Seller sold an incomplete book to me - How would you respond? 10 10

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:29 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

I'm done. No more discussion on my part after this post or replies to any posters as I do not want this thread going any more sideways. 

I have admitted I made a mistake when I did not inspect the comic prior to submitting to CGC. And yes, I agree the length of time involved should impact any refund that the seller is willing to give. However, in my opinion this does not absolve the seller of any responsibility as some feel here since it is past 60 days. I guess I just grew up in a different time era where your word is your bond. Be it 30 days, 60 days, 1 year....

Absolutely NO OnE absolved the seller. Just silly to think that, what WAS said is its too late, mistakes happen cut your losses and learn.

Those would make you a nice guy in the future

The way my lcs always pit it is just because you regret a purchase doesn't mean they should bail you out. Is the seller wrong? Absolutely were you? Absolutely. There is no in-between or percentage. Just facts, and your trying to not get the short end of the stick. That's just being blunt.

[CAHokie]

This is unfortunate for sure. Imagine being the seller though, assuming he believed the book was complete.

Out of the blue after 2 months, a buyer types you and says hey, the centerfold is missing. He asks, was it there when it arrived and you say, I don’t know, I never looked. As the seller I would wonder if I was being scammed. Especially if he believes it was there. 
 

If someone knows enough to ask about a centerfold, value stamp, or similar, then they most likely know enough to look for it when the package arrives. Not for sure the Tesla analogy works. Color touch and trimming can be hard to spot, so that is a good argument. 
 

That being said I would refund you, but I wouldn’t like it because of the time lapse.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:18 PM, B2D327 said:

Doesn’t surprise me since you don’t think eBay’s TOS don’t apply to you either

Lol I was long winded too much coffee and you beat me to it.

 

[B2D327]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:40 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Lol I was long winded too much coffee and you beat me to it.

 

Aaaaand still….UNDEFEATED! 🤣🤣🤣

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 5/23/2023 at 3:04 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Sorry you took it that way. I already admitted my fault in this thread by not inspecting the book when I recieved it. But does this relieve the seller of all responsibility and puts 100% of the fault on me? That's is what some posters on this forum have been saying. I don't think so and that is what I have been stating. The seller still bears some responsibility. I asked the seller to confirm the comic book was complete. I did some due diligence, just not as much as I should have. I am partially responsible for this mess, not just 100% as some posters suggest. 

The seller owes you a refund for the raw book.  Nothing more.  Had you actually inspected the book and discovered the missing centerfold, the book would have just been returned.   That you sent it to CGC has nothing to do with the seller in this situation. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:45 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The seller owes you a refund for the raw book.  Nothing more.  Had you actually inspected the book and discovered the missing centerfold, the book would have just been returned.   That you sent it to CGC has nothing to do with the seller in this situation. 

Fo sho! A refund may be in order, and there are some generous boardies that may see $100 as not that much or even more of a refund. I'm not that windfall oriented 😂 there were both sides that didn't look good @O Doyle Rules. I'll respect that you don't want to comment further by saying we feel bad for you too and not just the seller.

We've been there! Some form or fashion or round about way, or even in threads like these. We have an expected outcome that eBay should honor the deal, as it has for who knows how long. If ebay sided with you fine, that's on eBay, some of us will block them too, we feel bad for you too, and if I as a seller messed up, I pray in God's name that I'd have the wherewithall to make amends. Been there both sides. Just new day, new mistakes, but that is why some guidelines and expected outcomes are in place. I probably wouldn't block you but that's my confidence to only sell already cgc slabs, and with qc Lord willing I still make a sale too eventually

 

[shadroch]

On 5/23/2023 at 4:37 PM, CAHokie said:

This is unfortunate for sure. Imagine being the seller though, assuming he believed the book was complete.

Out of the blue after 2 months, a buyer types you and says hey, the centerfold is missing. He asks, was it there when it arrived and you say, I don’t know, I never looked. As the seller I would wonder if I was being scammed. Especially if he believes it was there. 
 

