DC Universe live movies, TV, animation, gaming roadmap 4 4

[Cat]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:38 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

He could be a great villain. The treatment of Crossbones was part of why Civil War is worse than the BvS Theatrical for me.

Really? I love Civil War. Can't stand BBS theatrical. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:13 AM, Cat said:

Really? I love Civil War. Can't stand BBS theatrical. 

I was disappointed by BvS in-theaters. I was surprised the next week (or whatever) when Civil War disappointed me even more. The "I'm not the only Winter Soldier" combined with no stakes really hurts the narrative. It's lucky that it portrays Cap and Stark so well, also introducing Spider-Man and Black Panther. Civil Disagreement loses most of its luster during the airport fight for me.

[Cman429]

What always cracked me up about Civil War and BvS being released like a month apart was their stories were basically the same. In both movies, the villain’s entire plan was to turn the good guys against each other and have them beat each other up. Civil War just executed it way way better.

[D2]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:38 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

He could be a great villain. The treatment of Crossbones was part of why Civil War is worse than the BvS Theatrical for me.

I think they both missed the mark.

I, infrequently, listen to Hans Zimmer's This Is Clark Kent song, and it's honestly magical. It plays such a tender story and hits me right in the heart. That song to me embodies exactly who Superman is. That was not the same character who is represented in that song, for either BvS or JL.

Civil War was a Captain America sequel. The Winter Soldier was one of my favourite MCU films. It's a spy flick with cool espionage. So my whole attitude wasn't even in it. Civil War was so far removed from what The Winter Soldier was for me that I'd never like it.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:44 AM, D2 said:

That was not the same character who is represented in that song, for either BvS or JL.

Is it worth proving this wrong again?

Not to me. They're years-old movies with enough evidence in their runtimes, and then there's also YouTube.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I think, "Why You're Wrong About BvS" summed it up better than I would ever attempt to, but I'm not sure which of the videos covers Superman the most.

[Cat]

On 4/5/2023 at 11:44 PM, D2 said:

I think they both missed the mark.

I, infrequently, listen to Hans Zimmer's This Is Clark Kent song, and it's honestly magical. It plays such a tender story and hits me right in the heart. That song to me embodies exactly who Superman is. That was not the same character who is represented in that song, for either BvS or JL.

Civil War was a Captain America sequel. The Winter Soldier was one of my favourite MCU films. It's a spy flick with cool espionage. So my whole attitude wasn't even in it. Civil War was so far removed from what The Winter Soldier was for me that I'd never like it.

Winter Soldier is my favourite MCU film fullstop. Such a good film, regardless of genre. Civil War is completely different, but I do enjoy it, and yeah, there are a LOT of parallels between it and BVS. I just think CW executed them a lot better, and was an enjoyable ride with stakes that had meaning. I mean, who honestly thought Superman was dead? 

[D2]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:48 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Is it worth proving this wrong again?

Not to me. They're years-old movies with enough evidence in their runtimes, and then there's also YouTube.

I've seen it. It's not very convincing.

It's okay to like the movie. Lord knows I love movies that others dislike too... but as I am sure you know, when you have an opinion on a movie, rarely does it change for some reason.

[Bosco685]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:38 AM, Cman429 said:

What always cracked me up about Civil War and BvS being released like a month apart was their stories were basically the same. In both movies, the villain’s entire plan was to turn the good guys against each other and have them beat each other up. Civil War just executed it way way better.

Everyone has different likes and opinions. And that is okay.

But with Civil War what stood out the most was the introduction of T'Challa and Spider-Man, and the continued Winter Soldier story. But to say the conflict between the heroes was executed way way better, all we have to focus on is the airport 'war' and I realize why I haven't watched this movie in a long time. Yet with BVS Ultimate Edition the depth of the conflict and Lex Luthor being the architect behind the scenes was so much more intense for me.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:08 AM, D2 said:

I've seen it. It's not very convincing.

It's okay to like the movie. Lord knows I love movies that others dislike too... but as I am sure you know, when you have an opinion on a movie, rarely does it change for some reason.

Okay, are we talking about the movie or Cavill's Superman? One saying, "I don't like BvS (or Cavill's Superman)" is different from saying, "not Superman" (which is the only way I can infer your prior comment).

In the case of likes and dislikes, I respect everyone's opinion. When it comes to the claims of 'mischaracterizations', well, there's evidence to rebuke that. Then it usually boils down to, "I don't like how they didn't use my idealization of this character", which circles back to a difference of opinion rather than character or story logic.

