Newsstand Copies. 3 3

[Microchip]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:53 PM, paqart said:

Newsstand editions are different from directs at the time of manufacture. The difference affect their value. Dismiss this if you like, but the difference is meaningful in an absolute sense (the comics are not identical) and relative sense (newsstand collectors like myself don't even look at direct editions as legitimate collecting targets).

So, as far as I am concerned, direct editions are "collectible" only because other people want them. For that reason, I own some for the purpose of trading but do not consider them part of my collection.

I think the different states of newsstand books need to be spelled out for all of us.

We have different ages of comics, a similar sort of thing applies to Newsstands.

We need an expert to chime in.   For me personally, I'm only interested in CPV's 1982-1987, then modern newsstand books, 1988 through to now, with emphasis on the 2010's.   Anything before then has mixed significance, that myself, and the market don't understand clearly.

[paqart]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:42 AM, Iconic1s said:

Herein lies the problem. Unless CGC had recognized these books in the Census from day one (which they didn’t), the GRADED number of newsstands will NEVER be accurately known. All this discussion about points is based only on people’s opinions and guesses in regard to how rare a book ‘might’ be.  Meanwhile they are creating slots and we’re still attempting to rationalize a point system based on completely unreliable data.

The only thing that should have been done is to add the newsstand annotation in the Pedigree field and leave it at that… no extra slots, no discussion of points based on rarity/census data.

Honestly, I think the competitive Registry is about to be ruined to please newsstand collectors. @wytshus  What is so wrong with one slot per Comic ID/indicia?  Then, if someone chooses to display their newsstand there with the cool Pedigree note then good for them. Heck, you have two pic slots so display both if that floats your boat!  What is really happening now is two slots in competitive sets where a newsstand exists (but it sounds like either book can be added there).  What this does is give people an edge that decide to collect newsstands also. I joked earlier about creating a slot for Signature Series books (same Comic ID) but I would never actually think that’s a good idea… when I decided I wanted to display my Universal AND Sig Series copy of my books together I created a CUSTOM SET and that’s what these newsstand guys should be doing IMO.

Think about this example: you have a direct and a newsstand edition of Ultimate Fallout #4, both in the same grade. You post your newsstand in your registry set because you know it is rarer than the direct. Now your UF4 may be the only newsstand UF4 sitting in a pile of hundreds of directs, all of which are inferior to your newsstand on the basis of rarity. Does that seem right to you? That would be like equating Fantastic Four #5 with Fantastic Four number #555. One is much more difficult to obtain than the other. They are not equivalent.

[paqart]

On 8/2/2023 at 10:57 PM, Microchip said:

I think the different states of newsstand books need to be spelled out for all of us.

We have different ages of comics, a similar sort of thing applies to Newsstands.

We need an expert to chime in.   For me personally, I'm only interested in CPV's 1982-1987, then modern newsstand books, 1988 through to now, with emphasis on the 2010's.   Anything before then has mixed significance, that myself, and the market don't understand clearly.

I like UK editions up to early 1980's, then CPVs to about 1988, then nothing to 1999, newsstands only from 1999-2013 (Marvel), 2017 (DC), with an emphasis on Marvel 1999-2000 CPVs and Marvel/DC between 2002-2008. The later newsstands have always been easier to get than the slightly earlier ones, at least for me, so I like them better. I also like Golden Age Canadian and UK comics.

[Microchip]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:58 PM, paqart said:

Think about this example: you have a direct and a newsstand edition of Ultimate Fallout #4, both in the same grade. You post your newsstand in your registry set because you know it is rarer than the direct. Now your UF4 may be the only newsstand UF4 sitting in a pile of hundreds of directs, all of which are inferior to your newsstand on the basis of rarity. Does that seem right to you? That would be like equating Fantastic Four #5 with Fantastic Four number #555. One is much more difficult to obtain than the other. They are not equivalent.

The registry guys use Overstreet prices to gauge point allocations.   It comes out once a year, so you've got one shot a year to get these requests in, and thats assuming Overstreet backs you up, and of course, we're only talking 9.2 values.

[paqart]

On 8/2/2023 at 11:01 PM, Microchip said:

The registry guys use Overstreet prices to gauge point allocations.   It comes out once a year, so you've got one shot a year to get these requests in, and thats assuming Overstreet backs you up, and of course, we're only talking 9.2 values.

Remember when Overstreet said that there was no difference in value between the thirty and thirty-five cent versions of Star Wars #1? That's where they're at with newsstands.

