Dear Marvel, You Suck. 2 2

[Ryan.]

On 6/8/2023 at 6:49 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

IDK if SIKTC is an indy, but I did read and enjoy the first 15 issues of that. To your point, though, I haven't read many indy comics. My attack was meant mainly for Marvel/DC.

Gotcha. I lost interest in most mainstream superhero comics probably 20 years ago so I can't comment on them with any degree of authority. I did check out this Punisher series though since it looked interesting and enjoyed most of it except for when Dr. Strange and Wolverine, etc entered the story. Super-powered beings throwing fireballs at each other is completely uninteresting to me.

[troydivision1]

On 6/8/2023 at 3:35 AM, Beige said:

Jon Berthnal got this character spot on in the TV show, and rekindled interest in old fans, and gained new ones.

With Frank teaming up with DD in the new series - what's the point of dumping Frank now?

There is no way this is permanent.
Kevin Feige oversees all of Marvel so that their verticals are in sync.
Expect a 'return of the Punisher' before his return on Daredevil: Born Again next year.
But perhaps with no logo...

Recently, I've learned that seeing the logo is a 'dogwhistle' for particular groups of people.
I then had to ask what a 'dogwhistle' was.

I was against the logo change (I started a thread before the first issue dropped) because it was 'giving in' to those that co-opted the logo.
They should have leaned in to pushing those people away from it.

edit: original thread started when issue #1 dropped

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by troy.division

[THE_BEYONDER]

So....is ASM 129 crashing yet?

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

Like a bomb!

[lizards2]

On 6/8/2023 at 3:59 AM, troy.division said:

Recently, I've learned that seeing the logo is a 'dogwhistle' for particular groups of people.
I then had to ask what a 'dogwhistle' was.
 

 

Only dogs can hear it?

[F For Fake]

Remember when they made the Punisher a supernatural angel with some kinda ghost guns?

Remember when they put the Punisher in surgical black face?

Remember when they turned the Punisher into Frankenstein?

There is a long, rich history of the Punisher having dumb mess happen to him. This is just another chapter. I'm sure he'll be back at some point.

[Gonzimodo]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:33 AM, F For Fake said:

Remember when they made the Punisher a supernatural angel with some kinda ghost guns?

Remember when they put the Punisher in surgical black face?

Remember when they turned the Punisher into Frankenstein?

There is a long, rich history of the Punisher having dumb mess happen to him. This is just another chapter. I'm sure he'll be back at some point.

I think you're right, but I'm guessing he'll be on the sidelines a lot longer this time - at least until the current editorial and creative "talent" at Marvel are gone.  It may be awhile...

[shadroch]

Remember  Armor Wars where Iron Man went out and rounded up everything that was built using his tech?

Perhaps a 12-issue series where Frank Castle reclaims his beloved logo from the scum who have appropriated it.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:45 AM, shadroch said:

Remember  Armor Wars where Iron Man went out and rounded up everything that was built using his tech?

Perhaps a 12-issue series where Frank Castle reclaims his beloved logo from the scum who have appropriated it.

[Sauce Dog]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:45 AM, shadroch said:

Remember  Armor Wars where Iron Man went out and rounded up everything that was built using his tech?

Perhaps a 12-issue series where Frank Castle reclaims his beloved logo from the scum who have appropriated it.

That would be twelve issues of non-stop cop killing.

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:33 AM, F For Fake said:

Remember when they made the Punisher a supernatural angel with some kinda ghost guns?

Remember when they put the Punisher in surgical black face?

Remember when they turned the Punisher into Frankenstein?

There is a long, rich history of the Punisher having dumb mess happen to him. This is just another chapter. I'm sure he'll be back at some point.

Very true - I always expect Marvel to throw dumb stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. This time, it sounds as if he's being referred to as some sort of 'cancer' on the Marvel Universe that can't be cured, with other characters trying to "change his mind" and then trotting out his dead wife to say she was going to divorce him before she was killed. This goes beyond dumb ideas into blatant character-destroying territory.

I'm not an expert in all of those idiotic permutations they've delved into - but I don't recall them re-writing his origin so significantly. It's almost as if someone thought "if we remove his reasoning for motivation, we can just drop the character altogether."

[F For Fake]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:27 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Very true - I always expect Marvel to throw dumb stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. This time, it sounds as if he's being referred to as some sort of 'cancer' on the Marvel Universe that can't be cured, with other characters trying to "change his mind" and then trotting out his dead wife to say she was going to divorce him before she was killed. This goes beyond dumb ideas into blatant character-destroying territory.

I'm not an expert in all of those idiotic permutations they've delved into - but I don't recall them re-writing his origin so significantly. It's almost as if someone thought "if we remove his reasoning for motivation, we can just drop the character altogether."

To be totally fair, I'm not the world's biggest Punisher fan, and really only like the stories where he is an irredeemable psychopath. Anytime they've tried to shoehorn him into superheroic situations, it's not worked for me. He's a deragned murdered. He doesn't really work with other superheroes, no matter how many times they've tried. Daredevil was the only time it worked for me, and that's because DD isn't exactly well adjusted himself. ha 

[MAR1979]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:27 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Very true - I always expect Marvel to throw dumb stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. This time, it sounds as if he's being referred to as some sort of 'cancer' on the Marvel Universe that can't be cured, with other characters trying to "change his mind" and then trotting out his dead wife to say she was going to divorce him before she was killed. This goes beyond dumb ideas into blatant character-destroying territory.