[Bosco685]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:14 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Okay, are we talking about the movie or Cavill's Superman? One saying, "I don't like BvS (or Cavill's Superman)" is different from saying, "not Superman" (which is the only way I can infer your prior comment).

In the case of likes and dislikes, I respect everyone's opinion. When it comes to the claims of 'mischaracterizations', well, there's evidence to rebuke that. Then it usually boils down to, "I don't like how they didn't use my idealization of this character", which circles back to a difference of opinion rather than character or story logic.

What timing on social media.

Part of what Kal-El was having to deal with is the strong possibility if he became easier to access and engage with there would be a portion of mankind that would be quick to bend the knee and worship him as a god. Not as a fellow being living on this planet.

[D2]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:14 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Okay, are we talking about the movie or Cavill's Superman? One saying, "I don't like BvS (or Cavill's Superman)" is different from saying, "not Superman" (which is the only way I can infer your prior comment).

In the case of likes and dislikes, I respect everyone's opinion. When it comes to the claims of 'mischaracterizations', well, there's evidence to rebuke that. Then it usually boils down to, "I don't like how they didn't use my idealization of this character", which circles back to a difference of opinion rather than character or story logic.

I don't mind Cavill's Superman.

So my take on it was, Cavill was an interesting choice. I really liked Man of Steel. The ending droned on and on a bit for my liking, but overall, I liked the tone and vibe, the characterization, all of it. I have very little picking on the original movie. I liked Zack Snyder's original vision.

I think the rest just came off the rails for me. I don't know what the issues were... to your point, the movies are so old now, and to dissect it all over again... I just didn't like any of it, for many reasons.

So, I guess the whole point stays true. I thoroughly enjoyed MOS, and the original vision, direction, feel... and I don't think it stayed on course at all, and I didn't like where it led.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:30 AM, Bosco685 said:

What timing on social media.

Part of what Kal-El was having to deal with is the strong possibility if he became easier to access and engage with there would be a portion of mankind that would be quick to bend the knee and worship him as a god. Not as a fellow being living on this planet.

Nice. Also, Jon was simply being a 'good old-fashioned' husband and father, sacrificing himself so that his family would be safe instead.

I've said it before: I think that the heart attack sends a better message, but the scene still makes sense within Man of Steel's logic.

[Cman429]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:10 AM, Bosco685 said:

But to say the conflict between the heroes was executed way way better, all we have to focus on is the airport 'war' and I realize why I haven't watched this movie in a long time. Yet with BVS Ultimate Edition the depth of the conflict and Lex Luthor being the architect behind the scenes was so much more intense for me.

I don’t like belaboring these discussions bc as you say, everyone has their own opinion and it is what it is. But just as my final rebuttal, you seem obsessed with the airport scene. It’s a great scene but reducing the movie to that one scene is as reductive as reducing BvS to “Martha! Why did you say Martha!” 
If you found Lex’s plan more compelling and his manipulations more intense, that’s fine. I find Granny’s “peach tea” more suited to an Austin Powers movie but we all see things our own way.
At the end of the day, Cap and Iron Man had literally 5 movies worth of character development and backstory to build on which made their manipulation ans eventual break up epic storytelling for me. Batman just showing up out of nowhere after zero mention in MOS and Clark and him being at immediate odds when they never even bothered to, you know, meet before, just made the entire story seem rushed and poorly executed. But if it worked for you, I’m jealous bc it saddens me the first ever Batman/Superman crossover is an silly illogical mess to ME.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:32 AM, D2 said:

I don't mind Cavill's Superman.

So my take on it was, Cavill was an interesting choice. I really liked Man of Steel. The ending droned on and on a bit for my liking, but overall, I liked the tone and vibe, the characterization, all of it. I have very little picking on the original movie. I liked Zack Snyder's original vision.

I think the rest just came off the rails for me. I don't know what the issues were... to your point, the movies are so old now, and to dissect it all over again... I just didn't like any of it, for many reasons.

So, I guess the whole point stays true. I thoroughly enjoyed MOS, and the original vision, direction, feel... and I don't think it stayed on course at all, and I didn't like where it led.

