Calling on long time collectors. How did you price in the '80s & 90s? 2 2

[2Sunny]

I'm curious how much change longtime collectors have seen between desirability and pricing of higher grades.  Personally, I see books that are VG that I would have no problem collecting.  I even recently bought a CGC 3.0 early ASM that I find perfectly acceptable.  As a "born again" collector I don't see the need to pay the premium price afforded CGC 9.0 and up, and I'm just wondering if the gap from VG to NM was as big before CGC and the internet as it is today because my assumption is not.

 

Did you as a collector try for NM whenever you could or were you satisfied with collecting lower grades, and how did you know if the prices you ran across at a convention or a LCS were fair? 

Did you have thousands of prices memorized in your head or did you just go on intuition or maybe just collect items you were familiar with?

 

Anyways, just curious how dramatically or not times have changed as regards prices and grading.

Edited June 6, 2023 by 2Sunny

[lizards2]

If I recall correctly, grading was a lot looser, or there were not as many grades. You basically had the Overstreet Price Guide, and maybe priced according to NM, FN, VG, with those grades encompassing the books both below and above those grades. 

I always collected in as close to NM as possible, which was a great "strategy" for the books I accumulated, but left me out of the earlier issues of ASM, FF, etc., because they were nonexistent at the conventions and stores I frequented. I should have focused on those earlier issues in whatever the grade, now I'm basically priced out of the market on even low grade copies.

I pretty much knew OSPG guide prices for the titles I collected when out and about shopping for comics.

As far as the intuition part, I remember in 1988/1989 that OSPG started coming out with quarterly price guide magazines, and values were increasing fast. But I also remember buying a ton of Marvel and DC - later Strange Tales, Tales to Astonish, Tales of Suspense for $2 a piece in NM or a little less. Same with Action, Adventure, and Detective. My comics dealer got in a "minty collection" so I actually raided my savings account to buy as much as I could because everything was so cheap at the time that I just couldn't see anything but a run up in price. I remember getting a Captain America 100 and Hulk 102 for about $10 each in NM, and the next quarterly OSPG that came out the prices went up to $100. I also bought Amazing Spider-man 50-65 for about $10 each in NM. This was all to best of my recollection in the winter of 1989 when I was in Boise - all those books were beautiful white pagers. I know I kid around with @johnenock about his "Idaho Whites" because the PQ of books coming out of that area were/are remarkable - no humidity, no pollution, etc.

Back then, the price split between VG to FN to NM was about 1 2 3 - not like today, where it can run 1 10 100. Pricing and grading have both dramatically changed from back then to now.

[whomerjay]

'm curious how much change longtime collectors have seen between desirability and pricing of higher grades.  Personally, I see books that are VG that I would have no problem collecting.  
 

I’d say the population of all comic collectors are like you. As are several on these boards. But high grade collectors, willing to pay more, and preferably in slabbed books, are greatly over represented on these boards (it is after all the CGC boards).

As a "born again" collector I don't see the need to pay the premium price afforded CGC 9.0 and up, and I'm just wondering if the gap from VG to NM was as big before CGC and the internet as it is today because my assumption is not.

The gap was much smaller as were the number of commonly discussed graded (G VG F VF NM)

Did you as a collector try for NM whenever you could or were you satisfied with collecting lower grades,

very much depends on book; most here will go highest grade “whenever they could” with “could” open to interpretation.

and how did you know if the prices you ran across at a convention or a LCS were fair? 

Purely a function of how much time you invest in pricing resources, and if you know how to grade.

Did you have thousands of prices memorized in your head

In a way but eBay and GPAnalysis are but a click away

 

or did you just go on intuition

dangerous

 

or maybe just collect items you were familiar with?

yes

 

Anyways, just curious how dramatically or not times have changed as regards prices and grading.

they’ve changed a lot and sometimes very quickly 
 

Edited

[THE_BEYONDER]

90’s?

 

 

[ramithard]

not to hijack, but where is the best website to find prices in raw grade?   doe the Overstreet website have that if you pay the $5 - $9 a month??

 

thanks

[C. Spaulding]

On 6/6/2023 at 3:32 PM, ramithard said:

not to hijack, but where is the best website to find prices in raw grade?   doe the Overstreet website have that if you pay the $5 - $9 a month??

 

thanks

For raw books, eBay sold listings might be the best option. Heritage can be another useful tool.