I'm not an expert in all of those idiotic permutations they've delved into - but I don't recall them re-writing his origin so significantly. It's almost as if someone thought "if we remove his reasoning for motivation, we can just drop the character altogether."

If it was not before your time, did you go crazy when Byrne and folks completely changed most of the Superman mythos? Most of it was undone as decades passed but the Businessman Tycoon Lex Luthor continues to the day replacing the evil scientist Luthor.

Then the 2011 New 52 Superman debacle (in my mind at least) that transformed Superman into what by my account was  a deee--baggggg

I mention Superman only in this post as the character inspired a genre and has been part of the fabric of Americana since WWII.... Batman has been altered as well multiple times. 

Inevitability it will all regress mostly back to the mean. If you don't like it don't buy it which is exactly why I've not purchased a single DC book after New 52 started and I know I'm not alone...

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by MAR1979

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:00 AM, F For Fake said:

To be totally fair, I'm not the world's biggest Punisher fan, and really only like the stories where he is an irredeemable psychopath. Anytime they've tried to shoehorn him into superheroic situations, it's not worked for me. He's a deragned murdered. He doesn't really work with other superheroes, no matter how many times they've tried. Daredevil was the only time it worked for me, and that's because DD isn't exactly well adjusted himself. ha 

I feel the same. My favorite Punisher arc were the beginning of Punisher: War Zone where he went undercover into the mafia and enacted his revenge that way. The other is Punisher: Max which were just great stories with topical crime elements. The Punisher should be taking on crime, drugs, etc - he's street level and I never liked it when he got roped into Avengers stuff (like Civil War) and the like. He worked well with DD because Matt Murdock was on the other end of a similar spectrum - I know it's hard to fill 50 years worth of storytelling in such confines, but come on. If you're a "professional writer" I would imagine that requires having a skillset that allows you to be creative on demand for a lot of circumstances.

 

On 6/8/2023 at 9:02 AM, MAR1979 said:

If it was not before your time, did you go crazy when Byrne and folks completely changed most of the Superman mythos? Most of it was undone as decades passed but the Businessman Tycoon Lex Luthor continues to the day replacing the evil scientist Luthor.

Then the 2011 New 52 Superman debacle (in my mind at least) that transformed Superman into what by my account was  a deee--baggggg

I mention Superman only in this post as the character inspired a genre and has been part of the fabric of Americana since WWII.... Batman has been altered as well multiple times. 

Inevitability it will all regress mostly back to the mean. If you don't like it don't buy it which is exactly why I've not purchased a single DC book after New 52 started and I know I'm not alone...

 

I was never a DC guy, so I'm not familiar with any of the Supes changes, but it sounds like changes that are too far beyond the character really don't resonate. Like I said above: if you are in a creative profession that is intertwined with marketing and sales, you have to balance the customer needs with the "refreshing" goal of revamping the character. Even if they try something and it doesn't work out, change it back.

Unfortunately, for the Punisher - it seems like they just want to get rid of him because he doesn't fit the (forgive me, as I hate this stupid term) "woke philosophies" of what Disney/Marvel want to push onto the world. And as we all know, there is no such thing as compromise when it comes to that mentality. It sounds like they've convinced themselves that the Punisher just doesn't fit into the world anymore and he's not redeemable. Which is a sad waste of a popular character. To think all the "creative" people there - no one can figure out a way to keep him around while giving him a modern, relevant refresh.

[Robot Man]

Disney has been ruining Marvel characters for years…

[Dr. Balls]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:05 AM, Robot Man said:

Disney has been ruining Marvel characters for years…

The upside is that tourism on Planet X is up since the movies came out.

[batmiesta]

On 6/8/2023 at 2:33 PM, F For Fake said:

Remember when they made the Punisher a supernatural angel with some kinda ghost guns?

Remember when they put the Punisher in surgical black face?

Remember when they turned the Punisher into Frankenstein?

There is a long, rich history of the Punisher having dumb mess happen to him. This is just another chapter. I'm sure he'll be back at some point.

I can't remember any of that sh!te, thank ! 

[Cman429]

1) nothing in comics is forever

2) if you don’t like a current version/storyline of a character, chances are you have plenty of other versions/volumes to catch up on so enjoy those

3) Punisher will never be done “right” owned by Disney and in our current climate bc the people in charge don’t like the people who like what the Punisher represents and are afraid of appealing to then in any way 

[CGC Mike]

I've just removed 1 post.  Lets keep politics to home, as they are not allowed here.

[NP_Gresham]

This is very different than the cookie cutter resets. How many #1 cover variants on ASM are we up to now?

The resentments here sound like the ‘wash rinse and repeat’ method is better than trying something a little different.

The ‘new Coke’ in a round about way breathed new life into the old product, so why not here?

I like that the house of ideas has returned, even if the results were disappointing.