Seller sold an incomplete book to me - How would you respond? 10 10

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/24/2023 at 4:09 PM, Buzzetta said:

On 5/24/2023 at 3:48 PM, Fraggy said:

Open the fraggin' book like a real collector?

Have we met? 

[ExNihilo]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:52 AM, O Doyle Rules said:

It was in his financial interest to keep me as a happy customer.

Profits are a combination of expenses, revenue, and time.  The seller has determined that whatever you might spend on books, isn't worth the headache he's currently going through.  There's an entire thread devoted to blocking people from transacting despite the fact that they do in fact bring money to the table.  (The EBAY Blocked User List thread).

He was wrong.  You were wrong.  It's a transaction that both parties are at fault and both parties feel like they were more right than wrong.  From our perspective, a refund less CGC would be fair.  From his, you passed the 30 day terms and he's washed his hands clean of the transaction.  Both parties are right.  Both parties are wrong.  Without knowing the actual intent of the seller, it could be anything from an innocent mistake to outright fraud.  Whatever the case may be, there comes a point in time where your money no longer buys him happiness.  Hence, their decision to stop working with you on a resolution.

Edited May 24, 2023 by ExNihilo

[Flanders82]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:56 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

On 5/23/2023 at 1:00 PM, eastriver400 said:

...in your case because you had to send the item to an impartial 3rd party (CGC) in order to see if the seller misrepresented the item.

This isn't slightly true, though. It's actually precisely the problem with this scenario.

True, it's not like that guy that bought an expensive CGC high grade golden age book at auction that decided to resubmit it for a potential grade bump, only to have the Professionals at CGC determine they f'd up the first time, by overlooking a missing stamp or something along those lines, that lead it to getting a qualified grade.

Does anyone know what book I'm talking about and if so can you post a link to the forum post? 

Edit: I found the youtube video about it:

Do you think the seller is taking the $10k hit on this one or CGC? 

Comic Link :: The Online Vintage Comic Book and Comic Art Auction and Exchange

Edited May 25, 2023 by Flanders82

[Telegan]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:51 PM, Flanders82 said:

True, it's not like that guy that bought an expensive CGC high grade golden age book at auction that decided to resubmit it for a potential grade bump, only to have the Professionals at CGC determine they f'd up the first time, by overlooking a missing stamp or something along those lines, that lead it to getting a qualified grade. In this case seller should own the incomplete book now and at most the OP should be out the grading costs. 

Does anyone know what book I'm talking about and if so can you post a link to the forum post? 

Edit: I found the youtube video about it:

Do you think CGC is taking the $10k hit on this one or CGC? 

Comic Link :: The Online Vintage Comic Book and Comic Art Auction and Exchange

I was going to post about this a couple of months ago after watching it, but forgot about it.  There was a (apparently I can't say the "D" word, so I'll say... ) Richard Tracy coupon that was apparently cut out on the last page.  The first/9.6 grader may not have made it that far in the grading or just looked at the cover and said ... "yeah, that's a 9.6". LOL.  This kind of spoon scares the hell out of me.  I don't resubmit books - hell, I've never even had a comic book graded, but nowadays am too scared to buy raw books - especially expensive'ish ones.  If I got that 9.6, the last thing I'd do is try to get it re-graded, and it's basically because of stories like Keston talks about in that video.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Telegan

[ttfitz]

On 5/24/2023 at 1:50 PM, jimjum12 said:

On 5/24/2023 at 11:47 AM, O Doyle Rules said:

In certain cases, it could even be fraud. Let me be clear - I do not think my purchase was fraud. I do believe the seller made an honest mistake.

Let's be honest with ourselves here, him not finding a missing centerfold is not an honest mistake, it is a lazy mistake.

Yeah, I would agree. Given how the OP said the seller responded - "He was clear that the comic was complete with no cutouts" suggests to me that he probably didn't count the pages, and didn't notice the missing centerfold, having mostly looked for "cutouts" in his inspection.

[ttfitz]

On 5/24/2023 at 5:17 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Yeah, that's totally gonna work!

[wombat]

I'm curious what the cutoff for the OP is on length of time. They stated it would be unreasonable if they got the book back a year later to ask for a refund. So where is the line in the sand?

[Nick Furious]

On 5/24/2023 at 10:34 PM, wombat said:

I'm curious what the cutoff for the OP is on length of time. They stated it would be unreasonable if they got the book back a year later to ask for a refund. So where is the line in the sand?

I think the formula is twice your age plus 30.  Or any number greater than 60.

[wombat]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:37 PM, Nick Furious said:

I think the formula is twice your age plus 30.  Or any number greater than 60.

