Question about buying collections 6 6

[Krismusic]

On 5/25/2022 at 12:25 PM, revat said:

So much of it depends on how you sell, how much time/space/money you can dedicate to it.

I haven't bought a ton of large collections but here's how I look at it, assuming they want you to buy the whole collection.

Most collections that are longboxes or more are mostly junk with a few good books sprinkled in.  So if I'm going through it...

1.  make a mental note of the good books

2.  Make a note of how much can I realistically sell those good books for (be conservative, your guessitmates could be wrong).  

3.  Calculate your preferred profit margin, then make an offer based on just the good books for the whole lot.  It might depend on dollar value, might depend on percentage profit, that's up to the individual.

4.  Explain that some books will be sold for profit, some will be kept for your collection, some will be sold at a loss, and some will probably be donated, do not be specific about what or how many.  Let them know that's why you're offering what you're offering, it takes a ton of time and effort to organize and market and sell books individually (assuming they're not already knowledgeable).  Let them know its tough to get maximum value for a big lot, because no individual would want that exact grouping of books for their personal collection, and that's who the maximum payers are, people who want books for their collection.

5.  When you make your offer, literally offer him the cash in their face, exact change, the biggest possible bills, 20's being the smallest bills you show.  It is more tempting for them when they are literally looking at a stack of cash.

6.  Mention that you will move all the boxes out today (if that's the truth).  

7.  If they deny you and you're about to leave, you can offer to leave a standing offer if it is logistically reasonable, for like a month.  "If you get a better offer than mine, of course sell to them.  But in a month if you don't, call me and I'll bring cash and my truck."

8.  Dirtier trick:  Ideally, if prospective seller have a significant other around, make your offer loud enough for them to hear, especially the part about moving all the boxes/books out TODAY.  This also works great at yard sales for nearly anything.

So this way you essentially guarantee your preferred profit, and any of the extra you sell is a bonus (or you don't mind donating it).  

Lol number 5 works very well I even go for that sometimes when u see stacks of bills hard to say no. Lol nice pro tip.

as for the dirty trick be careful it could back fire sometimes significant other might drive up the price on u or cause a discussion etc.. 

 

[Beige]

On 5/26/2022 at 2:25 AM, revat said:

 

8.  Dirtier trick:  Ideally, if prospective seller have a significant other around, make your offer loud enough for them to hear, especially the part about moving all the boxes/books out TODAY.  This also works great at yard sales for nearly anything.

 

I've done this many times - usually the push to get rid of the books is from the partner who wants more space in their home. 'Your books have to go Honey!'

Worked every time (it is a tiny bit sneaky I will admit) - try it!

 

[Bird]

each time a door closes another one opens

[Lpgk]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:46 AM, DocHoppus182 said:

Do you mean literally pulling money out and putting it on the table.  I’ve had people do this to me over the years and yes, it irritates me.  During mid-negotiation I mean.  A stack of money doesn’t impress me, especially when someone is cocky about it.

I agree. I find it insulting when they wave the cash in front of you. I've had people do that to me as a vendor at shows. I just put the short box with the good stuff back behind the table. Negotiations over. 

When I do buy collections, I stress the part about paying cash NOW and also their alternatives. Anyone not comic savvy is probably going to take their collection to a shop and I emphasize that the shop will pay 10-20 cents on the dollar, if that. Most shop are notorious for low balling. Do you really want to haul all this stuff down to the comic shop and they'll pay you only a fraction of what I am paying right here, right now in cash? 

[Lpgk]

On 5/27/2022 at 4:47 AM, ramrodcar said:

Unless the seller is a meth head, then you just get stabbed and robbed.

I agree, this tactic is trashy, especially when the seller usually has some emotional/nostalgic connection to the books they're selling.

I've won plenty of deals building a rapport with the seller and just reminiscing about THEIR collection. It's a thousand times easier to get deals done when people like each other. A tenet I remind myself in business and personal. 

[shadroch]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:18 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Anyone trying to sell a collection who allows a buyer to simply cherry pick the best books is losing money.

I don't agree with that. I can't give your figures but a made up example would be me being offered 500 books for $1,000.   I turn it down and offer $650 for 30 books.  He accepts and now asks $500 for the rest of the books. 

