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Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1963) Butting Heads, Unexpected Success and Not Expected Failures!
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Started by Prince Namor,

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Dr. Haydn

Dr. Haydn

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On 4/9/2023 at 10:06 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Heck was better when inked by others, agreed. He was certainly competent when not rushed, and did good layouts, but he didn't have the creativity to do top superhero work.... especially when being directly compared to Kirby at all times.

Yeah--and I believe Heck freely admitted that superheroes weren't his cup of tea.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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On 4/10/2023 at 12:43 AM, Zonker said:

I also wonder if it was Jack's idea or Stan's to have this guy be Richards.  Does the OO with margin notes exist?

No way to know for sure, but...

Here you can see some of the notes are cut off on this page, but even more important you can see where Jack was drawing in word balloons to instruct Sam Rosen on where the dialogue should go.

Kirby was very much writing these, and whereas Stan no doubt continued to forbid him from writing the actual dialogue, the story, the pace, how they talked to each other, the STORY... it's all Kirby.

A grown up Boy Commandos.

Anyone who read Boy Commandos can clearly see where Sgt. Fury came from. 

SGTFury03a.jpg

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Dr. Haydn

Dr. Haydn

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On 4/9/2023 at 7:12 PM, Prince Namor said:

No way to know for sure, but...

Here you can see some of the notes are cut off on this page, but even more important you can see where Jack was drawing in word balloons to instruct Sam Rosen on where the dialogue should go.

Kirby was very much writing these, and whereas Stan no doubt continued to forbid him from writing the actual dialogue, the story, the pace, how they talked to each other, the STORY... it's all Kirby.

A grown up Boy Commandos.

Anyone who read Boy Commandos can clearly see where Sgt. Fury came from. 

SGTFury03a.jpg

What's interesting to me--I see three different handwriting styles in the margins. "Firing stopped" (bottom left) and Jack--leg (left margin) looks like Stan Lee's handwriting. But "bring up field piece" (top left) and "let's get off this (?)" (left margin) appear to be in a different hand. Then, the teal-colored corrections (top and bottom margins), are in a third hand. How many pairs of eyes did Jack's pages pass through before they were published?

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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On 4/10/2023 at 1:17 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

What's interesting to me--I see three different handwriting styles in the margins. "Firing stopped" (bottom left) and Jack--leg (left margin) looks like Stan Lee's handwriting. But "bring up field piece" (top left) and "let's get off this (?)" (left margin) appear to be in a different hand. Then, the teal-colored corrections (top and bottom margins), are in a third hand. How many pairs of eyes did Jack's pages pass through before they were published?

A lot of those guys would have had wartime experience, so might have been throwing in their 2 cents along the way... perhaps the inker, letterer, colourist, proofreader (if there was one) or production guy.

Edited by Steven Valdez
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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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On 4/10/2023 at 10:17 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

What's interesting to me--I see three different handwriting styles in the margins. "Firing stopped" (bottom left) and Jack--leg (left margin) looks like Stan Lee's handwriting. But "bring up field piece" (top left) and "let's get off this (?)" (left margin) appear to be in a different hand. Then, the teal-colored corrections (top and bottom margins), are in a third hand. How many pairs of eyes did Jack's pages pass through before they were published?

Jack's hand written notes in the margin wouldn't begin until later. During this time he is explaining to Stan what is going on in each panel and Stan is the one writing notes. (His scribbling is infamously bad). 
 

It's funny that the person who claims to be the writer, needs the story explained to him. 
 

The rest of it is mostly production notes or small changes to the art that Stan would ask for. 

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Prince Namor

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ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Amazing Spider-man #5 - Written by: Stan Lee (More like: Co-plotted and then Added dialogue to Ditko's story) Drawn by: Steve Ditko (More like: Co-plotted and Drawn by)  Lettering: S. Rosen (My name is SAM!)

Cover by Ditko. 

I've forgotten if Ditko specifically addressed this, but I'd assume this was Stan's idea - playing into the hands of fanboys who salivate at these type of weird pairing that make no sense - but it served him well. A forgettable issue that at the time probably seemed exciting or whatever and worked to expand the universe of these characters. 

For me, I always was a Spider-man fan, first and foremost - I LIKED his aloofness towards other heroes in Marvel's Universe (who I saw as mostly watered down, less fleshed out inferior versions of super heroes) and preferred Spidey to remain in his own world. Crossovers, and Summer Annual events and Beyonder Secret war stories and Spider-man in outer space... Ugh. 

Part ONE:

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Dr. Haydn

Dr. Haydn

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On 4/10/2023 at 5:40 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS JULY 1963

Amazing Spider-man #5 - Letters Page

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Re: Dan Fleming's letter.

I believe Ditko had a scene in an art exhibit a few issues later with a room full of paintings of feet, as an answer to Dan's criticism that he didn't know how to draw them properly.

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Dr. Haydn

Dr. Haydn

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On 4/10/2023 at 5:33 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

Re: Dan Fleming's letter.

I believe Ditko had a scene in an art exhibit a few issues later with a room full of paintings of feet, as an answer to Dan's criticism that he didn't know how to draw them properly.

ASM 22, bottom panels. Found it on another thread.

ASM 22 feet.jpg

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