We really deserved that MoS sequel with Brainiac. In an alternative timeline, Nolan stays on as an active Producer and handles all disputes between creatives and the studio to make this happen.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:38 AM, Cman429 said:

At the end of the day, Cap and Iron Man had literally 5 movies worth of character development and backstory to build on which made their manipulation ans eventual break up epic storytelling for me. Batman just showing up out of nowhere after zero mention in MOS and Clark and him being at immediate odds when they never even bothered to, you know, meet before, just made the entire story seem rushed and poorly executed. But if it worked for you, I’m jealous bc it saddens me the first ever Batman/Superman crossover is an silly illogical mess to ME.

You make some good points, but why would Batman confront Superman prior to his plan being ready...? We're talking about the guy who 'always wins because of prep time'.

[Bosco685]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:38 AM, Cman429 said:

I don’t like belaboring these discussions bc as you say, everyone has their own opinion and it is what it is. But just as my final rebuttal, you seem obsessed with the airport scene. It’s a great scene but reducing the movie to that one scene is as reductive as reducing BvS to “Martha! Why did you say Martha!” 
If you found Lex’s plan more compelling and his manipulations more intense, that’s fine. I find Granny’s “peach tea” more suited to an Austin Powers movie but we all see things our own way.
At the end of the day, Cap and Iron Man had literally 5 movies worth of character development and backstory to build on which made their manipulation ans eventual break up epic storytelling for me. Batman just showing up out of nowhere after zero mention in MOS and Clark and him being at immediate odds when they never even bothered to, you know, meet before, just made the entire story seem rushed and poorly executed. But if it worked for you, I’m jealous bc it saddens me the first ever Batman/Superman crossover is an silly illogical mess to ME.

I'm obsessed with the airport scene? I mentioned it one time. That could come across like a rebuttal talking point because that entire 15 minutes comes up frequently as less impactful. Better to focus on this discussion, and less about what commonly comes up.

As far as Batman and Superman at immediate odds, I would suggest going back and watching BVS Ultimate Edition (and even in the Theatrical Cut). Clark does not perceive Batman as a threat until he starts to look into the details of what is taking place at Gotham and why it would concern him. There is no 'immediate odds' with that buildup. And with Batman and how he views Superman, it is clear there was a buildup there that factually makes sense as we see right out the gate the destruction that occurred from the Battle of Metropolis that directly impacted Bruce Wayne and his people within his company that died. Along with driving home a clear link between MOS and BVS, and why Batman comes to the table having determined the massive deadly impact someone like Superman can have on Earth.

Ignoring the actual events of the BVS movie that were clearly laid out only saddens me because it is clear you missed these obvious details. Throwing out the , "Martha" trolling chant isn't best to have a discussion. It just conveys possible bias without logic.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Bosco685

[D2]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:43 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

We really deserved that MoS sequel with Brainiac. In an alternative timeline, Nolan stays on as an active Producer and handles all disputes between creatives and the studio to make this happen.

That would have been  epic.

That would have been the 1 - 2 punch and solidified Superman as the new hero of the modern age. There's so much they could have unpacked, and it would have raised the stakes naturally.

They should have left Zack Snyder alone, I always believed that. Look at what he did with 300, a 10/10 movie, better than then source material. I even liked Watchmen more than the original graphic novel, and that, on these boards is blasphemy. 

[D2]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:46 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You make some good points, but why would Batman confront Superman prior to his plan being ready...? We're talking about the guy who 'always wins because of prep time'.

I do love the Dark Knight Returns, obviously, you and I are obviously on the same page with this book... we don't need to go into that.

What is SO POETIC about this, is something that Frank Miller, emphasized on with his sequel, but I think, in the original rendition of DKR, we all got the same sense.

It's that, in truth, Superman could turn Batman to dust at any second, at any time, whenever he wanted. Frank Miller explains how, in a real fight, there is no contest. In DKR, you can tell, Superman is just trying to be Bruce's best friend, and would give his life to Bruce if need be. I love that.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/5/2023 at 11:08 AM, D2 said:

They should have left Zack Snyder alone, I always believed that. Look at what he did with 300, a 10/10 movie, better than then source material. I even liked Watchmen more than the original graphic novel, and that, on these boards is blasphemy. 

Sadly, I've never read the 300 books (yet). I keep forgetting to order them. It also hasn't been printed in collected form in over 20 years.

Interesting take on Watchmen. I used to like the movie more, but I've grown into a place where I value both versions about the same. The different endings - I think - highlight the strengths and weaknesses of each medium.