Superhero fatigue - is it real or does it come down to good storytelling? 2 2

[theCapraAegagrus]

The MCU is nearly single-handed responsible for superhero fatigue. Absolute trash like L&T and She-Hulk weren't produced by anyone else. Sony and DC releasing Morbius and Black Adam didn't move the needle.

[Cat]

That's because the weekend they rereleased Morbius everyone was working, and they ignored the petition to rererelease it. It's purely their own fault. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:47 AM, Sauce Dog said:

It is very much real and felt by me and many I speak with. The vast majority of comic book films simply feel like they are vehicles for showcasing the superheroes & expanding the universe/brand; not to tell unique stories that the genre can express better than others. There isn't really a 'range' to the CBM films yet, as all are basically the same action/comedy vibe across the board with little to no other genre branches and variety (no explicit horror movies, no stylistic art house experiments in story telling, no pure romantic films, no period dramas, no coming-of-age films etc).

If you look at Marvel Comics super-hero stories from the Silver Age to the modern age, they are all pretty much character driven stories, with no real deviation into horror comics, experimentation/underground comics, or romance comics. Spider-Man had elements of romance with MJ and Gwen Stacy. Werewolf By Night, Ghost Rider, and Man-Thing were kind of horror comics, but not really. The Marvel Comics universe has really been one big story from Fantastic Four #1 in 1963 to any Marvel Comic that came out this month. The Marvel Cinematic Universe kind of reflects this. At the same time, we have absolutely seen Marvel Studios use different storytelling genres in some of its films and Disney+ shows. The Captain America and Falcon films and Disney+ show have been political thrillers. Ms. Marvel was definitely a teen coming of age story (and I'd argue probably a better coming of age story than any of the three Spider-Man franchises). Werewolf By Night was a retro-style horror story. She-Hulk was a half-hour Ally McBeal-style comedy series. Eternals was a combination of period drama and art-house movie making from Chloe Zhao. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings was a hybrid Wuxia movie (historical Chinese martial arts fantasy). And this doesn't even include the different types of stories told in their straight-up super-hero tales. Ant-Man movies are basically heist stories. Captain Marvel is a buddy road trip movie. GOTG films are dysfunctional family stories. And I'd say Wandavision was very experimental storytelling. That's a lot of variety.

If you look at DC comics, some of their best comics were genius writers like Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Neil Gaiman, or Grant Morrison coming in and telling unique twists on traditional super-hero stories, i.e. Watchmen, Swamp Thing, Dark Knight Returns, All-Star Superman, Animal Man, or Sandman. In turn, a lot of the best DC movies and TV shows reflect this, like HBO's Watchmen series, Tim Burton's Batman, Christopher Nolan's Batman, the more recent The Batman, and Joker. These movies or TV series were dark, edgy, and pushed boundaries, not unlike their comic book counterparts. Again, that's some pretty good variety.

Basically, I disagree with this first half of your post that I quoted.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/28/2023 at 7:45 PM, WolverineX said:

On 1/27/2023 at 1:27 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Storytelling - duh.

Shang-Chi, Eternals, Morbius and Black Adam didn't bomb because of "superhero fatigue."

They bombed because they sucked.

More specifically, they didn't offer audiences anything they hadn't seen (and done far better) before.

Shang Chi didn't even bomb... it was one of the biggest movies in 2021.

In fact, Shang-Chi was and is the biggest domestic box office movie of 2021 (outside of the event film Spider-Man No Way Home which debuted at the tail end of 2021). Shang-Chi also blew away box office expectations (in a pandemic and an environment of gloom and doom that movie theaters were dead). The opening weekend box office prediction for Shang-Chi was low 50 million. Its final weekend box office was 71 million and its final Labor Day Weekend total was 85 million, shattering the normally slow Labor Day weekend record. SC's second weekend box office was also strong at 36 million, further shutting down the doubts about the movie. Along with overwhelming positive critics reviews and good word of mouth, Shang-Chi was an unexpected and qualified hit.

Not only that, Shang-Chi had an intangible effect on movie theaters by showing the industry that people will show up for a good movie at the movie theaters if that's the only way to watch it. After Shang-Chi's surprise opening weekend, a domino effect occured as movie studios adjusted their release and streaming schedules (i.e. Venom 2) due to this unexpected goodwill towards theater-only movies.

