Seller sold an incomplete book to me - How would you respond? 10 10

[B2D327]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:21 PM, Funnybooks said:

so if you would have purchased a raw book that a seller assured you was universal. You receive it, inspect it, but, somehow you missed color touch and the book came back restored from cgc, the seller has no obligation to you?

Only within the TOS timeframe. If I miss that window, that’s on me. As stated before, I would hope the op and seller could reach some resolution but at this point, he’s really under no obligation to the buyer anymore and it’s more a question of whether or not he wants to be a “nice guy”. 

[Lightning55]

On 5/23/2023 at 4:49 PM, Funnybooks said:

so, you know everything about every single item you've ever purchased? 

You asked "What if in a scenario, the purchaser was someone that does not know anything about comic books and counting pages or detecting restoration?"

I said that people shouldn't buy things they don't know anything about.  I didn't say you have to know EVERYTHING about it, as you have written.

Even something as simple as buying a toaster, you should have some knowledge as to what it does and won't do, will it fit your needs, is it made by a reputable manufacturer, etc.  Any time you for fork over hard-earned money, you'd better know what you are buying, or you deserve what you get.

[ramrodcar]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:07 PM, Funnybooks said:

If the seller would have properly labeled the book as incomplete, we would not be in this situation. The seller started this chain reaction by being careless ( at best ) in the listing and at worst, being fraudulent. I'm very surprised by all the responses to the contrary.

Likewise if the buyer would've spent 1min to count the pages within 30 days, this situation wouldn't exist either. Trust but verify folks. You should take the $100 consideration and cut your losses assuming it's still an option at this point.

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:59 PM, B2D327 said:

I have a question since the subject of “doing the right thing” on the seller’s part seems to come up here: Since you didn’t inspect the book before sending it off, let’s say the grading worked in your favor where the book graded higher than expected or turned out to be a double cover error, would you:

A) Flip the book and send a seller a portion of the profit?

B) Return the book and ask the seller for a refund because he should’ve charged you more?

C) Celebrate coming out ahead?

It kills me all the posts that seem to want to question my character. But I will play your game as long as you play too. 

On the subject of grading - I am far from an expert, so you are telling me if a comic comes back graded better than you thought you do will do either A & B? If so, I call BS. I would not do either as any comics I buy now are to keep and hold - not flip. C - Yes, I am happy any time a comic comes back graded higher than I thought. It is usually time for celebration. Are you telling me that you feel remorse when this happens? LOL! 

The double cover "what if" is a different story. I very well may contact the seller to see if he was aware. If the comic is valued substantially way more than paid, I think I very well may offer him some additional money or to return the book for what I paid so he can remarket appropriately. 

How do you like me now? 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:59 PM, B2D327 said:

I am in the majority consensus that the seller should work with you on a mutually satisfying resolution but if I were in his shoes, I’d be a tad aggravated that a sale I made long before the refund window was being disputed long after that business had been conducted. 

I would be completely in agreement if I had not asked the question if the comic is complete prior to the buying. How long should a seller's word be good for 1 month? 2 months? 1 year? Forever? I like to think if I made a statement that proved to be not accurate I would do whatever to try to make the buyer feel whole. But, I grew up in a small family grocery store as a young boy. I was pumping gas at the age of ten. Running the cash register at age 12. My parents taught me the customer is always right! Anytime I have sold a comic on eBay and someone was not happy I always ask what can I do to make you completely satisfied. I then I would do what they asked. Even when I thought they were not right about the comic. In those instances, I still would give them what they wanted and then block them from future purchases if I thought they were trying to scam me. 

[shadroch]

On 5/23/2023 at 3:07 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

You are telling me if I specifically ask you if a comic is complete with no cutouts and you indicate to me that it is complete with no cutouts, but then, I don't discover the fact the comic is incomplete until 60 days later, you will not honor your representation given the fact I was relying upon your word and expertise as a comic book dealer? 

I'm telling you that you, the buyer, is responsible for checking out the book. For all you know, the book was consigned and after a reasonable time, he paid the consignee.  I do make exceptions when someone told me they were sending the book to CGC, but that was after they communicated. If I sold you a book and didn't hear from you for two months, I'd consider the deal closed.   

[B2D327]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:39 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

How do you like me now? 

Well, since the question pertains to your situation where the seller is expected to be Mr. Nice guy, it shows how you feel entitled to being not only the one to come out ahead but everyone should take your side for not doing your own due diligence.

