Comicart live Nov 2023 discussion 3 3

[Dr. Balls]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:19 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Bill could refuse to take their money in a heartbeat. The fact he doesn't tell you what he values. Hint: It ain't you.

I don’t think it’s that cut-and-dry when it’s a business. You have to allow everyone to come in, participate and be a member of the community - even if it means some people don’t do what you (the business owner) think they should do, act or how they conduct business.

I think as a business owner, you have to consider your business as its own entity and personality that is separate from yours.

 

[BVladimirHarkonnen]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:19 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Bill could refuse to take their money in a heartbeat. The fact he doesn't tell you what he values. Hint: It ain't you.

I feel like this is your mental image. 

[KirbyCollector]

On 11/13/2023 at 11:15 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I don’t think it’s that cut-and-dry when it’s a business. You have to allow everyone to come in, participate and be a member of the community - even if it means some people don’t do what you (the business owner) think they should do, act or how they conduct business.

I think as a business owner, you have to consider your business as its own entity and personality that is separate from yours.

 

Taking money from an unethical entity, whose unethical conduct is well known and directly affects members of your community, is tantamount to endorsement. I am sorry, but there is no other way to view it from a business ethics standpoint.

Edited November 13, 2023 by KirbyCollector

[cloud cloddie]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:19 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Bill could refuse to take their money in a heartbeat. The fact he doesn't tell you what he values. Hint: It ain't you.

It’s not like Los Bros are the only shady dealers. And people seem to forget an admitted shiller is part owner of CAF. 
In the end, Bill is running a business and it’s not his job to police the comic art market, nor do I think he should be in that role. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 11/13/2023 at 10:11 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Taking money from an unethical entity, whose unethical conduct is well known and directly affects members of your community, is tantamount to endorsement. I am sorry, but there is no other way to view it from a business ethics standpoint.

However - and by no means am I disagreeing (I am aware of the scammy "unused" commission art cover thing, along with a wide variety of other things Boardies point out about these guys)  - the longer viewpoint is that by a business taking a stand (which would be good) could turn into a slippery slope (which would be bad). When does banning a member based on observations turn into banning another member based on hearsay? Especially if that hearsay comes from a trusted member of the community with a beef towards someone else? What happens when you don't take action, now your trusted member feels slighted and creates animosity where it didn't exist before. Because you've taken a stand, you're introducing elements into your business plan that require constant managing, sapping time and morale with what probably amounts to an endless stream of backbiting.

There's a fine line between those business ethics of not engaging with someone and establishing boundaries of involvement to preserve the business' ability to operate and function. Everyone is free to accuse and recriminate, support and vilify - but when it comes to your business openly doing that, I think it requires additional thinking. This is comic book art, not selling missile defense systems to the Russians, the ethical quandary here has a lot more room for movement I think.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[G.A.tor]

I saw one page I was already aware of that I would have like to have bought, but just felt it was higher than I valued it at...

[Drummy]

Somehow I missed the entire thing.  Maybe glad I did! 

Dan

[artdisease]

There were a few pieces I was interested in, but ultimately passed. Ive just bought too much this year. I still get excited for CAL and enjoyed looking at all the art, though.

[davidtere]

I first searched for artists I was interested in. No luck. Then, I sifted through at least 3/4 of the art starting from highest to lowest. There were about 10 pieces that I was willing to take a closer look, but 8 out of the ten pieces, that caught my attention, and were fairly priced, were already gone (at least they had been removed). I'm guessing that means that someone was selling. 

Ultimately, I ended up not purchasing anything. I appreciate CAF and CAL. IMHO, many of the biggest dealers are pricing OA much like someone in this thread already stated, not like it's 2023, but like it's 2033. I wish them well. 

[justadude]

Sold 4 pieces, 3 of which were under $100, and bought a great one I thought was below FMV. Definitely seemed like less buyers overall but that follows consumer confidence at the moment. There are always the outrageous prices but I see those as a "price it'll take for me to sell" more than FMV. Didn't quite understand the ComicLink $0 previews...

At least there wasn't a $3 million dollar asking price piece?

[alxjhnsn]

I have my want list setup, it got one ping for a piece well above what I can/would pay. That's okay.

[Xatari]

I don't know if it's just me, but I wish there was a way to sort out all unpublished pieces.  I felt like this year had an increase in commissions and "amateur art", so I would not be surprised to see a lower % sold figure based on this alone. 

My strategy as a seller was to list a few massive pieces for "dream prices", a lot of mid tier stuff for just above market, then lower tier stuff at or below market.  I ended up selling three pieces total.  One was under market based on a similar comp, the other two were last minute offers at significantly reduced prices sent out to those who had my pieces saved.  I'm glad art is circulating and hope the new owners truly enjoy the pieces they purchased.  

