Heritage Auctions Preview 8/22-8/25 Chicago 2 2

[J.Sid]

Here is a picture of the published page, from the Graphitti Gallery Edition. It appears the only thing pasted on are the balloons:

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by J.Sid

[J.Sid]

I predict the HA auction will set a record price for a prelim.

[gumbydarnit]

For those interested, Felix Lu interviewed Frank Miller’s art dealer Scott Free, who brought a lot of Dark Knight Returns pages to market. It’s a most interesting listen: 

https://www.felixcomicart.com/podcastdetail.asp?pId=21

It may answer some of your questions, but as Felix states “many years have passed” so memories may be a bit fuzzy. I know mine would be!

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by gumbydarnit

[Sideshow Bob]

On 8/17/2023 at 4:38 PM, J.Sid said:

I predict the HA auction will set a record price for a prelim.

More like a tryout page...

[Nexus]

IIRC, the first page in the sequence is mostly published. With the exception of the two panels below (which I own). Miller re-inked these two panels for publication.

OTOH, the second page is entirely re-inked by Miller. So there are two complete pages, one published, one unpublished (the one being auctioned).

I had my shot at that published second page from the original owner (who had been gifted that page from Miller circa 1986/87) around 15 years ago. A (still painful) story for a future podcast.

 

[drdonaldblake1]

So,unpublished pages .....but will still bring a high price no doubt.

Will be a very interesting final price.

[gumbydarnit]

We seem to do a lot of detective work for heritage perhaps they’ll give us a little cut from the buyers premium on this lot ; )

[tth2]

On 8/19/2023 at 8:35 PM, gumbydarnit said:

We seem to do a lot of detective work for heritage perhaps they’ll give us a little cut from the buyers premium on this lot ; )

In this case, I'm not sure Heritage (or the consignor) appreciates our detective work. 

[tth2]

On 8/19/2023 at 5:00 AM, Nexus said:

IIRC, the first page in the sequence is mostly published. With the exception of the two panels below (which I own). Miller re-inked these two panels for publication.

OTOH, the second page is entirely re-inked by Miller. So there are two complete pages, one published, one unpublished (the one being auctioned).

Felix, do you know what is under Miller's re-inks?  Is it a reproduction of his original pencils? 

[BCarter27]

On 8/19/2023 at 9:06 AM, tth2 said:

 Is it a reproduction of his original pencils? 

I'd guess lightboxed with no pencils. Has anyone ever seen uninked Xeroxes? Copies of the pencils may never have been made.

Discussion and reproduction here-

 

[EXPhysiker]

Since this is an international signature auction, the buyer have to pay 25% BP. Don't know why the seller put this in the international and not in the US signature auction.

[Nexus]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:06 AM, tth2 said:

Felix, do you know what is under Miller's re-inks?  Is it a reproduction of his original pencils? 

On my two panels, I see no indication of pencils. Likewise, I own this page:

Panels 1, 2, 3 on tier 2 along with the big panel of Batman swimming in tier 3, are all re-inked by Miller for publication (original Janson inks underneath). I don't see any pencils here, either.

Finally, I had Miller recreate the famous splash many years later that was originally inked by Janson:

Also, no pencils.

For all of these, it really does look like he went straight to inks. Very possibly with an aid of some kind. A lightbox has been suggested, which seems plausible, although I've never used one so can't say for sure one way or another. Frank has never confirmed to me his method in any case.

It's been a long time since I saw the page in question but my hunch is that it's the same situation: Redrawn straight to inks, no pencils.

[tth2]

Thanks Felix.  And wow! 

[tth2]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:57 AM, EXPhysiker said:

Since this is an international signature auction, the buyer have to pay 25% BP. Don't know why the seller put this in the international and not in the US signature auction.

Shouldn't affect the buyer, as all you need to do is factor the 25% BP into whatever is the gross price you're willing to pay.  If you're willing to pay $1000, then divide $1,000 by 1.25 and the max bid you would submit is $800. 

If it were a regular Heritage auction with a 20% BP, then the max gross price I'd be willing to pay would still be $1000, but the max bid I would submit would be $833 (divide $1,000 by 1.20). 

As for why the seller consigned to the international auction, I would guess that the seller is located in Europe and there is a tax advantage for selling in Europe rather than in the US.   

[Nate Hartz]

[J.Sid]

Published version is so much more intense IMO.

Notice all the glue stains on the published page. My guess is he thought he'd be OK to just redraw the big bottom panel and stat the smaller top ones, but then saw how much better it was turning out and decided to rip off the stat and redrew the rest.

[buttock]

On 8/21/2023 at 10:29 AM, J.Sid said:

Published version is so much more intense IMO.

Notice all the glue stains on the published page. My guess is he thought he'd be OK to just redraw the big bottom panel and stat the smaller top ones, but then saw how much better it was turning out and decided to rip off the stat and redrew the rest.

Definitely a different style.  Janson was more classic and Miller more stylized.  You can tell the effect he was going for and why he would redo it.  

[stinkininkin]

Janson is on my Mt Rushmore of inkers, and his work with Miller on DD is one of the high points of superhero comics in the history of the medium (IMHO). That said, the Miller inked version of the above sequence is so superior to the Janson inked version in every way (again, IMHO). I think it's just fascinating that both versions exist and is an excellent example of how the differences in link line, aesthetic and intention can influence pencils and storytelling so profoundly. 

[Nate Hartz]

I always like to see what a different inker does to a piece of art. I thought the Gallery Edition of DKR was so interesting. 

[drdonaldblake1]

On 8/22/2023 at 2:29 AM, J.Sid said:

Published version is so much more intense IMO.

Notice all the glue stains on the published page. My guess is he thought he'd be OK to just redraw the big bottom panel and stat the smaller top ones, but then saw how much better it was turning out and decided to rip off the stat and redrew the rest.

Will those glue stains damage the paper and will they spread with time? 

Should they be professionally removed and if they are does that affect the arts value?