IceHole Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 Visiting this topic because I saw something on the ebay that left me scratching my head about a submission. Figured this would be a better place for this topic because there is a difference between "original art" and a prelim...and you guys are the more educated about the topic. These were submitted to CGC...purchased at Rob Liefeld's Whatnot sales where he had David Hong, a CGC witness to handle CGC submissions for all things Signature Series. Asked David to sub these and they all got REJECTED by CGC for being "published art". (insert sad face emoji here) Clickady Clacking on ebay and I saw the JSC prelim...CGC encapsulated and witnessed and all thing pretty. So CGC does encapsulate prelims...but why not my subs? A friend of mine showed me Capullo "grab bag" prelims also encapsulated by CGC SS from a Torpedo Comics event...those are the same size as my tiny ones also? @CGC Mike can I weigh in on your opinion also as to if these are "published" or prelim sketches and where the reject scale is with CGC. Readcomix and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator CGC Mike Posted August 24, 2023 Administrator Share Posted August 24, 2023 I checked with the team and this is what I was told: We currently do not encapsulate published art. This includes prelims. The Campbell one, consisting of several partial sketches on a piece of paper, is far enough removed/dissimilar from the finished art to allow it. As for the Liefeld ones, they are generally complete and broken down into the panels used in the finished published book. I'm not familiar with the Capullo ones mentioned, they may have been before my time or like the Campbell one, far enough removed from the published work to allow it. We are planning on offering a service for the grading of published art in the future, though currently there is no set time frame for this service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceHole Posted August 24, 2023 Author Share Posted August 24, 2023 Many thanx for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyCollector Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 On 8/23/2023 at 8:07 PM, CGC Mike said: We are planning on offering a service for the grading of published art in the future For what purpose? And at whose demand? Because I don't see us asking for it. MAR1979 and grapeape 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 3:08 PM, KirbyCollector said: For what purpose? And at whose demand? Because I don't see us asking for it. Maybe something a little different, like confirmation that the page is the way it was actually published, and that it was a published page. Although, that might cut into the Brothers line of business. IngelsFan, Terry E. Gibbs and grapeape 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MAR1979 Posted August 24, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 24, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 6:00 PM, Rick2you2 said: Maybe something a little different, like confirmation that the page is the way it was actually published, and that it was a published page. Although, that might cut into the Brothers line of business. Authentication fine. Grading is for all intent and purpose meaningless on one-of-a-kind original art. grapeape, Rick2you2, Dr. Balls and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 7:21 PM, MAR1979 said: Authentication fine. Grading is for all intent and purpose meaningless on one-of-a-kind original art. Yup - completely useless. Rick2you2, MAR1979 and grapeape 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator CGC Mike Posted August 25, 2023 Administrator Share Posted August 25, 2023 I don't have any additional information, other than what I have posted. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vodou Posted August 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2023 When can we expect NFT encapsulation and grading? 😉 alxjhnsn, MyNameIsLegion, grapeape and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel013 Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 8:36 PM, vodou said: 10.0 GEM MINT When can we expect NFT encapsulation and grading? 😉 I have encapsulated and graded your comment 10.0 GEM MINT. grapeape and Terry E. Gibbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MyNameIsLegion Posted August 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 7:49 PM, grendel013 said: I have encapsulated and graded your comment 10.0 GEM MINT. And I made a Low Rez screen shot for free! grapeape, J.Sid, grendel013 and 5 others 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsLegion Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 5:00 PM, Rick2you2 said: Maybe something a little different, like confirmation that the page is the way it was actually published, and that it was a published page. Although, that might cut into the Brothers line of business. Suddenly, half the art in HA or Clink that’s ever gone thru their greasy hands gets the dreaded PLOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artdealer Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 9:24 PM, MyNameIsLegion said: Suddenly, half the art in HA or Clink that’s ever gone thru their greasy hands gets the dreaded PLOD So tell me… who at CGC is qualified to authenticate original art? Terry E. Gibbs and Michael Browning 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyCollector Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/24/2023 at 10:07 PM, artdealer said: So tell me… who at CGC is qualified to authenticate original art? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*paull* Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/23/2023 at 8:07 PM, CGC Mike said: We are planning on offering a service for the grading of published art in the future, though currently there is no set time frame for this service. I wouldn't waste your time with that. MAR1979, pemart1966 and Terry E. Gibbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 12:57 AM, *paull* said: I wouldn't waste your time with that. Oh, there will be quite a few collecting doofuses who will want this service and there will also be those who won't buy unless it's a 9.8 page... of that I'm sure. True story. I was in a comic shop about a month ago and the shop owner asked me to sell him some key comics from my collection, so I had them there and the guy came over and was snooping to see what I had. He asked me if he could buy some -- but he wanted me to put them on hold for him while he made payments. I'm talking about $100-$300 keys, not AF 15s. I told him no, I would not do that. He then told the comic shop owner that he doesn't buy anything that's not CGC graded and slabbed because ordinary collectors aren't capable of giving correct grades on comics, only CGC was able to do that and he won't buy anything that's not graded, which surprised me since he was asking to buy my comics and none of them were graded. Doofuses. So many doofuses. I'm certain this will happen with comic art collectors when CGC starts grading and slabbing original art. J.Sid, Will_K and *paull* 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceHole Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 I'm sure the term "grading" is misused here and "encapsulating" is what was meant...under some sort of CGC Signature Series like you would see at conventions for sketches and like the JSC prelim pic I attached. Those do not have grades attached. This kinda talk always takes me to the TV series "Pawn Stars" were Rick is looking at a page of original art, but refuses to buy because there is no "letter of authenticity" attached...so how would he know if it's the real deal sorta thing. Solely a intro problem for the non collector that an encapsulation option would help. This is why I wanted these prelims encapsulated...the average joe wouldn't understand the prelim aspect of the artist job. These loose pieces of art may get lost as scribbles in peoples collections...where I thought the encapsulation with CGC would help keep them from getting lost in my collection. When I leave them to my wife and kids, I'd like them to not think I was a midnight doodler and padding my collection! Some prelims are wild scribbles, so keeping the artist name attached with encapsulation is helpful. Now this submission is from the artist, so no expert needed. There is an absurdity to actually "grading" the art...but I can see submitting original art to cgc, from artists, at conventions for encapsulation...where current art would be left in your grubby little hands for play folks. Will_K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Balls Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 I don't know what to think of that statement that CGC is looking into grading/authenticating original artwork. I don't know how that would translate into being able to display the collection as I see the label as being a real distraction of the art, and I would be averse to paying a "premium" for a piece that was slabbed only to crack it out and put it into a frame. I'm guessing this service would appeal more to dealers? Andahaion and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAR1979 Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 With collectibles grading is a way to rank something against another of the same thing. Take ASM 129 if you want a high grade copy you can seek out a 9.6 or a 9.8. However if you want the actual hand drawn original published cover art there is only 1. You cant get the ASM129 published cover in nicer or lesser condition as it does not and can never exist. Authentication is ok, but would need wide spread acceptance to curb the immoral, unethical and possibly illegal practices of the bros in San Mateo. I dont see widespread acceptance occuring for published OA. At best seems niche and even that might be a stretch. pemart1966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyCollector Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) Say CGC decides to start authenticating unpublished art. How would they do it? Are they actually going to chemically date the paper and ink? No, of course not -- they will just take the word of the consignor and slab it. Which is to say, there will be no real authentication done at all -- leaving us right at the place we are now, at the mercy of forgers who can recreate any art style all day long (I wonder how many of those hundreds of undated Hellboy head sketches are real...). Short of an actual forensic process being applied, or obtaining a piece with documented provenance, buying any unpublished art is a risk and will always be so. Edited August 25, 2023 by KirbyCollector MAR1979 and fenip 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