And that's how Shang-Chi saved the movie theater industry.

https://studybreaks.com/tvfilm/shang-chi-and-the-legend-of-the-ten-rings/

https://www.businessinsider.com/shang-chi-proved-movie-theater-owners-right-after-black-widow-2021-9

Edited January 31, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[Larryw7]

[Gatsby77]

On 1/31/2023 at 11:00 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

In fact, Shang-Chi was and is the biggest domestic box office movie of 2021. Shang-Chi also blew away box office expectations (in a pandemic and an environment of gloom and doom that movie theaters were dead). The opening weekend box office prediction for Shang-Chi was low 50 million. Its final weekend box office was 71 million. Its second weekend box office was also strong, further shutting down the doubts about the movie. Along with overwhelming positive critics reviews and good word of mouth, Shang-Chi was an unexpected and qualified hit.

Not only that, Shang-Chi had an intangible effect on movie theaters by showing the industry that people will show up for a good movie at the movie theaters if that's the only way to watch it. After Shang-Chi's surprise opening weekend, a domino effect occured as movie studios adjusted their release and streaming schedules (i.e. Venom 2 and James Bond) due to this unexpected goodwill towards theater-only movies.

And that's how Shang-Chi saved the movie theater industry.

https://studybreaks.com/tvfilm/shang-chi-and-the-legend-of-the-ten-rings/

https://www.businessinsider.com/shang-chi-proved-movie-theater-owners-right-after-black-widow-2021-9

Is this parody?

Shang-Chi was the 5th-lowest grossing MCU theatrical release. To put that in perspective, even the first Thor movie had a higher worldwide gross, and it came out fully 10 years earlier.

And - no it was and is not the biggest domestic box office release of 2021. 

That would be Spider-Man: No Way Home, which had a domestic box office greater than 2.5x that of Shang-Chi ($557.5 milion vs. Shang-Chi's $224.5 million).

And yes - that counts *just* 2021 -- Spider-Man: No Way Home made that $550+ million in just its first two weeks of release (i.e., December 2021).

That number doesn't even count the film's 2022 take, which was ultimately more than $800 million domestically.

Shang-Chi led to an adjustment in No Time to Die's release schedule? 100% false.

No Time to Die's Oct. 8 release date was announced on Jan. 21 - months before Shang-Chi's release.

See here: https://www.looper.com/317598/no-time-to-die-gets-yet-another-new-release-date/

And, as discussed before, Fast 9 was far more responsible for "saving movie theaters" than was Shang-Chi. Why? While it didn't do as well domestically as Shang-Chi, it showed summer movie staying power - and ultimately did >$725 million worldwide. (Or did you forget that the pandemic was global - and worse in places like China and Italy than it was here in the U.S.?)

Oh - and you know what - Fast 9 getting's a sequel. Shang-Chi? No so much.

[Kripsys99]

On 1/30/2023 at 6:01 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

At least you're calling out both Marvel and DC for your fatigue. A lot of comments read like a MCU-Anonymous therapy pool.

Personally, I feel "it" would feel less crowded if DC would just stop trying to create their own MCU again and again and again.

DC has been pretty much a non factor throughout the superhero movie boom. In my view, the decrease in popularity of/enthusiasm for Marvel movies has nothing to do with DC. DC was pumping out more (and crappier) stuff during the height of Marvel than they are now, and it did nothing to dampen the public's appetite for superhero movies (just as DC did very little to feed that appetite to begin with).

I'm a DC fanboy, but they have never gotten their mess together, so I've relied on Marvel for my superhero movie fix. I root for Disney/Marvel. I have no expectations of DC precisely because they've done so little good.

However, as bad as DC has been, Marvel has put out more bad content in the last two years than the DCEU has put out in its entire existence. And for the first time ever, I'm more optimistic about the future of DC than I am about Marvel, though that is based on the admittedly small sample size of what I view as recent high quality DC properties (Suicide Squad, and especially Peacemaker), and the recent large sample size of Marvel drek.

That said, I hope I'm wrong, and that both universes get it together, and start pumping out content more akin to what we saw in Marvel Phases 1-3 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Kripsys99

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:30 PM, Larryw7 said:

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:32 PM, Gatsby77 said:

No Time to Die's Oct. 8 release date was announced on Jan. 21 - months before Shang-Chi's release.

