C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:09 AM, wiparker824 said:

Thank you for your hard work sir. This is still my favorite of these bullet points “Screen shot of direct messaging to CGC, CGC comments their "head grading team" is on the case.  Who is this mysterious head grading team?  Speculation goes wild.” I literally burst into laughter.

The head grading team.

[troydivision1]

I mentioned it in back the 'invisible' comic thread a while ago, but CGC needs a PR / Media team.
Pronto.
These (poor) decisions are being made in pursuit of more.
More money.
More market share.
More headlines / media attention.

[DrunkWooky]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:17 AM, WolverineX said:

TLDR version of the last 24 hrs please.  I can't keep up...

Here ya go! 

 

 

[KirbyTown]

On 8/11/2022 at 7:35 AM, Dr. Balls said:

A special thank you to people who are making this happen:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195268521004?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=OKeY5zHdTHy&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=klSRfU4zRnq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Figured these were total shill accounts before I checked; could they be risking theirs for the lulz? The ultimate result would be an actual purchase 🙏

 

I also like the retractions and how the original bidder was a (4) 😃

Thanks for sharing this!!

[MrBedrock]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:12 AM, ygogolak said:

Um, that’s not speculation. That’s market reaction.

People use speculation in comics a lot now and don’t seem to know what it means. It’s not speculation once there evidence, like the other dealers sending emails before the show selling them for $200.

the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Interesting. Having been involved in comics retail since 1978, opening my first store in 1990, and growing to six stores at present, I thought I knew everything about speculation as it relates to comic collecting. 

Thank you for educating me.

Hopefully you can throw a little knowledge CGC's way too.

[Nic8612]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:20 AM, gradejunky said:

I have just been trolling this thread for the past couple of days, and am flabbergasted.  Not much more I could add that others haven't already said but the prices of raws still on ebay for auction have gone nuclear...WTF!

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=ultimate+fallout+4+c2e2&_sacat=63&LH_TitleDesc=0&LH_PrefLoc=2&rt=nc

 

There are BIN's sitting at $750 while 3 auctions are soaring upwards of $25K.

The out of control auction prices is likely a coordinated effort to way overbid the price on the books and keep people from buying them while sticking it to the seller.

 

Not like I would ever do something like that.......

[Nic8612]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:25 AM, KirbyTown said:

Figured these were total shill accounts before I checked; could they be risking theirs for the lulz? The ultimate result would be an actual purchase 🙏

 

I also like the retractions and how the original bidder was a (4) 😃

Thanks for sharing this!!

There's no "risk" for bidding on ebay and not paying, unfortunately.  They will just get an "unpaid item" strike against their account with zero recourse. And you can have as many ebay accounts as you want as long as you have spare email addresses.  

 

Though I personally have no problem with trolls over bidding these auctions 

[KirbyTown]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:26 AM, MrBedrock said:

Interesting. Having been involved in comics retail since 1978, opening my first store in 1990, and growing to six stores at present, I thought I knew everything about speculation as it relates to comic collecting. 

Thank you for educating me.

Hopefully you can throw a little knowledge CGC's way too.

You are too much of the best kind 🥳

MORE!

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:15 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I'm not a lawyer, but this stuff fascinates me, so I've read a bit about the topic, because I want to have a better understanding of it. My understanding is that the bit in bold is the issue. Marvel licensed the right to sell their product in a specific way. Since the product was altered by Black Flag in a way, unlike in the obvious custom way that a sketch alters it, and the perception is that this is a legitimate variant, essentially Black Flag may have violated Marvel's trademark to market products with their IP (even if the alterations themselves don't utilize their IP). A lot of law depends on what a reasonable person would assume. I think lawyers would have a much easier time arguing that a reasonable person might assume that the acetate versions are a legitimate Marvel product, than they would arguing that a reasonable person would think a sketch cover with a custom sketch added after production of Venom going down on the Black Cat was an approved Marvel product. Marvel might be opposed to the latter example more fiercely, but legally they probably couldn't do anything about it.

Thanks for that response.  I understand their is uncertainty in how this is seen by Marvel and could make a case for either side.  Curious what/if they'll do anything about it. 

I just felt that the seller calling it a "revision" instead of a "variant" didn't do enough to explain what this actually is to the dozens of people who may have lined up for it when they saw a UF4 exclusive.  

[MrBedrock]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:32 AM, Skwerl said:

I would agree except the comic (pre-acetate) was a licensed Black Flag exclusive. 

My bad.

Edited August 11, 2022 by MrBedrock

[Prince Namor]

On 8/11/2022 at 7:12 AM, ygogolak said:

the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

LOL. The irony is strong with this one.

[Mike's Rack]

On 8/11/2022 at 7:33 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Thanks for that response.  I understand their is uncertainty in how this is seen by Marvel and could make a case for either side.  Curious what/if they'll do anything about it. 

I just felt that the seller calling it a "revision" instead of a "variant" didn't do enough to explain what this actually is to the dozens of people who may have lined up for it when they saw a UF4 exclusive.  

That’s fair, your feelings are never wrong.  Your legal conclusions are wrong, but not your feelings.  If you want me to convince you that your legal conclusions are wrong it will require a retainer upfront and then an hourly rate.  As long as the payments clear we can discuss as long as it takes.

[Prince Namor]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:38 AM, Mike's Rack said:

That’s fair, your feelings are never wrong.  Your legal conclusions are wrong, but not your feelings.  If you want me to convince you that your legal conclusions are wrong it will require a retainer upfront and then an hourly rate.  As long as the payments clear we can discuss as long as it takes.

Don't you know? Those who grew up their whole lives with the internet, have streamed their fair share of Law and Order episodes, they KNOW how the law works!

[Prince Namor]

What if this is just an experiment to see how dumb modern comic book collectors are?

Oh wait...

[valiantman]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:41 AM, Prince Namor said:

Don't you know? Those who grew up their whole lives with the internet, have streamed their fair share of Law and Order episodes, they KNOW how the law works!

No one under 60 has ever watched Law and Order, and no one over 60 knows how to stream.

[Galen130]

And this is where I take my leave...

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:42 AM, Prince Namor said:

What if this is just an experiment to see how dumb modern comic book collectors are?

Oh wait...

These violent delights have violent ends. 

[jaybuck43]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:37 AM, MrBedrock said:

This is what happens when lawyers don't read all the facts.

The comics, pre acetate, were simply unsold overstock from years ago ( two, three, the exact age doesn't matter = old).

Overstock from which printing?  Hasn't this book been printed multiple times?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:43 AM, valiantman said:

No one under 60 has ever watched Law and Order...

Edited August 11, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus
Wrong emoji.

[MrBedrock]

On 8/11/2022 at 7:36 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Then by all means, spend all your time trying to change my mind.  👌

The only part of this argument that concerns most here on the CGC chat boards is CGC's involvement.

If the covers were individually drawn then CGC would grade them as Signature Series and a large part of the controversy as it applies specifically to CGC would have been averted. 

As it stands, if CGC had graded them as Qualified they could have dodged this whole mess.

So you can change your mind, or not, but can you please take you legal arguments over to the Marvel v. Black Flag thread.

Edited August 11, 2022 by MrBedrock