[lighthouse]

As a shop owner who buys 50-70 collections every month, this thread is an interesting insight into how other folks do it.

Percentages of “value” are very difficult to calculate, especially on large collections, because of the transaction cost associated with selling each book.

After processing a couple hundred thousand back issues purchased in the last few years, I can comfortably ballpark it at $1.20 in labor and materials per post-1990 book to bring a comic from “seller’s boxes” to “my retail customer’s hands”. Books from the 1980s sit around $1.60 a book due to additional labor in checking for flaws that largely don’t exist in more recent books. Books from the 70s are around $2.40 (more labor and they go in mylar  and fullback rather than bag and board). Silver are around $3.50 each (even more labor). And golden age around $6.00 each (ditto).

We pay higher rent than most shops because our location has exceptionally high foot traffic (it’s completely normal to have 500 people through the door on a Saturday). And it works out to 53 cents per year per back issue to have them displayed. A cheap rent store is likely still paying around 20-25 cents per year.

A $3 back issue from the 1990s that took me six months to sell has cost me $1.46 in direct costs to get it from purchase to sale, completely separate from what I paid for the comic itself. It’s not surprising then to find that such issues wholesale around a nickel a book. That’s the true wholesale value. A dealer who dumps said book at a show for a buck has put about 45 cents in labor and rent into the book to have it available in an unsorted bulk box in a twenty year old bag. He’s doubling his money at a buck. Same as I am at $3 in a fresh and clean bag and board perfectly organized in a well lit store.

These costs are largely the same for a $16 issue from the 90s. Which is why a buy price on such an issue can get significantly closer to half. The fixed costs remain the same and the true wholesale climbs from a nickel to $6 or so (for a book that will sell “quickly” and isn’t already well stocked).

A $600 golden age book? The $6 in labor and gerber costs are essentially irrelevant. They aren’t a factor in the dealer determining whether to pay 50, 60, 70, or 80% of “value” for the book. But a long box of $3 books from the 90s? Even ones that will actually sell in six months and aren’t in stock? “Ten percent of the value” is too much to pay. Thirty cents a book for such items is far too high a price to remain profitable.

And none of this takes into account opportunity cost, which is the only cost that ever matters. Paying “5 cents on the dollar” for a long box of $3 books from the 90s is losing money if the spot on the table where they would go is already generating $1800 a year per long box in profits. It’s more profitable to buy those comics and immediately throw them in a dumpster than to replace inventory that actually sells.

When customers bring this sort of stuff in to sell? I usually explain the economics to them, suggest alternative venues, and then give them 100 free comics from the same time period. “Add these to your pile when you go to sell them and hopefully you’ll get a little more.” The goodwill is worth far more to me than what the comics would ever bring. And they show up by the hundreds every month in collections of stuff I actually do want to buy.

[Beastfeast]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:26 PM, lighthouse said:

As a shop owner who buys 50-70 collections every month, this thread is an interesting insight into how other folks do it.

Percentages of “value” are very difficult to calculate, especially on large collections, because of the transaction cost associated with selling each book.

After processing a couple hundred thousand back issues purchased in the last few years, I can comfortably ballpark it at $1.20 in labor and materials per post-1990 book to bring a comic from “seller’s boxes” to “my retail customer’s hands”. Books from the 1980s sit around $1.60 a book due to additional labor in checking for flaws that largely don’t exist in more recent books. Books from the 70s are around $2.40 (more labor and they go in mylar  and fullback rather than bag and board). Silver are around $3.50 each (even more labor). And golden age around $6.00 each (ditto).

We pay higher rent than most shops because our location has exceptionally high foot traffic (it’s completely normal to have 500 people through the door on a Saturday). And it works out to 53 cents per year per back issue to have them displayed. A cheap rent store is likely still paying around 20-25 cents per year.

A $3 back issue from the 1990s that took me six months to sell has cost me $1.46 in direct costs to get it from purchase to sale, completely separate from what I paid for the comic itself. It’s not surprising then to find that such issues wholesale around a nickel a book. That’s the true wholesale value. A dealer who dumps said book at a show for a buck has put about 45 cents in labor and rent into the book to have it available in an unsorted bulk box in a twenty year old bag. He’s doubling his money at a buck. Same as I am at $3 in a fresh and clean bag and board perfectly organized in a well lit store.

