Seller sold an incomplete book to me - How would you respond? 10 10

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/23/2023 at 4:00 PM, eastriver400 said:

...in your case because you had to send the item to an impartial 3rd party (CGC) in order to see if the seller misrepresented the item.

This isn't slightly true, though. It's actually precisely the problem with this scenario.

[eastriver400]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:56 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

This isn't slightly true, though. It's actually precisely the problem with this scenario.

Based on the facts he gave us, it is true.  Again, if Seller sold the book “as-is”, or gave an opinion as what he believed the grade was, or even said it looked like it was a complete book, then Buyer would be out of luck. Caveat Emptor would apply. 
 

 

Seller misrepresented (in writing) to buyer that book was complete (not his opinion, but fact that it was complete).

Buyer relied on that representation (he was induced to buy that book BASED on that misrepresentation).

OP wrote he believed opening the book might mess with its integrity (head scratcher, but that was his belief).

Buyer only learned of that representation AFTER sending to 3rd party.

Seller admits to buyer he made an honest mistake.

 

This is precisely why Sellers of used items use words like “as-is”, or “I’m not a professional grader”.

 

On another note, consider having to open up every box you bring home from the supermarket to make sure there is food in the boxes and not rocks? Who would want to be a part of that type of society?   Seller should have protected himself by simply stating it looks like it is complete or even that he thinks it may be. Once Seller wrote that it IS INDEED complete, buyer was induced to make the purchase. 
 

It’s also 60 days later, and while that is over the 30 day period period, it still seems like a reasonable amount of time to me at least. Maybe it isn’t. We will see (hopefully if OP ever comes back to this thread). 

 

 

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:40 AM, eastriver400 said:

Based on the facts he gave us, it is true.

Nah, it's purely false that anyone "has to" send anything to CGC.

[eastriver400]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:06 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Nah, it's purely false that anyone "has to" send anything to CGC.

In that sense yes.  But if you or I were buying a diamond, and the diamond seller, in writing, purported that we we were indeed buying a genuine diamond. And we later had that diamond certified and it turned out to be glass, we would sue and hopefully get our money back. 
 

 

FOR THE RECORD, I foresee no future situation where you and I would be purchasing a diamond together. You seem like a decent guy, but there is no way it would work out. I’m a Gunn guy, you are a Snyder guy. It just can’t work. It’s not you, it’s me. 
 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by eastriver400

[O Doyle Rules]

I am back on with an update for those who asked. I probably won't be responding to posters other than to answer questions on how this ongoing process works out. The seller still has not responded to me since May 18th. eBay made it clear again that their money back guarantee does not apply since it is past 30 days. I was aware of this and stated as much in my very first post. All eBay has said all along is that the seller could possibly have his account suspended after their investigation due to the possible misrepresentation. This was stated as well in my very first post. I was in hopes that this additional pressure may cause the seller to start to communicate again with me to reach a fair resolution. 

eBay advised me that they had in fact communicated with the seller. I was advised today by eBay to report the seller as violating their policies, they will complete their investigation and once again the seller's account could be suspended. I did file the report due to the misrepresentation (honest mistake most likely I still feel), his admitting to the error and offering $100.00 as a resolution, and then his failure to communicate over the past week to try to resolve the matter. One thing I failed to mention that I had offered the seller that I would accept a comic(s) to resolve the matter instead of cash. Instead of the $100.00, he had also offered two comics which were probably valued less than $100.00. 

I want to express again that I fully understand that I contributed to this mess by my failure not to inspect the comic prior to sending it off to CGC. That is on me. Also I fully understood that this was past eBay's window of return of 30 days for their money back guarantee. Once again, that is on me by my actions. So I won't be commenting on those two subjects any more. However, this has nothing to do with eBay in reality - this is just the platform the seller has chosen to sell his comics. The issue is between me and the seller and if he intends to honor his word by working out a fair resolution. I do find it troubling that there are some who feel since we are well past 30 days the seller has no obligation to attempt to make things right. This is an invitation for fraud. Sellers who hide behind any selling platform rules once it is discovered that the seller made a substantial mistake and won't make it right even if it is past 30 days I think is wrong. That's my opinion. In certain cases, it could even be fraud. Let me be clear - I do not think my purchase was fraud. I do believe the seller made an honest mistake. I have sold comics in the past - anytime a buyer was unhappy with their purchase for any reason I would always offer a full refund for the comic back or a partial refund if that's what they wanted. Sometimes, I told buyers for lower valued comics who were unhappy to keep the comics and here is a full refund. 

Here's a thought - maybe selling platforms should extend the time period to return an item when it's proven that a more serious infraction occurred such as misrepresentation. I may be lobbying eBay for such a change. 

Here is eBay's boiler plate response I got back when I reported the seller:

We’re looking into it

 

Thanks for letting us know about the issue you had with an eBay seller. We’re looking into your report and appreciate you taking the time to get in touch. We’ll take it from here. 

Hearing from community members like you helps us keep our marketplace safe and fair for everyone. If you’d like to learn more about how eBay protects buyers and sellers, check out our rules and policies.
If you have any questions or concerns, just get in touch. We’re here to help.

Thanks,
eBay

Edited May 24, 2023 by O Doyle Rules

[ADAMANTIUM]

Ya that was the expected result, which also sucks I know, but that's the way it's been for quite some time. It sucks, when two presumably honest people work together, there are pitfalls. It doesn't make it right, but in a no win kind of situation, it's half expected that it is what it is plays out.

Sorry about the book and situation. No harm meant towards you @O Doyle Rules it's just most of us have seen this play out and know the end result. In this kind of situation or past that, it's an individual basis that sucks this go around.