If someone knows enough to ask about a centerfold, value stamp, or similar, then they most likely know enough to look for it when the package arrives. Not for sure the Tesla analogy works. Color touch and trimming can be hard to spot, so that is a good argument. 
 

That being said I would refund you, but I wouldn’t like it because of the time lapse.

Suppose it was consigned?  

[JollyComics]

Why all fuss up here? Look at other alternatives to blame and argue with others and here but you have to blame yourself for making a mistake. Learn your lesson and move on. I made my mistakes too and it can be preventable.

[eastriver400]

On 5/23/2023 at 4:56 PM, Dr. Love said:

yeh but this is not that industry.  Ever buy a house?  It's a more appropriate analogy.  Seller has to provide disclosures for what they purport to know - not what they should know.  In hindsight, their knowledge may be incomplete or faulty.  Buyer has a specific window of time to do inspections, but doesn't have to.  Buyer waives inspection and goes through with the purchase and subsequently discovers undisclosed or incorrect info about the house condition.  Can the buyer sue?  Absolutely.  Will they win?  Absolutely not.  Are they entitled to win?  Absolutely not.

As far as not "outing" the seller yet - giving them a chance to make it right...you think if they were to capitulate in the end that we still wouldn't deserve to know whether a seller is capable of performing a simple count, every time and without error?  As they represented to you they did?  That if you end up whole then no harm no foul and no jedi here to the rest of the community?

 

With misrepresentation, the rules change completely.  

In your real estate scenario if there were any misrepresentation or fraud (ex. Seller states in writing that the boiler or oven is new when it isn’t, or seller states there are no known leaks but it’s later discovered seller patched up the ceiling to hide the leaks) then Buyer can sue and will win regardless of the window of time that passes. Seller is not saying, house “as is” and instead is stating the examples I gave. It changes everything. 

OP is a victim of misrepresentation here. Seller, in writing, stated the book had no missing pages. Further, when buyer notified the Seller of the missing centerfold, seller admitted that he negligently misrepresented that the book was complete.  It was an honest mistake. 
 

I agree with many here that Buyer should have inspected the book.  If Seller stated the book was complete when he sent it to the Buyer and Seller claimed it may have been CGC at fault, then Buyer would have been completely out of luck. Who is to say that CGC didn’t mangle the centerfold at that point?    But Seller admitted to his misrepresentation.  Changes everything. 
 

I believe buyer should get a FULL refund based on relying on that misrepresentation. CGC costs are on the buyer. No way seller should pay for that. 
 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by eastriver400

[Bumble Kitty]

To the OP, I hope this situation gets resolved to your satisfaction.

However, from my experience (and a few other boardies), it is not reasonable to expect a seller to pay for your CGC costs.  I also think 60 days is too long to expect a refund.  If you get one, consider yourself very fortunate.  

As a buyer, I always inspect my convention purchases BEFORE paying for them.  If I find something a few weeks or days later, it's on me.  If I want to spend some cash on this hobby, I better know how to grade and spot obvious color touch, trimming, etc.  If I have a susception but I am not sure, I ask a fellow boardie, even if I have to ask the dealer to hold the books for me.  If I can't grade or spot obvious restoration, then I should buy slabbed books.

As a seller, I offer returns (for any reason) on raw books, but 60 days would irk me.  Would I do it?  Probably.  Would I reimburse slabbing costs.  No.  If you want to crack the book out and send back as raw, that's fine by me.

I say this because I have been burned a few times.  I complained vehemently to the cat, but he just looked at me and yawned.  So I tried to increase my knowledge and skill level.  And you know what, the hobby fun factor went up too.

[CAHokie]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:51 PM, shadroch said:

Suppose it was consigned?  

I don’t understand the question in relation to my statement.  
 

