QES or CVA certs (stickers) on GA Books? 2 2

[jimbo_7071]

On 7/29/2023 at 11:30 PM, tth2 said:

How can a book get a sticker for having an exceptional appearance when it has this kind of miswrap?

It has nice cover colors and appears strictly graded because the mis-wrap wouldn't affect the grade (and is slight by GA standards). But I think the real answer is, someone paid for the sticker. I won't be surprised if I eventually see one of these stickers on a remaindered copy. I mean, you could have a remaindered copy with nicer eye appeal than other remaindered copies, right?

[Cat-Man_America]

On 7/29/2023 at 2:32 PM, Dark Knight said:

There are multiple examples of books sold where the CVA sticker or QES sticker sold for more than a book without the sticker.  I have experienced this first hand as well when I auctioned off a major lower graded book but with high eye appeal. Of course you have to take into account the 1% fee to have the sticker on the book and see if it is worth it.  

I'm not suggesting it can't be profitable for a seller who decides to invest in it (nor am I judging those who choose to do it); this is just a natural evolution of encapsulation. Collectors have a tendency to allow themselves to be subjected to this kind of abuse.  We could see grading the grade coming years before and many of us laughed about this prospect till someone monetized it proving the point. I'm just recognizing the ridiculousness of taking this kind of thing too seriously. From my perspective, it's kinda like a sports car driver wearing an STP patch. 

[Professor K]

Dang jimbo that Catman 31 truly is exceptional. All the colors line up perfectly. Is it from a pedigree collection? . 

[DougC]

I toyed around with the idea of this but 2% of declared value (adjusted up if under valued) and shipping both ways for a sticker that didn't (at least at the time) add value if sold was a hard pass. Plus I am old and could never figure out how to find their submission form on their CGC look-a-like website, lol. If they went to more conventions and advertised I might swing by their booth with a couple books to check them out just for kicks to get my X-Men (1991) run some pretty stickers.

[jimbo_7071]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:09 AM, Professor K said:

Dang jimbo that Catman 31 truly is exceptional. All the colors line up perfectly. Is it from a pedigree collection? . 

No, not unless it's orphaned from one. Anyway, some very nice original-owner collections were sold off before the idea of a comic book pedigree gained traction, so there are quite a few very nice non-pedigree books out there.

[956Ref]

On 7/30/2023 at 3:55 AM, DougC said:

I toyed around with the idea of this but 2% of declared value (adjusted up if under valued) and shipping both ways for a sticker that didn't (at least at the time) add value if sold was a hard pass. Plus I am old and could never figure out how to find their submission form on their CGC look-a-like website, lol. If they went to more conventions and advertised I might swing by their booth with a couple books to check them out just for kicks to get my X-Men (1991) run some pretty stickers.

Well this would lead to question if the value placed on high value books for the service was like CGC, which is left to the submitter to decide, and is more for insurance purposes than deliberating costs. Maybe some that have actually submitted the books for the service can chime in on the process and their experience?

[Cat-Man_America]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:09 AM, Professor K said:

Dang jimbo that Catman 31 truly is exceptional. All the colors line up perfectly. Is it from a pedigree collection? . 

Jimbo's CatMan  #31 is absolutely beautiful, graded over 20 years ago, reposted for benefit of this discussion.

The color registration is about 99% with very slight, inconsequential red shift to right, not perfect, but very close. 

The PQ can't be seen, but it's clearly noted on the label. Is that what makes this particular copy exceptional, ...or is it the sticker? 

Spoiler

Here's another copy from another cat's collection: Same grade, but slight, noteworthy difference of opinion in respect to PQ on the label, and no sticker.

Alas, this poor unfortunate collector's trashy copy has a bit less writing on the cover, but lacks the revered sticker. 

Spoiler

Note: None of this takes away from the awesomeness of Jimbo's stellar copy. It's a superb book with or without a CVA sticker!  

Edited July 30, 2023 by Cat-Man_America

[Dark Knight]

On 7/29/2023 at 10:37 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

I'm not suggesting it can't be profitable for a seller who decides to invest in it (nor am I judging those who choose to do it); this is just a natural evolution of encapsulation. Collectors have a tendency to allow themselves to be subjected to this kind of abuse.  We could see grading the grade coming years before and many of us laughed about this prospect till someone monetized it proving the point. I'm just recognizing the ridiculousness of taking this kind of thing too seriously. From my perspective, it's kinda like a sports car driver wearing an STP patch. 

I do agree with this. We have our own eyes to judge which copy we would like to put into our collection. There are so many variables because some don't mind having books with marvel chipping or writing and such. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Yes a sticker from a third party is not really needed to make judgement on what is considered to be a top percentile copy (eye appeal-wise) of that book in that grade. Having tracked down copies with similar eye appeal where one has the sticker and one doesn't, most of the time, the copy with the sticker hammered a higher price. Some folks don't mind paying a premium for CVA or QES stickered books.  