Check mate.
….and since you brought up the grader issue, did you have the book cleaned and pressed too? I think the seller could bring this up to eBay in their next discussion (whether you did or didn’t) as a defense to how many hands the book passed through before the dispute was activated 

[ttfitz]

On 5/23/2023 at 3:04 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Sorry you took it that way. I already admitted my fault in this thread by not inspecting the book when I recieved it. But does this relieve the seller of all responsibility and puts 100% of the fault on me? That's is what some posters on this forum have been saying.

Where are you seeing that? I didn't see anyone who said that it was "100% your fault". Now, getting it graded without inspecting it yourself was 100% your fault, so you shouldn't expect to get the seller to cover that. Beyond that, full refund or a mutually agreed partial refund is reasonable.

[Lightning55]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:34 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Not to here, but you're 100% responsible for this situation by not inspecting the product within the return window.

This is the droid you were looking for but couldn't see, according to Obi-Wan.

[Lightning55]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:09 PM, ttfitz said:

Where are you seeing that? I didn't see anyone who said that it was "100% your fault". Now, getting it graded without inspecting it yourself was 100% your fault, so you shouldn't expect to get the seller to cover that. Beyond that, full refund or a mutually agreed partial refund is reasonable.

See above

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:00 PM, B2D327 said:

Well, since the question pertains to your situation where the seller is expected to be Mr. Nice guy, it shows how you feel entitled to being not only the one to come out ahead but everyone should take your side for not doing your own due diligence.

Check mate.
….and since you brought up the grader issue, did you have the book cleaned and pressed too? I think the seller could bring this up to eBay in their next discussion (whether you did or didn’t) as a defense to how many hands the book passed through before the dispute was activated 

 

On 5/23/2023 at 6:00 PM, shadroch said:

I'm telling you that you, the buyer, is responsible for checking out the book. For all you know, the book was consigned and after a reasonable time, he paid the consignee.  I do make exceptions when someone told me they were sending the book to CGC, but that was after they communicated. If I sold you a book and didn't hear from you for two months, I'd consider the deal closed.   

These two make sense. If I was a seller I'd give a refund within the allotted time. I'd also count my own pages.

We never got info if feedback was left by either party to see if either considered the matter closed. As a seller, ebay pushes for feedback within the allotted time. If the seller felt obligated it's over and done with.

I'd count the pages to answer a question, but if I consider a transaction closed I feel free to use that money and after the allotted time I may not have the funds to be as is put a "nice guy".

Just because it is a "dealer" who has more of an obligation to be a "nice guy". You may not have intended it this way, but whether you out the seller or not, you felt bad enough about it and your participation to start a thread in a public area, which diminishes the seller from looking bad to defend.

He is going to block you, but you came on and asked if it was all "OK" then proceeded not to not like the answer until someone agreed with you. Presumably to make yourself feel better and show ebay and or the seller, or your own feelings. I don't mind either, cause I'm confident that if I sold to you I'd refund anyway, so I may not block you personally but that's up for individual basis. I don't sell except for funds to use, a dealer might be different but there is no reason to exploit that then publicly feel iffy about your situation then not like the answers except for a few, then lock it up as validation.

I haven't been there in the buyer seller situation,  but these threads seem easily created from time to time. I just call that mistake #2, but it's a sticky wicket that may be better to count losses and deal privately 

Edited May 23, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:00 PM, B2D327 said:

Well, since the question pertains to your situation where the seller is expected to be Mr. Nice guy, it shows how you feel entitled to being not only the one to come out ahead but everyone should take your side for not doing your own due diligence.

Did you even read my response? I don't think so. Shame you chose not to play your own game so folks can try to asses your character while making judgements on mine. 

I don't know how many times I have to say in this thread that I am partially responsible for this mess by not inspecting the comic prior to submission. Are folks unable to accept the fact I am accepting some responsibility for this mess? Unfortunately, it seems many have a one-sided seller's point of view where the seller has either little or no responsibilty. 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:00 PM, B2D327 said:

Check mate.

Feels like you're playing checkers to me. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by O Doyle Rules

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:00 PM, B2D327 said:

did you have the book cleaned and pressed too?

No

[B2D327]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:16 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Feels like your playing checkers to me. 

Doesn’t surprise me since you don’t think eBay’s TOS don’t apply to you either

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:16 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Feels like your playing checkers to me. 