[Shang-Chi] was and is not the biggest domestic box office release of 2021. 

That would be Spider-Man: No Way Home, which had a domestic box office greater than 2.5x that of Shang-Chi ($557.5 milion vs. Shang-Chi's $224.5 million).

And yes - that counts *just* 2021 -- Spider-Man: No Way Home made that $550+ million in just its first two weeks of release (i.e., December 2021).

That is true. I will un-amend my statement that Shang-Chi caused MGM to push up James Bond's release date and amend the 2021 box office statement. Because I'm into facts.

Edited January 31, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:28 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

It is very funny when you focus on a set box office detail to tell a story. It truly is.

[kimik]

I was shocked Shang-Chi did so well at the box office. This is how I felt watching it at the theatre. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by kimik

[paperheart]

fatigue? but the DCU announcement barely elicited a yawn

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:32 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Fast 9 getting's a sequel. Shang-Chi? No so much.

A Shang-Chi sequel isn't coming out in May 2023 nor has it been given a release date from Marvel Studios, but it has been greenlighted. That was reported way back in December 2021. Simu Liu even chatted about it in an interview last year:

“I think I know as much as anyone else, right? There’s going to be a sequel, I think that part was obvious but it was also made official. As far as when I think that’s just a question of timing and how well my back holds up through the years. I’ll make 40 of them if we can.”

According to TheCosmicCircus.com, the title "Shang-Chi and The Wreckage of Time" has been trademarked by Marvel, meaning this is the possible title of the sequel. If so, the word "Time" in the title says it probably ties in with the greater Kang storyline. And SC director Daniel Destin Cretton is directing Kang Dynasty, so...

Edited February 1, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/31/2023 at 3:48 PM, Bosco685 said:

It is very funny when you focus on a set box office detail to tell a story. It truly is.

If my simple math is correct, Shang-Chi has the highest 2021 domestic box office take prior to Spiderman No Way Home. No movie even comes close except for Venom 2.

[Bosco685]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:09 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

If my simple math is correct, Shang-Chi has the highest 2021 domestic box office take prior to Spiderman No Way Home. No movie even comes close except for Venom 2.

"Let me pick a metric and make that the hill I die on why what I'm fanatical over is a success!"

Now do how Shang-Chi saved the entire theatrical market. 

[Gatsby77]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:09 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

If my simple math is correct, Shang-Chi has the highest 2021 domestic box office take prior to Spiderman No Way Home. No movie even comes close except for Venom 2.

1) What Bosco said.

2) Yes - Shang-Chi was the highest grossing film released in September 2021, on Fridays that fall on the 3rd day of the month, too.

3) For worldwide box office, it's not even top 6 for the year (note that Bosco's chart above omits No Way Home which (again!) made $550 million domestically in just its first two weeks of release).

[Bosco685]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:21 PM, Gatsby77 said:

1) What Bosco said.

2) Yes - Shang-Chi was the highest grossing film released in September 2021, on Fridays that fall on the 3rd day of the month, too.

3) For worldwide box office, it's not even top 6 for the year (note that Bosco's chart above omits No Way Home which (again!) made $550 million domestically in just its first two weeks of release).

I stopped tracking the 2021 Top 10, but it's fair to note No Way Home blew everything else away for the year. Heck, I snuck out of work early for my vacation just to go see this movie, and was overjoyed that I did.

But Shang-Chi saved the theatrical market because the domestic box office was so high. The market that the MCU fanatics throw their excess cash at to prove their loyalty, and bring their ticket binders to shows so as to convey their loyalty. 

 

And even the cast has to ask a logical question.

.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Bosco685

[TupennyConan]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:06 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Simu Liu

The Master of Kung Fu star. 

 

[TupennyConan]

The only real X-Men story since the FOX acquisition has been X-Men. 

Let's see if Wolverine high kicks in sequins for Deadpool. He sure has cried enough in all the other movies. 

[Bosco685]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:00 PM, paperheart said:

fatigue? but the DCU announcement barely elicited a yawn

No directors announced. No casting announced. No real timeline yet, other than clarity anything not in the DCU is considered "DC Elseworlds'.

I don't know. what was your reaction expectations with just character details?