• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

C2E2 Variant Drama
24 24

4,556 posts in this topic

On 8/9/2022 at 9:58 PM, justafan said:

And what brand is is that exactly?  Because I honestly don't know what shred of integrity behind their brand they have left after everything we've seen in the last 24 hours. 30 books submitted to CGC with 3 different unofficial Acetate covers stapled on by a third party that isn't the publisher or original distributor of the facsimile variant without the the publisher's awareness or approval get somehow authorized to be graded and not only come back all Universal Blue but all come back with at least 1 10.0 for each of the 3 different covers, at least 3 9.9s for each of the 3 different covers (4 9.9s for one of the covers), and at least 5 9.8's for all 3 different covers.  That's 3 10.0 out of a submission of 30 books, 10 9.9's out of 30 books, and 17 9.8's when the original facsimile edition without the acetate covers previously submitted never achieved a single 9.9 or higher?  That's a ratio of 1 in 10 came back a 10.0 on a 30 book submission. 1 in 3 came back a 9.9 on a 30 book submission. and a little more than 1 in 2 got a 9.8.  That is150% success rate for books that had been sitting around for half a year and then just had aftermarket modifications in the form of 2 additional staples, 4 new holes, added to the spine causing additional stress on the original cover spine and interior pages.    That just reeks of a quid pro quo assured manufactured grade distribution, an utter disregard for their own grading standards and disrespect for every CGC submitter and collector relying on a fair and impartial grading company.  An "incorrect choice" is the understatement of the year here.  They've depreciated every 10.0, 9.9, and 9.8 book ever graded prior to this and any thereafter.  At least in the past we could chalk some gift grades and over/under grades to an off day for the grader.  But this...this just looks like systemic fraud.

image.gif.cbc8d85f6ddf94d7ae968ec24273159e.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2022 at 10:59 PM, jaxcomics said:

I doubt it. Let's leave out the fact that CGC has a multi-billion dollar company and its legal team behind it, and let's actually assume that there was some sort of tangible agreement upfront, and let's assume that it could actually be enforced... there's still the fact that any kind of threats or "demand" to CGC to make them whole in the situation would - even if they get paid - likely result in them being banned from using CGCs services at all in the future. Pretty sure that in itself would be a death sentence for Black Flag...if this entire situation doesn't do it for them.

I mean, Black Flag wouldn't even be in the wrong here, assuming they had an assurance from CGC (which, let's be real, is the only way they make this book.  You don't do something like that just hoping it's going to get a Blue Label).  You're saying essentially "well, CGC can do whatever they want and Black Flag is too small to do anything about it.  And if Black Flag tries to complain, well, CGC can just crush them like a bug." 

Which, eh.  Doesn't seem likely to me.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2022 at 11:10 PM, Axelrod said:

I mean, Black Flag wouldn't even be in the wrong here, assuming they had an assurance from CGC (which, let's be real, is the only way they make this book.  You don't do something like that just hoping it's going to get a Blue Label).  You're saying essentially "well, CGC can do whatever they want and Black Flag is too small to do anything about it.  And if Black Flag tries to complain, well, CGC can just crush them like a bug." 

Which, eh.  Doesn't seem likely to me.  

 I believe that either CGC is going to die on this hill and remain firm in their position, or they're going to reverse course, refund Black Flag for grading, and remove the books from the census. I would be absolutely floored if there's any kind of agreement in place that would make CGC culpable for "lost potential profits" on the part of Black Flag. This whole thing may be a big deal to Black Flag, but the amount of books graded (and any future business from Black Flag)  is a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket compared to CGCs overall volume. That said...I'll concede that no one knows what kind of deal may have been hammered out. But I believe that Black Flag is far, far from the driver's seat in this, no matter what happens. 

Edited by jaxcomics
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2022 at 10:44 PM, Axelrod said:

Legal angle that may not have been brought up yet, for all the people saying why can't CGC just own up to a mistake and unlist these, and maybe refund Black Flag the grading fees, etc.  

There is approximately a 0% chance that Black Flag commissioned this variant without getting an assurance from CGC ahead of time that it would get a Blue Label.  I'm not suggesting grade-buying or specific guarantees of any particular grades like some are also speculating, just, Blue Labels.  Were CGC to back out now and say, "sorry, actually we won't count these as Blue Labels anymore even though we told you we would," they would then be liable to Black Flag.  They'd have to pony up, not just the cost Black Flag paid for the commissioning and the grading, but for Black Flagg's lost profits too (and, as we have seen, these things are selling).   CGC is not going to go that much in the hole on this.  They just won't.   