It was a fun event, but I'm not sure the juice was worth the squeeze for me this time around.  As a buyer I typically find 1-2 pieces I REALLY want.  This year, there wasn't anything that grabbed me.  As a seller, the time to scan and list didn't justify my involvement.  I'll likely sit the next one out and see how it goes.  Having this one right before big Heritage and ComicLink auctions may have also changed the dynamic with would-be buyers holding cash for auction dreams.

[BVladimirHarkonnen]

It was a neat event and I like the panels that coincide, especially just getting to listen to more stories from Howard Chaykin.

I had saved a bunch of stuff and seemed plenty of sellers were ready to wheel and deal (based on email offers) I ended up picking up one piece that I liked and made an offer on. 

Seller for that was great to work with as well, which is also a plus. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by BVladimirHarkonnen
typo

[Unstoppablejayd]

Another great show! Yes some prices where very high… yes some art we have scene before.. I have no problem with either of those things because stuff I thought was over priced sold, good for the seller and buyer!, and pieces I’ve seen before sold, good for the buyer and seller! People’s tastes and cash flow change!

for me I bought a great piece from one of my favorite stories ( thanks @Brian Peck) I finished up a cash trade deal that has started and stopped for a while ,sold two other pieces (one I have offered before) to help fund the page I bought! Also got to host a panel with one of my favorite modern artists. So overall a great event as usual ( thank you @Bill Cox) !

Edited November 14, 2023 by Unstoppablejayd
Wrong Grant Tagged

[John E.]

On 11/13/2023 at 1:35 AM, Brian Peck said:

I was annoyed at some of the lack of etiquette.

This was my experience in the May show. Tire kickers who turn to ghosts. CAL is never held during a convenient weekend for me and so I have to remove myself from the people I’m with to type out a long answer regarding the condition of the piece or whatever. Then zilch. A simple “I’ll pass, thank you” would suffice. No foul. I had a known figure in the hobby inquire about a piece but didn’t want to pay my asking price. Went back and forth a bit but someone was willing to pay the full price. And when I let this person know, I could feel the eye roll in the response. Okay, I’ll make note of that for the future. 

[Unstoppablejayd]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:07 PM, John E. said:

This was my experience in the May show. Tire kickers who turn to ghosts. CAL is never held during a convenient weekend for me and so I have to remove myself from the people I’m with to type out a long answer regarding the condition of the piece or whatever. Then zilch. A simple “I’ll pass, thank you” would suffice. No foul. I had a known figure in the hobby inquire about a piece but didn’t want to pay my asking price. Went back and forth a bit but someone was willing to pay the full price. And when I let this person know, I could feel the eye roll in the response. Okay, I’ll make note of that for the future. 

I agree.. people need to learn to close the loop. Saying no thanks is ok… just as long as you respond lol. 

[John E.]

It wasn’t a convenient weekend so I had planned to sit this one out. But I’d peek in throughout the show and decided to jump in the fray on Sunday. I only posted 3 pieces and all repeat from the previous show. Sold 2. Small value and under market.
 

After selling in 7 of the last 8 shows I’m low on inventory. I stopped going to comic cons where I’d pick up small pieces on impulse buys. Everything is so expensive everywhere that I can’t even do impulse buys on eBay anymore and just sell later when the novelty has run out. I had a theory that they’d be less art posted than last show because of this. I’ve noticed longtime collectors who brought the heat the first 2-3 shows are no longer setting up. Maybe they’ve run out of inventory too? But with 6500 pieces posted I was wrong. Maybe half are commissions as Mike points out.
 

The spirit of “priced to sell” is getting away. I get why some pieces are priced to not leave meat on the bone. Others not so much. Sure, one can point out to greed, but there are a few predators out there who can smell a flip 49 states away. I don’t sell anything that I think can do better in auction, but if I do, I don’t put an “aspirational” price tag on it. I like to refer to the price tag as “anti-flip” or “dealer repellent.”

[Dr. Balls]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:13 AM, Unstoppablejayd said:

I agree.. people need to learn to close the loop. Saying no thanks is ok… just as long as you respond lol. 

The last seller I did that to responded so hilariously snarky, I had to post it here. But it doesn’t deter me from “closing the loop” (great term, BTW). I just feel it’s important to be polite and not leave someone hanging.

It’s not a lot of effort to say “thank you, but I’m going to pass for now”.

[timguerrero]

On 11/13/2023 at 11:21 AM, cloud cloddie said:

It’s not like Los Bros are the only shady dealers. And people seem to forget an admitted shiller is part owner of CAF. 
In the end, Bill is running a business and it’s not his job to police the comic art market, nor do I think he should be in that role. 

Heritage shill bidder? I didn't know he owned part of CAF interesting.

[vodou]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:28 AM, timguerrero said:

Heritage shill bidder? I didn't know he owned part of CAF interesting.

He owns everything, you just don’t know it. Yet 😉