A Dealer is a flipper 3 3

[toro]

I won a book one time and the seller gave a horrible description of the book.  I put it back up for sale with a nice description and it sold for more than double what I paid for it. 

I'm sure half the books that I sell on Comiclink auctions are won and flipped here and ebay.

[WolverineX]

On 3/15/2023 at 10:32 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It's just greed in the free market. Can't eliminate human nature.

 

Or so they say

[shadroch]

I've heard some dealers sell comics for a profit. 

[D2]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:50 AM, PopKulture said:

And then you vote with your wallet and elect not to buy, I assume?  

correct

[southern cross]

Are we talking about a dealer with a bricks and mortar store, Diamond, Penguin and Luna monthly accounts?

A dealer that sells books after spending 1-2k for a booth?

A collector that is "slinging floppies on the bay"? Have to use the slang!

Or scalper that buys up a con exclusive within minutes and sells for multiples of what they paid?

Seriously!

I think I read a story here where a seller was selling a book (let's pretend it was 2k) and a buyer messaged them with the story this book is my grail, been wanting it forever yadda yadda yadda I can pay $1500. The seller had meat on the bone with the book. And helping out a fellow collector and getting a warm fuzzy feeling, not exactly worth $500 but okay compensation did the deal. Only for the buyer to list the book for $2k a month later. Not good!

If the buyer had a change in life circumstances and had to sell and contacted the seller and gave them first option to buy the book back at $1500. Ok. And after refusal saying I have to sell the book back and get my money back so just giving you a heads up.

This scenario is icky, Getting the discount (say in head with a southern Belle accent) "I always rely on the kindness of strangers" Then flipping it for FMV a month later.

Means the next time a collector asks the seller about a discount for a grail book they've always wanted. The seller will think unfortunately!

[WolverineX]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:22 AM, southern cross said:

Are we talking about a dealer with a bricks and mortar store, Diamond, Penguin and Luna monthly accounts?

A dealer that sells books after spending 1-2k for a booth?

A collector that is "slinging floppies on the bay"? Have to use the slang!

Or scalper that buys up a con exclusive within minutes and sells for multiples of what they paid?

Seriously!

I think I read a story here where a seller was selling a book (let's pretend it was 2k) and a buyer messaged them with the story this book is my grail, been wanting it forever yadda yadda yadda I can pay $1500. The seller had meat on the bone with the book. And helping out a fellow collector and getting a warm fuzzy feeling, not exactly worth $500 but okay compensation did the deal. Only for the buyer to list the book for $2k a month later. Not good!

If the buyer had a change in life circumstances and had to sell and contacted the seller and gave them first option to buy the book back at $1500. Ok. And after refusal saying I have to sell the book back and get my money back so just giving you a heads up.

This scenario is icky, Getting the discount (say in head with a southern Belle accent) "I always rely on the kindness of strangers" Then flipping it for FMV a month later.

Means the next time a collector asks the seller about a discount for a grail book they've always wanted. The seller will think unfortunately!

takes one rotten apple to spoil the batch

[Number 6]

I think the only problem I might have with the scenario the OP outlined is if the original listing makes it clear that the dealer/flipper a) hasn’t put any effort into evaluating the comic’s condition himself now that he has it in hand or b) that he’s omitting or misrepresenting something that is clearly evident in the original listing. 
 

Other than that, no I wouldn’t have problem. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:22 AM, southern cross said:

I think I read a story here where a seller was selling a book (let's pretend it was 2k) and a buyer messaged them with the story this book is my grail, been wanting it forever yadda yadda yadda I can pay $1500. The seller had meat on the bone with the book. And helping out a fellow collector and getting a warm fuzzy feeling, not exactly worth $500 but okay compensation did the deal. Only for the buyer to list the book for $2k a month later. Not good!

Yup, here on the boards. Truly sad that someone would lie like that. We all want the best price, buying or selling, the least we can all do is be honest. Delusions of utopia, I know.

[Westy Steve]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:39 PM, Grendel72 said:

Wouldn't bother me at all. It's part and parcel. Since you asked the qn, would it bother you if you were a potential buyer ? 

Not me. I just look at the merits of every potential purchase at face value. But I feel I might be in the minority. 