[2Sunny]

On 6/6/2023 at 1:33 PM, lizards2 said:

If I recall correctly, grading was a lot looser, or there were not as many grades. You basically had the Overstreet Price Guide, and maybe priced according to NM, FN, VG, with those grades encompassing the books both below and above those grades. 

I always collected in as close to NM as possible, which was a great "strategy" for the books I accumulated, but left me out of the earlier issues of ASM, FF, etc., because they were nonexistent at the conventions and stores I frequented. I should have focused on those earlier issues in whatever the grade, now I'm basically priced out of the market on even low grade copies.

I pretty much knew OSPG guide prices for the titles I collected when out and about shopping for comics.

As far as the intuition part, I remember in 1988/1989 that OSPG started coming out with quarterly price guide magazines, and values were increasing fast. But I also remember buying a ton of Marvel and DC - later Strange Tales, Tales to Astonish, Tales of Suspense for $2 a piece in NM or a little less. Same with Action, Adventure, and Detective. My comics dealer got in a "minty collection" so I actually raided my savings account to buy as much as I could because everything was so cheap at the time that I just couldn't see anything but a run up in price. I remember getting a Captain America 100 and Hulk 102 for about $10 each in NM, and the next quarterly OSPG that came out the prices went up to $100. I also bought Amazing Spider-man 50-65 for about $10 each in NM. This was all to best of my recollection in the winter of 1989 when I was in Boise - all those books were beautiful white pagers. I know I kid around with @johnenock about his "Idaho Whites" because the PQ of books coming out of that area were/are remarkable - no humidity, no pollution, etc.

Back then, the price split between VG to FN to NM was about 1 2 3 - not like today, where it can run 1 10 100. Pricing and grading have both dramatically changed from back then to now.

Your description makes me sorry I wasn't collecting back then.   Gives me that nostalgic chill.  Thanks for sharing!

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 6/6/2023 at 4:19 PM, C. Spaulding said:

On 6/6/2023 at 3:32 PM, ramithard said:

not to hijack, but where is the best website to find prices in raw grade?   doe the Overstreet website have that if you pay the $5 - $9 a month??

 

thanks

Expand  

For raw books, eBay sold listings might be the best option. Heritage can be another useful tool.

Does MCS maintain sold listings?

[bc]

On 6/6/2023 at 4:35 PM, 2Sunny said:

Your description makes me sorry I wasn't collecting back then.   Gives me that nostalgic chill.  Thanks for sharing!

It really was about the "hunt" back then. A lot of times you where just happy to find a book let alone worry about the NM factor. Mail order was a wait and pray game, no internet back then. Lived out in the country, didn't have any LCS options within an hour+ drive. Had to hit the convenience stores regularly to grab my new books, started a direct account sometime in the mid-80's which was like getting a Christmas present every month.

My OSPGs were nearly falling apart by the time the next years came out. Had a lot of paper notes jammed into them that I used at cons as a want list.

As others have mentioned, there was basically 3 or 4 grade tiers, some people used the "+" or "-" as an added note. The pricing multiplier between tiers was much less significant than with slabbed books. As lizards2 mentioned, it was close to a 1:2:3 pricing multiplier between grades.

-bc

 

[Ed Hanes]

I have noticed a lot less use of the "-ish" term..finish, goodish, etc

[Ed Hanes]

On 6/6/2023 at 1:50 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Does MCS maintain sold listings?

you can only access MCS sold listings under that particular issue if it's going to auction or has been in a recent auction from the past couple months

[valiantman]

On 6/6/2023 at 3:35 PM, 2Sunny said:

Your description makes me sorry I wasn't collecting back then.   Gives me that nostalgic chill.  Thanks for sharing!

CGC has identified restoration on about 1-in-every-7 comic books from 1945 or earlier.

When it comes to keys, such as Action #1 or Detective #27, restoration is 40% to 50% of the CGC graded copies.

Amazing Fantasy #15 (1962) has restoration on 40% of the CGC graded copies.

How many buyers were aware of what they were getting back in the 'good old days'?

[Dr. Balls]

In the 90's I used Wizard and Overstreet's monthly publications to price out books. I had a very outdated yearly Overstreet for anything obscure that might come into the store. I changed prices frequently back then. Grading was really where the swings happened - 90's NM is today's VF. A friend and former customer of mine gave me a few books that still had my price tags on them from 30 years ago (GA romance), and I had FN marked down when it was easily in VG range. 

[lizards2]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:55 PM, valiantman said:

CGC has identified restoration on about 1-in-every-7 comic books from 1945 or earlier.