BINGO! and this is the real reason these books went HOT.  Once it was proven and guaranteed that they could be graded by CGC as Universal and also achieve a 10 or 9.9 they became a sure commodity and why those IG/Whatnot/influencer folks were willing to go in and buy $10-16k worth.

However, I do disagree that they couldn't find a middle ground solution with this mess and go back on their word to Black Flag. Actually they could totally do just that and it wouldn't cost Black Flag anything he hasn't already lost in reputation from this past weekend.  Assuming they wait to announce it until after the Boston Comicon.  Once Black Flag sells out of his stock (assuming he isn't boycotted) he won't suffer any actual financial loss from CGC backing out.  In fact it may make him more money.  He's already got his graded copies that he intends to sell. It would make his copies the only graded copies available to sell and drive the value higher.  What does he care if no one else can get theirs graded after the Boston Comicon?  It makes his way more valuable with a census of only 10 for each different cover.

The fix is in and the game is rigged as we've suspected all along but now they've pretty much just rubbed it in our face. Not nice, CGC.  Not nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2022 at 10:22 PM, Troy Division said:

Just to clarify ALL these acetate books were graded on 7/28/22

Ghost Rider #1 'Zymotica Vs' Acetate Edition
Infinite Black Publishing Exclusive
4100794001 / 9.8
4100794002 / 9.8
4100794003 / 10
4100794004 / 9.9
4100794005 / 9.9
4100794006 / 9.9
4100794007 / 9.8
4100794008 / 9.8
4100794009 / 9.8
4100794010 / 9.8

Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 '99 Problems' Acetate Edition
Infinite Black Publishing Exclusive
4100794011 / 9.8
4100794012 / 9.8
4100794013 / 9.8
4100794014 / 9.9
4100794015 / 9.8
4100794016 / 9.8
4100794017 / 9.9
4100794018 / 10
4100794019 / 9.9
4100794020 / 9.8

Ultimate Fallout: Facsimile Edition #4: 'In God We Trust' Acetate Edition
Infinite Black Publishing Exclusive
4100794021 / 9.9
4100794022 / 9.9
4100794023 / 9.9
4100794024 / 9.9
4100794025 / 9.8
4100794026 / 10
4100794027 / 9.8
4100794028 / 9.8
4100794029 / 9.9
4100794030 / 9.8
 

Explains why CGC is doubling down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2022 at 8:12 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Sellers who sold on whatnot have violated their terms of service 

  • Distribute or sell counterfeit, unauthorized, stolen, B-grade, or similar non-authentic Items or NFTs;

Good point, but considering they are some of the largest sellers, I doubt that will be enforced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2022 at 8:31 PM, jaxcomics said:

Those grades are such a slap in the face to all of the collectors and dealers that have submitted for years and know how rare 9.9 and 10s are (supposed to be). :mad:

They aren’t rare, they do not exist. 9.9s and 10s are not given to the public. It is, with extremely rare exception,  a grade reserved for retailers and their exclusive covers that are sent in for mass grading

Edited by Dimez
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Starting to look pretty obvious Clayton Crain and/or Black Flag got special treatment with those 9.9's and 10.0's. 

Everything under that acetate wrap has been laying around and handled for a year before having the plastic stapled on. 

Is CGC admitting that nothing under the acetate wrap was taken into consideration for grading? 

Get real

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/9/2022 at 8:22 PM, Troy Division said:

Just to clarify ALL these acetate books were graded on 7/28/22

Ghost Rider #1 'Zymotica Vs' Acetate Edition
Infinite Black Publishing Exclusive
4100794001 / 9.8
4100794002 / 9.8
4100794003 / 10
4100794004 / 9.9
4100794005 / 9.9
4100794006 / 9.9
4100794007 / 9.8
4100794008 / 9.8
4100794009 / 9.8
4100794010 / 9.8

Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 '99 Problems' Acetate Edition
Infinite Black Publishing Exclusive
4100794011 / 9.8
4100794012 / 9.8
4100794013 / 9.8
4100794014 / 9.9
4100794015 / 9.8
4100794016 / 9.8
4100794017 / 9.9
4100794018 / 10
4100794019 / 9.9
4100794020 / 9.8

Ultimate Fallout: Facsimile Edition #4: 'In God We Trust' Acetate Edition
Infinite Black Publishing Exclusive
4100794021 / 9.9
4100794022 / 9.9
4100794023 / 9.9
4100794024 / 9.9
4100794025 / 9.8
4100794026 / 10
4100794027 / 9.8
4100794028 / 9.8
4100794029 / 9.9
4100794030 / 9.8
 

 

F6CBCE6D-A477-4A75-B092-A457C3BE4B8F.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
24 24