[ExNihilo]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:47 AM, O Doyle Rules said:

I do find it troubling that there are some who feel since we are well past 30 days the seller has no obligation to attempt to make things right.

Do we feel this is the right thing?  Of course not.  But it's the reality we live in.  Companies have refund windows, beyond which buyers rights decrease.

You misconstrue our words as agreement when it isn't.  It's just realizing the limits of what can be done on certain platforms.

[Flanders82]

That's why it's important to use a credit card or paypal as the Ebay payment method. I  believe you can file a claim through paypal for up to 180 days and your credit card co. for up to a year. I didn't read through all 8 pages, but have you clarified which payment method you used and if you've filed a claim through them as well? 

 

 

[jimjum12]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:47 AM, O Doyle Rules said:

In certain cases, it could even be fraud. Let me be clear - I do not think my purchase was fraud. I do believe the seller made an honest mistake.

Let's be honest with ourselves here, him not finding a missing centerfold is not an honest mistake, it is a lazy mistake. If I were you, I would go to Paypal, as has been suggested, and initiate a chargeback due to "item not as represented". Pretty sure you have 180 days. In the future, if you are in doubt to page count, I believe Mycomicshop provides that info on their site for most any book. Don't let one bad egg ruin the Golden Age for you ... it's one of the coolest niches in our hobby. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited May 24, 2023 by jimjum12

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/24/2023 at 12:50 PM, Flanders82 said:

That's why it's important to use a credit card or paypal as the Ebay payment method. I  believe you can file a claim through paypal for up to 180 days and your credit card co. for up to a year. I didn't read through all 8 pages, but have you clarified which payment method you used and if you've filed a claim through them as well? 

I did use paypal and I may go that route if the seller continues to ignore me. I really don't understand why he does not want to try to reach a fair resolution. Easier for both parties in the long run. 

[shadroch]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:24 AM, O Doyle Rules said:

I did use paypal and I may go that route if the seller continues to ignore me. I really don't understand why he does not want to try to reach a fair resolution. Easier for both parties in the long run. 

He offered you what he felt was a fair resolution. You wanted more than he was willing to offer.  That doesn't make either of you wrong. 

[jimjum12]

At this point, he would have made it right, if he/she was that caliber of Individual. Some folks have honor, and some just simply want to put it to people. I wouldn't wait much longer. Tell him you're going to Paypal in a week if he doesn't mannup. Save the messages too, if it isn't too late. GOD BLESS... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited May 24, 2023 by jimjum12

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/24/2023 at 1:50 PM, jimjum12 said:

Don't let one bad egg ruin Golden Age for you ... it's one of the coolest niches in our hobby. GOD BLESS ... 

No I won't. I have the bug and love it. This thread while frustrated by some of the replies has been very helpful overall. I have received some good advice. I had learned by past mistakes to always ask about restoration, if the comic is complete, etc. One thing I found helpful was from @shadroch when he commented to make it clear to the seller that the comic is being sent into CGC and will the seller stand behind the purchase if restoration, comic not complete, etc. is discovered after 30 days. I need to look up that post and thank him. 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:46 PM, shadroch said:

2) Communicate.  If you know you are sending a book to CGC, tell the seller and ask if he will stand by his description.  That way, you aren't blindsiding him well after the transaction. 

Thank you for this advice. Found it very helpful going forward. 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, shadroch said:

He offered you what he felt was a fair resolution. You wanted more than he was willing to offer.  That doesn't make either of you wrong. 

I hear you. Except for the fact he has chosen to ignore me in trying to reach a resolution. I think he is definitely wrong to ignore customers. Besides this comic, I had purchased another one for substantial money from him. It was in his financial interest to keep me as a happy customer. I even tried to make it as easy as possible. I gave him the option to make it right with money or comics - or a combination of both. All my communication was kept polite and professional.  

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, jimjum12 said:

Tell him you're going to Paypal in a week if he doesn't mannup. Save the messages too, if it isn't too late. GOD BLESS... 

I made one last attempt with him pleading for him to communicate with me to negotiate a fair resolution. Hopefully, he comes forward. If not, unfortunately the Paypal route will be next. He could had saved us both a lot of trouble and kept a customer who had spent some big $$$ with him. As stated in my other post this was not the only comic I have purchased from him. 

[ThothAmon]

At this point you’re howling at the moon. All that’s left is to out the Fiddlem Ben and maybe clue us into the book at issue. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:50 AM, jimjum12 said:

him not finding a missing centerfold is not an honest mistake, it is a lazy mistake.

Boy, no kidding. And I've made that mistake myself when selling a GA book, and made it right with the buyer because I felt like an arsehat for overlooking something that was my responsibility to look for because I was too busy (which is just another word for lazy) to flip through the book when I first bought it.

If the seller owned up to it and gave the refund - he'd likely not make that mistake again. I know I won't and it was for less than the OPs book. I don't generally count pages on anything other than GA, so I'm not going to admit I'm perfect - but if you make a mistake as a seller, you have to try and do the right thing (whatever than may be) when you're in the wrong.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[The Lions Den]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:10 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

I made one last attempt with him pleading for him to communicate with me to negotiate a fair resolution. Hopefully, he comes forward. If not, unfortunately the Paypal route will be next. He could had saved us both a lot of trouble and kept a customer who had spent some big $$$ with him. As stated in my other post this was not the only comic I have purchased from him. 

What lessons have you learned from all this? 

[Buzzetta]

On 5/24/2023 at 4:48 PM, Fraggy said:

Open the fraggin' book like a real collector?

Have we met?