When it comes to keys, such as Action #1 or Detective #27, restoration is 40% to 50% of the CGC graded copies.

Amazing Fantasy #15 (1962) has restoration on 40% of the CGC graded copies.

How many buyers were aware of what they were getting back in the 'good old days'?

I don't know, but I know I had a good enough eye for restoration, even back in the eighties, that I was calling it to the attention of shop owners and pointing it out on their wall and bin books.

[lizards2]

On 6/6/2023 at 3:21 PM, Dr. Balls said:

In the 90's I used Wizard and Overstreet's monthly publications to price out books. I had a very outdated yearly Overstreet for anything obscure that might come into the store. I changed prices frequently back then. Grading was really where the swings happened - 90's NM is today's VF. A friend and former customer of mine gave me a few books that still had my price tags on them from 30 years ago (GA romance), and I had FN marked down when it was easily in VG range. 

That's interesting, because I see so many books listed as FN on these boards that look clearly VG or worse to me. But lower grades were never my area of grading expertise.

[bc]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:55 PM, valiantman said:

CGC has identified restoration on about 1-in-every-7 comic books from 1945 or earlier.

When it comes to keys, such as Action #1 or Detective #27, restoration is 40% to 50% of the CGC graded copies.

Amazing Fantasy #15 (1962) has restoration on 40% of the CGC graded copies.

How many buyers were aware of what they were getting back in the 'good old days'?

While very interesting data to notate (as always), most of my collecting friends were grabbing SA and early BA books back in the late 70's & early 80's which were cheap enough to not have much artificial work done to them. Every one I knew was a run collector back then filling in missing issues. We had a Marvel camp and a DC camp.

Other than a few books, didn't start getting into GA until after CGC started to avoid that specific issue (should have taken the plunge sooner in hindsight).

-bc

[JollyComics]

MCS (Lone Star Comics) used VG, FN and NM in early days.

[Gatsby77]

I think the weirdest thing about collecting in the late '80s/early '90s was how common Silver Age Marvels were (or at least, seemed).

I started collecting right on the cusp of when Iron Man # 1 went from a $12 book to a $48 book in NM.

And you'd go to conventions and see tables with literal piles of 20-30 copies per of high-grade Iron Man # 1, Silver Surfer # 48s & Conan # 1s.

They were expensive - relative to other 1965-1975 books, but they were there, available and in-bulk.

As stated, they were likely mostly strict 8.0-9.0 by CGC standards but still legit high-grade and common.

My favorite articles in the Overstreet Updates were by Keith Contarino, who did an excellent job of chronicling the rise of Bronze Age books as collectibles - forget whether it was 1990 or 1991 that saw a bunch of Bronze keys jump from $8 to like $50 -- as well as real market recognition of such books as Iron Fist 14, Lois Lane 70 and - of course - Iron Man # 55.

I remember making money mowing lawns and looking wistfully up at wall keys as Werewolf By Night # 32 ($24), Iron Fist 14 ($55) and Hulk # 181 ($250) and then plunking down my money on the Liefeld New Mutants issues - as well as slowly working my way backwards on the Wolverine (1988) and Batman runs, $3-$8 at a time.

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/6/2023 at 4:24 PM, lizards2 said:

That's interesting, because I see so many books listed as FN on these boards that look clearly VG or worse to me. But lower grades were never my area of grading expertise.

FN is such a gigantic catch all grade, I think it's easy to throw a lot of stuff into there. When I got back into comics last year (and after not grading or looking at books for about 7 years), I really had to scrutinize more, because I was finding myself putting VGs into that FN category. Thankfully, I was buying a lot of cheap beaters and got some good practice in. 

[Cman429]

I was aware of Overstreet around early to mid 90s and had seen their grading scale/criteria but I just remember grading being very basic and general like Poor, Good, Fine, Mint and not the detail we have now with numbers and minuses/pluses. I’m pretty sure the price guides only listed a handful of grade categories for each book, 

I bought an ASM 24 at a con in the mid 90s and honestly don’t even remember the dealer talking about the grade. I don’t remember every book at booths being labeled with grades. When I bought a pricey back issue - and by pricey I’m talking $30-50 for keys not the ludicrous prices now - I just remember the dealer taking it down, unbagging it, and going into their salesman spiel pointing out what’s nice, what’s not so nice and why I’m getting a good deal.

I miss those days but I guess life is easier now since there’s no debate or hucksterism necessary when you have a wall of CGC graded slabs.