These costs are largely the same for a $16 issue from the 90s. Which is why a buy price on such an issue can get significantly closer to half. The fixed costs remain the same and the true wholesale climbs from a nickel to $6 or so (for a book that will sell “quickly” and isn’t already well stocked).

A $600 golden age book? The $6 in labor and gerber costs are essentially irrelevant. They aren’t a factor in the dealer determining whether to pay 50, 60, 70, or 80% of “value” for the book. But a long box of $3 books from the 90s? Even ones that will actually sell in six months and aren’t in stock? “Ten percent of the value” is too much to pay. Thirty cents a book for such items is far too high a price to remain profitable.

And none of this takes into account opportunity cost, which is the only cost that ever matters. Paying “5 cents on the dollar” for a long box of $3 books from the 90s is losing money if the spot on the table where they would go is already generating $1800 a year per long box in profits. It’s more profitable to buy those comics and immediately throw them in a dumpster than to replace inventory that actually sells.

When customers bring this sort of stuff in to sell? I usually explain the economics to them, suggest alternative venues, and then give them 100 free comics from the same time period. “Add these to your pile when you go to sell them and hopefully you’ll get a little more.” The goodwill is worth far more to me than what the comics would ever bring. And they show up by the hundreds every month in collections of stuff I actually do want to buy.

Ridiculously great insight.  Thanks.  

[Lpgk]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:26 PM, lighthouse said:

As a shop owner who buys 50-70 collections every month, this thread is an interesting insight into how other folks do it.

Percentages of “value” are very difficult to calculate, especially on large collections, because of the transaction cost associated with selling each book.

After processing a couple hundred thousand back issues purchased in the last few years, I can comfortably ballpark it at $1.20 in labor and materials per post-1990 book to bring a comic from “seller’s boxes” to “my retail customer’s hands”. Books from the 1980s sit around $1.60 a book due to additional labor in checking for flaws that largely don’t exist in more recent books. Books from the 70s are around $2.40 (more labor and they go in mylar  and fullback rather than bag and board). Silver are around $3.50 each (even more labor). And golden age around $6.00 each (ditto).

We pay higher rent than most shops because our location has exceptionally high foot traffic (it’s completely normal to have 500 people through the door on a Saturday). And it works out to 53 cents per year per back issue to have them displayed. A cheap rent store is likely still paying around 20-25 cents per year.

A $3 back issue from the 1990s that took me six months to sell has cost me $1.46 in direct costs to get it from purchase to sale, completely separate from what I paid for the comic itself. It’s not surprising then to find that such issues wholesale around a nickel a book. That’s the true wholesale value. A dealer who dumps said book at a show for a buck has put about 45 cents in labor and rent into the book to have it available in an unsorted bulk box in a twenty year old bag. He’s doubling his money at a buck. Same as I am at $3 in a fresh and clean bag and board perfectly organized in a well lit store.

These costs are largely the same for a $16 issue from the 90s. Which is why a buy price on such an issue can get significantly closer to half. The fixed costs remain the same and the true wholesale climbs from a nickel to $6 or so (for a book that will sell “quickly” and isn’t already well stocked).

A $600 golden age book? The $6 in labor and gerber costs are essentially irrelevant. They aren’t a factor in the dealer determining whether to pay 50, 60, 70, or 80% of “value” for the book. But a long box of $3 books from the 90s? Even ones that will actually sell in six months and aren’t in stock? “Ten percent of the value” is too much to pay. Thirty cents a book for such items is far too high a price to remain profitable.

And none of this takes into account opportunity cost, which is the only cost that ever matters. Paying “5 cents on the dollar” for a long box of $3 books from the 90s is losing money if the spot on the table where they would go is already generating $1800 a year per long box in profits. It’s more profitable to buy those comics and immediately throw them in a dumpster than to replace inventory that actually sells.

When customers bring this sort of stuff in to sell? I usually explain the economics to them, suggest alternative venues, and then give them 100 free comics from the same time period. “Add these to your pile when you go to sell them and hopefully you’ll get a little more.” The goodwill is worth far more to me than what the comics would ever bring. And they show up by the hundreds every month in collections of stuff I actually do want to buy.

Good insight from a retailers perspective. Curious, of the people that walk in the door to sell collections, how many of them do you buy and how many walk out? Percentage wise. 