My experience with CVA is that when I auctioned off a few of my books and asked if my 3 books would pass getting the CVA sticker, unfortunately only one of them was granted the sticker. The other two I really thought there was a great chance to achieve the sticker because they have as good of an eye appeal as the one. It seems there are pretty strict guidelines that must be met in order for the book get the CVA sticker.  It is not handed out freely no matter how high a value the book is worth.

[lou_fine]

On 7/29/2023 at 6:45 PM, bronze johnny said:

You can quantify the number of defects a comic book has and even determine whether a defect in question has a greater impact on the technical grade of a comic where a scale is used to measure and allow the grader(s) to arrive at a numerical number for the grade.

Given that it's summertime and the current hot weather, not sure if you've been drinking a bit too much of the CGC juice or not here.  

You actually make it sound as though grading is an exact science that can be done by mindless robots with 100% accuracy and 100% consistentcy.  Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but it's really nothing more than just a subjective opinion (albeit a so-called expert one) when the book hits a human graders table, and as such, subject to many different influencing factors.    

[lou_fine]

On 7/29/2023 at 11:17 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

How does anyone "know" that a book in the same grade presents better than the majority of other copies in the same grade? ...Ouija board? ...Turbaned Swami? ...Drug sniffin' canine unit? 

 

On 7/29/2023 at 8:41 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

I mean, you could have a remaindered copy with nicer eye appeal than other remaindered copies, right?

I don't think that's what the stickers are for as they are NOT being used to measure against other copies of the same book in the same grade.  

I believe they are looking more at the visual aesthetics and eye appeal of the book RELATIVE to what is standard or normally seen in that assigned CGC grade.  Something that CGC does not tend to pay as much attention to since their main focus is on the so-called "structural or technical" defects.    

As such, with a nicer presenting book, if you are indeed into the CPR game, you just might stand a better chance at an upgrade on the next go round if the book has one of these stickers on them.  

[lou_fine]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:55 AM, DougC said:

I toyed around with the idea of this but 2% of declared value (adjusted up if under valued) and shipping both ways for a sticker that didn't (at least at the time) add value if sold was a hard pass.

I seriously don't think anybody would use this service for a book which they intend to keep in their own personal collection, as I believe the only time it's used is upon resale when the auction house or consignor thinks it has a good chance of qualifying for one of these stickers.  

Then again, I would also never ever think of getting a book graded and slabbed for my personal collection and would only ever use a grading service when it comes time to sell a book.  

[jimbo_7071]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:02 PM, lou_fine said:

As such, with a nicer presenting book, if you are indeed into the CPR game, you just might stand a better chance at an upgrade on the next go round if the book has one of these stickers on them.  

I wouldn't bet on that. There are plenty of defects, like water marks and interior cover tanning, that are not visible through the slab, not always mentioned in the notes, and not pressable.

Quote

Then again, I would also never ever think of getting a book graded and slabbed for my personal collection and would only ever use a grading service when it comes time to sell a book.  

I appreciate that perspective, but you might be in the minority. Every book I've ever had slabbed has been for my personal collection. I have actually dropped things on comics in 4-mil Archives and had books get dings through the mylar, so I see the slabs as offering better protection from my clumsiness. I also trust them to keep out those damned silverfish better than anything else.

The peace of mind is worth the cost of a slab for any book that I care about even a little.

However, what you do isn't relevant, nor is what I do for that matter. Clearly, many collectors prefer their books in slabs—for whatever combination of reasons.

Edited July 30, 2023 by jimbo_7071

[jimbo_7071]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:05 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

Jimbo's CatMan  #31 is absolutely beautiful, graded over 20 years ago, reposted for benefit of this discussion.

The color registration is about 99% with very slight, inconsequential red shift to right, not perfect, but very close. 

The PQ can't be seen, but it's clearly noted on the label. Is that what makes this particular copy exceptional, ...or is it the sticker? 

  Hide contents

Here's another copy from another cat's collection: Same grade, but slight, noteworthy difference of opinion in respect to PQ on the label, and no sticker.

Alas, this poor unfortunate collector's trashy copy has a bit less writing on the cover, but lacks the revered sticker. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Note: None of this takes away from the awesomeness of Jimbo's stellar copy. It's a superb book with or without a CVA sticker!  

 

The registration and colors are fantastic; I think you have a very good chance of landing a coveted CVA sticker!

As awesome as those stickers are, to me, the risk of damage in shipping would ever-so-slightly outweigh the never-ending euphoria that comes from owning a CVA sticker, but every collector has to weigh the risks and make that call for himself or herself.

Edited July 31, 2023 by jimbo_7071

[bronze johnny]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:49 PM, lou_fine said:

Given that it's summertime and the current hot weather, not sure if you've been drinking a bit too much of the CGC juice or not here.  

You actually make it sound as though grading is an exact science that can be done by mindless robots with 100% accuracy and 100% consistentcy.  Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but it's really nothing more than just a subjective opinion (albeit a so-called expert one) when the book hits a human graders table, and as such, subject to many different influencing factors.    