[Sigur Ros]

Would surprise me if you find someone who finds a book at a good price but is bothered by where it came from.

[Dr. Balls]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:15 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It 'bothers me' when people are simply obsessed with flipping, because it's clear to me that greed solely drives their business and not a genuine interest in perpetuating the things that make the hobby worthwhile.

Otherwise, flipping is just a thing that cannot/won't be stopped, and I accept that. Other people winning trades doesn't typically affect me.

My opinion on this comes from two previous vantage points:

• Running my comic shop in the mid-90s and discovering "bulletin boards" filled with comic shops selling books to people like me who lived in Montana for "dealer price" allowing me room to mark books up that were impossible to find for most collectors in my neck of the woods. Coupled with mail order recent hot back issues, I made hand-over-fist in my tiny little marketplace.

• Later on, I was an very avid seller here from around 2012-2014 - buying books for my collection to sell undercopies, buying some books to flip and speculating. This was before Facebook groups, Instagram selling, etc. Mostly Ebay, hilarious Craigslist finds and that was about it. Lots of stuff out there to find still.

I sometimes sell stuff when time allows - it's still fun and helps fund the hobby. But, wow - the speculation/influencer market and the difficulty of finding deals on Ebay (due to so many other people looking at the same time) make it an even-more focused endeavor for a dealer. For me, especially in my location, finding the 'deals' with my own business to run make it impossible, unless I luck into them. I mean, trips to the LCS yield no gems worth selling - they're educated on current trends and anything I want to buy is at par. No fault of their own - it just seems that nearly everyone has caught up with how to research and market selling back issues.

[the blob]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:01 PM, Westy Steve said:

Hey guys,

I have an interesting ethical question for you. I am trying to build up a business as a dealer. So I am setting up at shows, trying to build an audience on Facebook etc.

Like most of you here, I like looking through comic book ads on eBay and in the sales forum here etc.

How would you feel if someone like me was offering a desirable comic book to you at a good price. But when you looked up past sales on eBay to get a feel for what the market value of the comic book was, you noticed that the comic you’re interested in buying was purchased at a much better price. (Presumably by me).  Like really recently. 
 

If you’re still getting a “good” price on it, does it bother you that I recently bought it at a “great” price to flip it on a public site like EBay?  Is that somehow different than if I bought it from Joe Schmoe at wholesale?

Just curious. 

No. It is when you raise the price and claim the book is a NM- rather than the Fine you bought it at.

[Dr. Balls]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:22 AM, southern cross said:

 

I think I read a story here where a seller was selling a book (let's pretend it was 2k) and a buyer messaged them with the story this book is my grail, been wanting it forever yadda yadda yadda I can pay $1500. The seller had meat on the bone with the book. And helping out a fellow collector and getting a warm fuzzy feeling, not exactly worth $500 but okay compensation did the deal. Only for the buyer to list the book for $2k a month later. Not good!

 

Anything can be a grail until the next grail comes along.

“The top 9 most hilarious words in the English Language are: "I'll never sell it, please give me a discount”

[shadroch]

There is a huge difference between operating for a profit and operating out of greed.  Good dealers are selling both their products and their services. Both are valuable. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:01 PM, Westy Steve said:

Hey guys,

I have an interesting ethical question for you. I am trying to build up a business as a dealer. So I am setting up at shows, trying to build an audience on Facebook etc.

Like most of you here, I like looking through comic book ads on eBay and in the sales forum here etc.

How would you feel if someone like me was offering a desirable comic book to you at a good price. But when you looked up past sales on eBay to get a feel for what the market value of the comic book was, you noticed that the comic you’re interested in buying was purchased at a much better price. (Presumably by me).  Like really recently. 
 

If you’re still getting a “good” price on it, does it bother you that I recently bought it at a “great” price to flip it on a public site like EBay?  Is that somehow different than if I bought it from Joe Schmoe at wholesale?

Just curious. 

I'll often buy a book I see at a good price, knowing that it's worth more, even if I don't want it for my permanent collection. I don't see an issue with reselling in situations like that. What I do have a problem with is people trying to clear a store out of a newly released book in order to sell on the secondary market. Those people drive people out of the hobby.