[Robot Man]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:44 PM, Beige said:

I've done this many times - usually the push to get rid of the books is from the partner who wants more space in their home. 'Your books have to go Honey!'

Worked every time (it is a tiny bit sneaky I will admit) - try it!

 

Worked for me last weekend…

[lighthouse]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:05 PM, Lpgk said:

Good insight from a retailers perspective. Curious, of the people that walk in the door to sell collections, how many of them do you buy and how many walk out? Percentage wise. 

We buy around 70% of the collections we look at. The remainder is about evenly split in five groups:

Absolutely worthless drek.

Books where the prospective seller has looked up eBay results for 9.8 signature series of every issue and expects 100% of that value for their unsigned raw 8.0s.

Collections where we know of another venue that will pay more than we will and we send them there. (This is usually on really common stuff where I might be 15 copies deep already and there’s a local alternative likely to pay 20c a book).

Collections of slabbed issues in combinations of grade and signature status that just wouldn’t work for our store. “Here’s a 9.8 signature series variant cover from 2006 of a title no one collects and the last eBay sale was 10 months ago at $100, would you give me $50?” “I also have a slabbed 5.5 New Mutants 86 and a 2.5 ASM 131!” *

Collections where the seller really doesn’t want to sell but wants to know if they have valuable stuff. We charge for written insurance appraisals. But casual “the ones in this pile are all around $50-100 and the rest are like five bucks each” we do that for free.

- - -

We sell more than anyone in the area and also pay more than anyone in the area. So if books are good, a deal usually gets made.
 

* this group isn’t really 6%. It’s probably more like 2%. But boy are they challenging to deal with.

Edited June 4, 2022 by lighthouse

[Axe Elf]

It almost sounds like you have to include the costs of obtaining the comic and the costs of selling the comic when determining the actual value of the comic.

That sounds SO familiar...

[Eclipse]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:21 PM, lighthouse said:

We buy around 70% of the collections we look at. The remainder is about evenly split in five groups:

Absolutely worthless drek.

Books where the prospective seller has looked up eBay results for 9.8 signature series of every issue and expects 100% of that value for their unsigned raw 8.0s.

Collections where we know of another venue that will pay more than we will and we send them there. (This is usually on really common stuff where I might be 15 copies deep already and there’s a local alternative likely to pay 20c a book).

Collections of slabbed issues in combinations of grade and signature status that just wouldn’t work for our store. “Here’s a 9.8 signature series variant cover from 2006 of a title no one collects and the last eBay sale was 10 months ago at $100, would you give me $50?” “I also have a slabbed 5.5 New Mutants 86 and a 2.5 ASM 131!” *

Collections where the seller really doesn’t want to sell but wants to know if they have valuable stuff. We charge for written insurance appraisals. But casual “the ones in this pile are all around $50-100 and the rest are like five bucks each” we do that for free.

- - -

We sell more than anyone in the area and also pay more than anyone in the area. So if books are good, a deal usually gets made.
 

* this group isn’t really 6%. It’s probably more like 2%. But boy are they challenging to deal with.

where are you located?

[lighthouse]

On 6/4/2022 at 4:24 PM, Eclipse said:

where are you located?

Northern Nevada. 

[Bird]

just bought 600 books, slightly cherry picked (he says I sold about 25 recently, some avengers and some FF and I sold the first black suit spider-man, but he is OO and not sure what that was. I asked asm300 he said "uh", likely asm252 from looks of it.) But I haven't gone through them yet, just got home and they are bagged 6-10 in a bag. I did peek into one bag that had GI Joe 20 on top, yep hot diggety! looking good STICK IT BACK IN BEFORE HE SEES YOU!

when one door closes go through the window, or whatever that saying is.

 

[PopKulture]

On 6/3/2022 at 7:26 PM, lighthouse said:

As a shop owner who buys 50-70 collections every month, this thread is an interesting insight into how other folks do it.

Percentages of “value” are very difficult to calculate, especially on large collections, because of the transaction cost associated with selling each book.