Do you always laugh at your own jokes? Grading has a subjective part to it but there are factors that we use to measure where a books stands in terms of its grade. The process by which we arrive at a numerical grade for a book involves assessing those factors such as defects and deciding how much weight they are given. It’s open to interpretation given some of us may factor a defect differently and give it more or less weight when determining the numerical grade. We are applying a technical process to get some level of accuracy. CGC has standards and applies them to its grading process. They usually get some consensus on a grade and there are times when their graders don’t. That being said, there is no such thing for deciding whether a book presents well. It can’t be quantified.

I’m drinking a Zero Sugar Pepsi btw.

[lou_fine]

On 7/30/2023 at 1:19 PM, bronze johnny said:

Do you always laugh at your own jokes? Grading has a subjective part to it but there are factors that we use to measure where a books stands in terms of its grade. The process by which we arrive at a numerical grade for a book involves assessing those factors such as defects and deciding how much weight they are given. It’s open to interpretation given some of us may factor a defect differently and give it more or less weight when determining the numerical grade. We are applying a technical process to get some level of accuracy. CGC has standards and applies them to its grading process. They usually get some consensus on a grade and there are times when their graders don’t. That being said, there is no such thing for deciding whether a book presents well. It can’t be quantified.

I’m drinking a Zero Sugar Pepsi btw.

I always like to add a touch of humor every now and then to lighten up the mood a bit, especially since this place gets a bit too serious at times. 

That's actually an excellent and well thought out post which I have absolutely no problems agreeing with, as it's indeed a little bit of both.  A bit of science in terms of an acceptable condition grade range based upon the type and quantity of technical defects plus a little bit of subjectivity (i.e. open to interpretation) thrown in there on top just to spice things up and to keep us conspiracy theorists from dying of boredom and falling asleep here.    

BTW:  No Zero or non-diet drinks for me since they are so absolutely tasteless.  

Edited July 30, 2023 by lou_fine

[bronze johnny]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:35 PM, lou_fine said:

I always like to add a touch of humor every now and then to lighten up the mood a bit, especially since this place gets a bit too serious at times. 

That's actually an excellent and well thought out post which I have absolutely no problems agreeing with, as it's indeed a little bit of both.  A bit of science in terms of an acceptable condition grade range based upon the type and quantity of technical defects plus a little bit of subjectivity (i.e. open to interpretation) thrown in there on top just to spice things up and to keep us conspiracy theorists from dying of boredom and falling asleep here.    

BTW:  No Zero or non-diet drinks for me since they are so absolutely tasteless.  

I actually love a guy who laughs at his own jokes

Unlike Diet Coke, No Sugar Pepsi if excellent in terms of taste. Try it if you haven’t.

[RareHighGrade]

As a buyer of books at auctions based on CGC grades and scans, I disagree with the suggestion that this type of certification provides no value.  Most of us have had the experience of buying an auctioned book that appeared to be properly graded, only to be disappointed with how the book looked once it was in hand.  On the two occasions that I purchased books on Clink that had the CVA certification, once I had the books in hand, they appeared to be one to two grades higher than that assigned by CGC.  Based on this personal experience, I am willing to pay somewhat higher for a CVA certified book.

I've never bought a book that was certified by QES, so I have no opinion on the value of that company's certification.

[lou_fine]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:38 PM, bronze johnny said:

I actually love a guy who laughs at his own jokes

Well, let's not forget these are the "funny books" that we are collecting here after all, and it should be about fun and having a good time while we are doing it.    

[956Ref]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:28 PM, Dark Knight said:

I do agree with this. We have our own eyes to judge which copy we would like to put into our collection. There are so many variables because some don't mind having books with marvel chipping or writing and such. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Yes a sticker from a third party is not really needed to make judgement on what is considered to be a top percentile copy (eye appeal-wise) of that book in that grade. Having tracked down copies with similar eye appeal where one has the sticker and one doesn't, most of the time, the copy with the sticker hammered a higher price. Some folks don't mind paying a premium for CVA or QES stickered books.  

My experience with CVA is that when I auctioned off a few of my books and asked if my 3 books would pass getting the CVA sticker, unfortunately only one of them was granted the sticker. The other two I really thought there was a great chance to achieve the sticker because they have as good of an eye appeal as the one. It seems there are pretty strict guidelines that must be met in order for the book get the CVA sticker.  It is not handed out freely no matter how high a value the book is worth.

Did you request that books you were auctioning be considered for the CVA sticker or did the consignment director suggest it? Also did that require any additional steps on your behalf?

[Dark Knight]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:12 PM, 956Ref said:

Did you request that books you were auctioning be considered for the CVA sticker or did the consignment director suggest it? Also did that require any additional steps on your behalf?

I requested them to be checked out for the CVA sticker. No additional steps at all. Just sent the books to the auction house and they handled everything else.