[Microchip]

On 8/3/2023 at 1:01 PM, paqart said:

I like UK editions up to early 1980's, then CPVs to about 1988, then nothing to 1999, newsstands only from 1999-2013 (Marvel), 2017 (DC), with an emphasis on Marvel 1999-2000 CPVs and Marvel/DC between 2002-2008. The later newsstands have always been easier to get than the slightly earlier ones, at least for me, so I like them better. I also like Golden Age Canadian and UK comics.

Golden Age Canadian, thats certainly niche.

We do need to split all these categories out for discussion, all of these era's of newsstands have their own points, and degree's of rarity to them.   And of course which key books of the same era's the different newsstand variants apply to.   I love the modern stuff, silly because even the direct editions are mostly rare too, production numbers are tiny to begin with for some titles. 

[Microchip]

On 8/3/2023 at 1:02 PM, paqart said:

Remember when Overstreet said that there was no difference in value between the thirty and thirty-five cent versions of Star Wars #1? That's where they're at with newsstands.

OS looks like they're dropping the ball in the last few years.   There's been a few other complaints guys have raised around obvious omissions in the latest version.

[Iconic1s]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:53 PM, paqart said:

Newsstand editions are different from directs at the time of manufacture. The difference affect their value. Dismiss this if you like, but the difference is meaningful in an absolute sense (the comics are not identical) and relative sense (newsstand collectors like myself don't even look at direct editions as legitimate collecting targets).

So, as far as I am concerned, direct editions are "collectible" only because other people want them. For that reason, I own some for the purpose of trading but do not consider them part of my collection.

 as you can see, I left this conversation six months ago. Will only say now that none of my opinions have changed regarding this issue or newsstand accountability.  Particularly when talking about additional slots in competitive sets and points.  Glad you enjoy them though.

OUT

[wytshus]

On 8/2/2023 at 7:15 PM, Parabellum said:

This doesn’t seem to be true.  I have just recently tried to add my Terminator 12 newsstand to a direct slot and it has been rejected every single time.  The result was a newsstand slot was created and the book was added there.  I knew this newsstand business was going to be an issu

The direct slot for #12 wasn't populated.  That slot is populated now.

 

Like I said, this isn't the most optimal solution.  I would prefer to have the Newsstand designation in the Variant field, where it belongs.  Due to the nature of the database, populating the Variant field in an existing entry creates a new Comic ID.  However, the Pedigree field is not recognized in the Registry Search.  

[Microchip]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:10 AM, wytshus said:

The direct slot for #12 wasn't populated.  That slot is populated now.

 

Like I said, this isn't the most optimal solution.  I would prefer to have the Newsstand designation in the Variant field, where it belongs.  Due to the nature of the database, populating the Variant field in an existing entry creates a new Comic ID.  However, the Pedigree field is not recognized in the Registry Search.  

Thats not ideal at all.  You have to choose over a pedigree, or a newsstand notation.

For registry sets, the slot on the set can be removed?

A separate Newsstand inclusive, or exclusively neewsstand set would be more attractive than having the registry randomly adding newsstand slots for sets. 

 

[Parabellum]

On 8/4/2023 at 12:10 AM, wytshus said:

The direct slot for #12 wasn't populated.  That slot is populated now.

 

Like I said, this isn't the most optimal solution.  I would prefer to have the Newsstand designation in the Variant field, where it belongs.  Due to the nature of the database, populating the Variant field in an existing entry creates a new Comic ID.  However, the Pedigree field is not recognized in the Registry Search.  

Thank you

[justafan]

What a mess.  Here's my thoughts.

Registry sets should be split into newer categories to allow for inclusion/exclusion of Newsstand editions after the introduction of Direct Editions.

For example you can have the following 5 competitive sets within the same title and issue run:

1. Best comic set (distribution neutral) where newsstands = direct edition for points
2. Best Direct Edition set (exclusive of Newsstands after the introduction of Direct Editions for that run)
3. Best Newsstand Edition set (exclusive of Direct Editions after the introduction of Direct Editions for that run)
4. Best Overall set where weighted values of Newsstands due to scarcity and value factor into scoring just the same as pedigree and variants where you can only add one or the other.
5. Best Completist set where ALL variations of issues need to be included to achieve set completeness and can be added and factor into the scoring.

Not sure what needs to be done programmatically on the back end database but it will likely require a split off of some tables and joining of others with hybrid fields. 

The biggest issue will be the designation of Newsstand within the database for comic IDs where Newsstand is not yet recorded and where it is recorded in the Pedigree or Variant Field.

For set examples 1-3, nothing needs to be done other than ensuring the comic ID is recognized as being a newsstand edition or not.  Or ensuring photos are attached to the sets to verify the newsstand barcode on the issue.

For set examples 4 and 5, perhaps only the resubbed newsstand editions with its designation will be able to qualify.