Would I refund it as the seller or as the middle man? I admit, I am unfamiliar with how the cosigning business works so the best I can say is I don’t know.  
 

Mistakes happen, but on this one I would be more mad at myself than the seller. I would be thinking, why….didn’t…I … check??!  I would most likely just keep the book and get pissed off whenever I saw it. It would remind me to check next time though.

[CAHokie]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:54 PM, eastriver400 said:

But Seller admitted to his misrepresentation

I would like to see the screen cap of his exact verbiage. It would clarify things a bit. 

[FlyingDonut]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:33 PM, ExNihilo said:

I'm honestly surprised as well given eBay rarely does anything to get involved.  I had someone wrongfully give me a negative review for a transaction that never occurred.  I had to fight tooth and nail with eBay to get it expunged.  The fact that OP calls up eBay and says they have an issue that occurred outside of eBay's TOS and eBay says "oh sure, we'll look into that" boggles my mind.

I think you misconstrue those early comments.  No one questioned your character on page 1/page 2.  They merely posited a "what if".  You told your side of the story, and others came in playing devils advocate with how the seller potentially sees the situation.  Asking how someone responds, or where there is potential reason to question future instances similar to yours, is really no different than those of us asking what would have happened if CGC hadn't returned the book to you for 3, 4, 6, 12 months.

This absolutely 100% IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

[Lightning55]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:09 PM, ttfitz said:

Where are you seeing that? I didn't see anyone who said that it was "100% your fault". Now, getting it graded without inspecting it yourself was 100% your fault, so you shouldn't expect to get the seller to cover that. Beyond that, full refund or a mutually agreed partial refund is reasonable.

I was just pointing out that there was an instance, right or wrong.

[eastriver400]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:05 PM, CAHokie said:

I would like to see the screen cap of his exact verbiage. It would clarify things a bit. 

I agree 100%. I’m going only by what OP has stated.  No offense to OP, but there could be more to this story.

[justafan]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:33 PM, ramrodcar said:

Likewise if the buyer would've spent 1min to count the pages within 30 days, this situation wouldn't exist either. Trust but verify folks.

This advice cannot be overstated but goes for both buyers and sellers.  As a seller, I always inspect each book right before I pack it for shipping.  I even do this for moderns.  Even if I know I already went through the book the first time around when I graded it and listed and it has been sitting in short box for years while listed on ebay, I do this for 2 very good reasons. 

1. To make sure it is still in the same condition as advertised and I still agree with the grade I advertised (sometimes you can miss things the first time around).  I've had to inform buyers of issues with the copy they bought and let them decide to proceed with the purchase or refund them their money.

2. To make sure there's nothing valuable hidden inside.  I've found $$, autographed flyers, and even a treasury bond in comics before. 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:11 PM, eastriver400 said:

On 5/23/2023 at 8:05 PM, CAHokie said:

I would like to see the screen cap of his exact verbiage. It would clarify things a bit. 

I agree 100%. I’m going only by what OP has stated.  No offense to OP, but there could be more to this story.

@O Doyle Rules

[ttfitz]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:48 PM, justafan said:

This advice cannot be overstated but goes for both buyers and sellers.  As a seller, I always inspect each book right before I pack it for shipping.

I always count pages. There is a well respected dealer - not just here, but countrywide - who I bought some books mail order one time that when I got the shipment, one of the books had a missing centerfold. He apologized, refunded my money, and everything was good. I can't remember whether it happened again, but I got the idea he didn't do a page count regularly, so every time I made a purchase from him, I asked him to count the pages before he shipped them out.

And what do I do when I get my package? Yep, I count the pages - not because I don't trust him, but because people can miss things, and if I don't check, that's on me.

[Lightning55]

This thread sounds so familiar...a lot like this one at "the other guys" https://forum.cbcscomics.com/topic/11280/page/1/bad-deal-with-a-decent-outcome/#22

[ADAMANTIUM]