 

[Nick Furious]

Honestly, I faced a similar situation with a convention dealer that I saw once or twice a year.  I bought a decent value book from him as a raw 9.4.  It graded at CGC 9.4 but with a green label because the centerfold was detached.  6 months later I brought the book to him at a convention.  I didn't want to create a "zero sum" situation where he lost money by reimbursing me, so I asked for a credit.  He accepted and took the book back for a credit towards other purchases.  I think the difference here is that we had a history together and I offered a solution that didn't have him losing money in the form of cash.  I would suggest the same resolution in this situation...ask the dealer for a credit equal to your total costs...be willing to accept a compromise that does not include grading fees.  I did not ask for grading fees as part of my credit...it was my choice to get the book slabbed and the dealer had no say in that.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:51 PM, Flanders82 said:

True, it's not like that guy that bought an expensive CGC high grade golden age book at auction that decided to resubmit it for a potential grade bump, only to have the Professionals at CGC determine they f'd up the first time, by overlooking a missing stamp or something along those lines, that lead it to getting a qualified grade.

Does anyone know what book I'm talking about and if so can you post a link to the forum post? 

Edit: I found the youtube video about it:

Do you think the seller is taking the $10k hit on this one or CGC? 

Comic Link :: The Online Vintage Comic Book and Comic Art Auction and Exchange

Yup. As others have mentioned; Trust, but verify. Even the professionals get it wrong sometimes.

[Gaard]

On 5/24/2023 at 10:34 PM, ttfitz said:

Yeah, that's totally gonna work!

It wouldn't surprise me if the girl did respond, only to ask why he felt the need to insert the word 'near' in front of perfect.

[B2D327]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:46 PM, Nick Furious said:

Honestly, I faced a similar situation with a convention dealer that I saw once or twice a year.  I bought a decent value book from him as a raw 9.4.  It graded at CGC 9.4 but with a green label because the centerfold was detached.  6 months later I brought the book to him at a convention.  I didn't want to create a "zero sum" situation where he lost money by reimbursing me, so I asked for a credit.  He accepted and took the book back for a credit towards other purchases.  I think the difference here is that we had a history together and I offered a solution that didn't have him losing money in the form of cash.  I would suggest the same resolution in this situation...ask the dealer for a credit equal to your total costs...be willing to accept a compromise that does not include grading fees.  I did not ask for grading fees as part of my credit...it was my choice to get the book slabbed and the dealer had no say in that.  

I think this is a reasonable and beneficial to both sides, not only from a financial standpoint but a learning experience for both when it comes to buying/selling 

[rsouxlja7]

delete

Edited May 26, 2023 by rsouxlja7

[shadroch]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:25 PM, ttfitz said:

Yeah, I would agree. Given how the OP said the seller responded - "He was clear that the comic was complete with no cutouts" suggests to me that he probably didn't count the pages, and didn't notice the missing centerfold, having mostly looked for "cutouts" in his inspection.

Does that sound like an experienced comic dealer?  

[Robot Man]

On 5/24/2023 at 8:46 PM, Nick Furious said:

Honestly, I faced a similar situation with a convention dealer that I saw once or twice a year.  I bought a decent value book from him as a raw 9.4.  It graded at CGC 9.4 but with a green label because the centerfold was detached.  6 months later I brought the book to him at a convention.  I didn't want to create a "zero sum" situation where he lost money by reimbursing me, so I asked for a credit.  He accepted and took the book back for a credit towards other purchases.  I think the difference here is that we had a history together and I offered a solution that didn't have him losing money in the form of cash.  I would suggest the same resolution in this situation...ask the dealer for a credit equal to your total costs...be willing to accept a compromise that does not include grading fees.  I did not ask for grading fees as part of my credit...it was my choice to get the book slabbed and the dealer had no say in that.  

This, actually makes the most sense in regard to all the responses I have read. 

[Robot Man]

On 5/25/2023 at 7:27 AM, shadroch said:

Does that sound like an experienced comic dealer?  

It sounds more like a sloppy comic dealer.

 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:20 PM, ThothAmon said:

At this point you’re howling at the moon.

I can't control myself. 

 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:55 PM, The Lions Den said:

What lessons have you learned from all this? 

Several - I will try to list them once this saga plays out to the end. 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:34 PM, wombat said:

I'm curious what the cutoff for the OP is on length of time. They stated it would be unreasonable if they got the book back a year later to ask for a refund. So where is the line in the sand?

Since there is clear misrepresentation involved in this transaction, I would say 6 months would be a reasonable time to recover for the loss. Paypal allows 6 months.