I recently purchased a CGC slab from someone on eBay, and noticed that they had just recently purchased it from someone else at a bargain price (less than the price of grading). My only reaction is I wished I had seen it first.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:15 PM, PopKulture said:

For me, it would have no bearing on my decision on whether to buy it from you or not. All that matters is the price you're asking at that point and the price I'm willing to pay (and how far apart we are).  The only thing I'll never do is buy on the Bay from dealers who outbid me directly on other auctions (usually group lots). In that case, I will not support and underpin my direct competition. 

The latter has happened to me at least a dozen times the past few years, often on lots of books that are each in the $3 to $20 value range: things like Dells, Gold Keys, Charltons, etc. They are not high-demand books, but if a dealer can get them at the right price and stick them in their eBay store for $9.99 to $24.99, enough of them eventually sell to reinforce that business model. Often these auctions originate with non-comics sellers like a family member or friend with some knowledge and common sense listing books in similar lots of perhaps a dozen or more. It seems for a few weeks, you can win a few of these auctions before a few fairly decent-sized dealers become your competition and then, well, the fun gets sucked out of the room pretty quickly...  

When you're dealing with lots though, a person might be looking for only specific items in that lot, but they're willing to spend for the whole lot to get the books they want, figuring they can resell the rest. That's not necessarily a seller to avoid. When I'm looking to build a run, I'll often go about it this way.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:22 AM, southern cross said:

I think I read a story here where a seller was selling a book (let's pretend it was 2k) and a buyer messaged them with the story this book is my grail, been wanting it forever yadda yadda yadda I can pay $1500. The seller had meat on the bone with the book. And helping out a fellow collector and getting a warm fuzzy feeling, not exactly worth $500 but okay compensation did the deal. Only for the buyer to list the book for $2k a month later. Not good!

If the buyer had a change in life circumstances and had to sell and contacted the seller and gave them first option to buy the book back at $1500. Ok. And after refusal saying I have to sell the book back and get my money back so just giving you a heads up.

This scenario is icky, Getting the discount (say in head with a southern Belle accent) "I always rely on the kindness of strangers" Then flipping it for FMV a month later.

Means the next time a collector asks the seller about a discount for a grail book they've always wanted. The seller will think unfortunately!

The buyer, probably: "Sorry, I should have clarified that the profit on the book is my grail. Or rather just profit in general.… Money; money is my grail."

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:22 AM, southern cross said:

I think I read a story here where a seller was selling a book (let's pretend it was 2k) and a buyer messaged them with the story this book is my grail, been wanting it forever yadda yadda yadda I can pay $1500. The seller had meat on the bone with the book. And helping out a fellow collector and getting a warm fuzzy feeling, not exactly worth $500 but okay compensation did the deal. Only for the buyer to list the book for $2k a month later. Not good!

Did the buyer ask the seller to dropship it to ComicLink? 

[Happy Noodle Boy]

A perhaps relevant example from the Original Comic Book Art side of the hobby...

Many years ago I joined a message board frequented by original art collectors, many of whom were also dealers. I was there just to learn what I could, because I was considering picking up some original art by certain artists I liked. Well, a couple of the collectors on the board talked about one of their favorite methods for making money in the hobby: set up as a dealer at a convention that featured prominent artists, then, before any of the fans could get into the convention, buy up the entire stock of original art from artists who were selling their own pieces at the show. When the fans showed up these collectors then sold the original art they had just purchased an hour before at their own tables for a 300-400% markup. When one of the artists at some convention instituted a one-piece per person policy, they all complained about it on the board. When I tried to bring up the ethics of their behavior--basically, it was scalping--they laughed me off the board. I decided then that collecting original art wasn't for me, because I didn't like the people in the hobby very much.

So I guess the question is, where do you draw the line?

And my answer would be, "with the scalper jerks in the example I just mentioned. That's where I draw the line."   

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Mark Warren

[revat]

Wouldn't I assume that ANY book sold by a dealer was purchased for noticeably less then I'm paying?  Which isn't to say I wouldn't try to negotiate a lower price, just that I can't imagine anyone having  a problem with a dealer/store owner for trying to make a profit by selling their wares.  I would have a much bigger problem with someone who doesn't assume that.