Your acting like ebay wasn't a 3rd party? If this was a face to face deal, then the dealer is a true nice guy. Your expected to follow ebay rules regardless of what the seller said, the fact it wasn't in the allotted time, and yet you got ebay to side with you does not look like your very "nice" regardless of the outcome of this particular transaction. Give us the listing link, and see if it says no refunds? So much more than what you've stated so far to consider...

[O Doyle Rules]

I'm done. No more discussion on my part after this post or replies to any posters as I do not want this thread going any more sideways. If anything changes, that is the seller decides to comminicate with me and we come to a resolution or if eBay takes any action I will privde an update as promised. 

I have admitted I made a mistake when I did not inspect the comic prior to submitting to CGC. And yes, I agree the length of time involved should impact any refund that the seller is willing to give. However, in my opinion this does not absolve the seller of any responsibility as some feel here since it is past 60 days. I guess I just grew up in a different time era where your word is your bond. Be it 30 days, 60 days, 1 year....

Edited May 23, 2023 by O Doyle Rules

[ADAMANTIUM]

@Funnybooks so cgc proved it was incomplete as a 3rd party? Ebay is a 3rd party as well and has rules and expectations that come with that for the seller. We have no link to the listing, no answer on if feedback was left by either party (though ebay pushes for the seller to do so) counting the transaction at an end

I agree with you to refund, but there is no obligation, but now a thread that outs the seller without meaning too. Outs also anyone who feels bad for the seller, and makes anyone who expects ebay (who evidently sided with the buyer) to honor their guidelines, which would count it done after 60 days. If this was an in person transaction then sure refund reputation dealers have to honor or would want to, there is no reason to come to another yet another 3rd party the boards to validate how your treating that exploited dealer.

 I mean. Good for the dealer, cause he can refund then block? And never have to deal with this transaction again? Too bad that after ebay guidelines would count it done that this unexpected expense would come up, as a "dealer seller" op put it that way, maybe he has the funds to refund and block. Which just exploits this thread and my response, cause if I had to sell comics, that would be for funds to use after ebay contract and obligations are done! When does it stop? Does Value matter? If I sold a hulk 181 9.2 to fund a ac heater unit, which I may have too eventually, and after all ebay obligations were done ebay demanded a refund even after 60 days? You call that fair? What if I've already purchased and installed my account in the heat of Texas then have to fork over 7000$ to refund a disgruntled customer. Considering. 3rd party cgc meet another 3rd party ebay, then 3rd party the boards, who still took his side, and has control of the sellers bank and is threatening to close his account? Cmon. One man's $500 or whatever this transcript is, is another 7000$

Principle of not in person deal? Or do we just all lipook the fool cause we thought obligated met?

Edited May 24, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM
Another* fork over* 3rd party the boards

[ExNihilo]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:22 PM, manetteska said:

I'm surprised eBay is doing anything in this case as the return window has closed.

I'm honestly surprised as well given eBay rarely does anything to get involved.  I had someone wrongfully give me a negative review for a transaction that never occurred.  I had to fight tooth and nail with eBay to get it expunged.  The fact that OP calls up eBay and says they have an issue that occurred outside of eBay's TOS and eBay says "oh sure, we'll look into that" boggles my mind.

On 5/23/2023 at 3:39 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

It kills me all the posts that seem to want to question my character.

I think you misconstrue those early comments.  No one questioned your character on page 1/page 2.  They merely posited a "what if".  You told your side of the story, and others came in playing devils advocate with how the seller potentially sees the situation.  Asking how someone responds, or where there is potential reason to question future instances similar to yours, is really no different than those of us asking what would have happened if CGC hadn't returned the book to you for 3, 4, 6, 12 months.

[ttfitz]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:11 PM, Lightning55 said:

This is the droid you were looking for but couldn't see, according to Obi-Wan.

It might appear to be, but you also took his response out of context, where it was in regards to this:

On 5/23/2023 at 1:09 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

I feel at best I may be 10% responsible for what's occurred since I did not do a page count when I got the comic.

"The situation" - having paid to grade a comic that was missing a centerfold - really was 100% his fault by not inspecting the item himself. @theCapraAegagrus previously said:

On 5/23/2023 at 11:31 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

This is a no-win situation considering that you didn't inspect the product yourself. While most logic points to the seller misrepresenting an incomplete book, there's no certainty that this is the case.

As an outsider, I say take the $100 partial refund and learn from your mistake.

Which suggests that he doesn't think the seller isn't responsible for selling a book that was not complete.

And even if we went with your interpretation, that's still just one person, not "what some posters on this forum have been saying." If I modify my response to say "almost everyone" would that be acceptable to you?