.  This is a transaction between two parties, not three.  Your counterparty may or may not feel obliged to stand behind his/her sale, but his/her response as a seller is 100% on him/her.  Responsible adults do not attempt to shift blame. 

I would like a clarification of your response. When you state that "Responsible adults do not attempt to shift blame.", is it safe to assume that you feel that I am attempting to shift blame on to the seller?

[darkstar]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:18 AM, Math Teacher said:

If the seller had informed me that the book was missing a page, I would have never bought it.

Most comic transactions do not involve the seller actually doing a page count. 

[StillOnly25Cents]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:05 PM, darkstar said:

Most comic transactions do not involve the seller actually doing a page count. 

yes, be careful what you wish for

if this were “required” it would be a much smaller marketplace 

[Math Teacher]

I understand what you're saying about the chain of possession. However, I seriously doubt that Joey or CGC would just randomly tear a page from the book.

Also, I am no way trying to assess blame onto Joey or CGC. I knew what the turnaround time would be when I sent the book in. Nor do I feel that either is responsible for checking if there was a missing page. That was my mistake, one which I have fully owned up to.

As @onlyweaknesskryptonite, I am going to have to chalk this up as a expensive lesson.

[StillOnly25Cents]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:11 PM, Math Teacher said:

I understand what you're saying about the chain of possession. However, I seriously doubt that Joey or CGC would just randomly tear a page from the book.

Also, I am no way trying to assess blame onto Joey or CGC. I knew what the turnaround time would be when I sent the book in. Nor do I feel that either is responsible for checking if there was a missing page. That was my mistake, one which I have fully owned up to.

As @onlyweaknesskryptonite, I am going to have to chalk this up as a expensive lesson.

I thought this was a hypothetical? 

[Math Teacher]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:05 PM, darkstar said:

Most comic transactions do not involve the seller actually doing a page count. 

So, am I to understand that you are just fine with sellers selling incomplete books without identifying the flaws? You wouldn't think less of a seller if s/he sold you a book with no back cover, especially if wasn't mentioned in his/her post. I count the pages of every book that I sell. I don't do this because I am worried about the loss of the sale; I do this because I don't want to get the reputation of not being reliable. I would feel mortified if I was to sell an incomplete book to someone.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Math Teacher

[MattTheDuck]

Boy, the standards expected of sellers around here are sure low.  I'll keep that in mind as new sales threads are posted.

I couldn't live with myself if I were the seller in this situation.

[MAR1979]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:18 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Boy, the standards expected of sellers around here are sure low.  I'll keep that in mind as new sales threads are posted.

I'm am totally positive without a doubt there are honest Trading Card, Comic Book and Original Comic Art dealers!  I do hope to eventually encounter one.

Edited May 7, 2022 by MAR1979

[MAR1979]

On 5/7/2022 at 12:49 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Unfortunately IMO I would take this as paying for education.  Some lessons are more expensive to learn. It really sucks when this kind of thing happens, but as you said now you will be more vigilant in your assessment of future purchases.  So the education you acquired from this experience may save you from a more costly future mistake. 

The safest route is never purchase a raw book through any method other than in person or through a seller that you are very tight with. Still the former is safest.

Edited May 7, 2022 by MAR1979

[speedcake]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:26 PM, MAR1979 said:

The safest route is never purchase a raw book through any method other than in person or through a seller that you are very tight with. Still the former is safest.

Unless you are being sarcastic, this really is an overreaction. Plenty of reputable people out there to buy from. And even on ebay as a buyer, they bend over backward to protect you.