After processing a couple hundred thousand back issues purchased in the last few years, I can comfortably ballpark it at $1.20 in labor and materials per post-1990 book to bring a comic from “seller’s boxes” to “my retail customer’s hands”. Books from the 1980s sit around $1.60 a book due to additional labor in checking for flaws that largely don’t exist in more recent books. Books from the 70s are around $2.40 (more labor and they go in mylar  and fullback rather than bag and board). Silver are around $3.50 each (even more labor). And golden age around $6.00 each (ditto).

We pay higher rent than most shops because our location has exceptionally high foot traffic (it’s completely normal to have 500 people through the door on a Saturday). And it works out to 53 cents per year per back issue to have them displayed. A cheap rent store is likely still paying around 20-25 cents per year.

A $3 back issue from the 1990s that took me six months to sell has cost me $1.46 in direct costs to get it from purchase to sale, completely separate from what I paid for the comic itself. It’s not surprising then to find that such issues wholesale around a nickel a book. That’s the true wholesale value. A dealer who dumps said book at a show for a buck has put about 45 cents in labor and rent into the book to have it available in an unsorted bulk box in a twenty year old bag. He’s doubling his money at a buck. Same as I am at $3 in a fresh and clean bag and board perfectly organized in a well lit store.

These costs are largely the same for a $16 issue from the 90s. Which is why a buy price on such an issue can get significantly closer to half. The fixed costs remain the same and the true wholesale climbs from a nickel to $6 or so (for a book that will sell “quickly” and isn’t already well stocked).

A $600 golden age book? The $6 in labor and gerber costs are essentially irrelevant. They aren’t a factor in the dealer determining whether to pay 50, 60, 70, or 80% of “value” for the book. But a long box of $3 books from the 90s? Even ones that will actually sell in six months and aren’t in stock? “Ten percent of the value” is too much to pay. Thirty cents a book for such items is far too high a price to remain profitable.

And none of this takes into account opportunity cost, which is the only cost that ever matters. Paying “5 cents on the dollar” for a long box of $3 books from the 90s is losing money if the spot on the table where they would go is already generating $1800 a year per long box in profits. It’s more profitable to buy those comics and immediately throw them in a dumpster than to replace inventory that actually sells.

When customers bring this sort of stuff in to sell? I usually explain the economics to them, suggest alternative venues, and then give them 100 free comics from the same time period. “Add these to your pile when you go to sell them and hopefully you’ll get a little more.” The goodwill is worth far more to me than what the comics would ever bring. And they show up by the hundreds every month in collections of stuff I actually do want to buy.

Post-of-the-year contender!!  

That someone would take the time to share their hard-earned knowledge in such a thorough manner speaks volumes…

[Axe Elf]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:03 AM, Economy Joe said:

just bought 600 books, slightly cherry picked (he says I sold about 25 recently, some avengers and some FF and I sold the first black suit spider-man, but he is OO and not sure what that was. I asked asm300 he said "uh", likely asm252 from looks of it.) But I haven't gone through them yet, just got home and they are bagged 6-10 in a bag. I did peek into one bag that had GI Joe 20 on top, yep hot diggety! looking good STICK IT BACK IN BEFORE HE SEES YOU!

when one door closes go through the window, or whatever that saying is.

 

Looks like you'll have a new Economy Tier submission ready to go in no time!

[Bird]

why do collections I see always have Vigilante and never have Swamp Thing?

 

 

[Bird]

On 6/11/2022 at 1:38 PM, Axe Elf said:

Looks like you'll have a new Economy Tier submission ready to go in no time!

I sent joey 19 books a few months ago...2 standard, 10 modern and, you guessed it, 7 economy. set and forget. the modern has a triumph & torment tpb that I am wondering if they will slab or reject, and I want a 9.8 on that groovy daddy! my membership was expiring so I sent them off before that happened (I was assured they will be accepted since I had a membership and printed an invoice but we will see)

that was before they starting handing out ecolonostomies but no more until they clean out the system

[Rob]

I've got a question about selling collections that I'll tack on here.  I recently bought a collection of 700 comics.  Guy was selling them buy the box, and I picked the 4 best boxes.  I'm listing the best 100 or so this weekend in the VCC, possibly more in bundle deals.  They range from VG silver age to an ASM 252 in 7.5-8.0.  For the lower grade stuff, I really don't want to look up the value of each one on eBay.  Anyone have any tips for pricing?  Thinking about doing a % off of the latest Overstreet.