ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[LDarkseid1]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:09 PM, Bo1983 said:

People will always find a way that is why slabs are flawed!

I agree with your first part, not your second. People will always find a way with literally anything. So by that principle everything in existence is flawed. Nothing will ever be full proof. Doesn’t mean you can’t improve though of course. Which is what CGC needs to do. And if someone figures out a new flaw or loophole than you do it again.

Edited December 22, 2023 by LDarkseid1

[Bo1983]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:12 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

I agree with your first part, not your second. People will always find a way with literally anything. So by principle everything in existence is flawed. Nothing will ever be full proof. 

It’s sad but true morals are subjective

Edited December 22, 2023 by Bo1983

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:11 PM, Iconic1s said:

No Sir, I wouldn’t buy the book… I was just “liking” the post/train of thought.

This does remind me of when I first got to these forums though.  I asked what I thought was an honest question about a book I was interested in.  It was a CGC 9.8 but did not look like a 9.8 at all from the scans.  I was instructed by a highly respected member of this community, to look at the number in the upper left corner of the slab as if I were stupid. Irony 

In that case, I did buy the book and my concerns ended up being caused by the seller’s scanner.

That definitely isn’t the case here though!  This is just another example of CGC cutting corners… pretty obvious that reholders aren’t seen/looked at closely by the graders… they go straight to the same people slabbing shards of plastic, hair, etc with our books, and shipping cracked holders back to us.  When it comes to reholders, this MJ annotation is probably just looked at as a clerical issue that is delegated to these same people… or graders are just too swamped to take a real serious look.  Plus, we already know QC is non-existent… based only on luck and ROI… it’s cheaper to push ‘em through and deal with the small % of books that get sent back, than to fix any ID’ed problem before they leave CGC.

This seller, and maybe others, have probably been doing this awhile because CGC has been more concerned with volume, than quality for a while now.  This just got attention because it was pulled on a very specific type of book that caught the attention of someone that was a true expert on that type of book. 

This incident is a super bummer but not really a surprise based on the way that company is being ran.  BTW - where is CGC on this?

I hope I wasn't the boardie who said that. I've felt that way when buying myself but Lord willing wouldn't give it as "advice!"

I have books that I believe are somewhat over graded, and I think of being in the sellers position and how I'd be a respectful buyer and just pass, but as a seller I can't guarantee that I'd be offered the same courtesy or certainly not from everyone

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[Sigur Ros]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:12 PM, JC25427N said:

The guy who replied below me says he has an easier time cracking other guy slabs with no damage,

Yeah, I saw that claim. He also says tats are over a year.  So I quickly realized he's not actually familiar with them and I kept scrolling.

Anyway, I was replying to the guy who claims all slabs are suspect now.  

I couldn't disagree more.

[LDarkseid1]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:13 PM, Bo1983 said:

It’s sad but true morals are subjective

Yeah I mean scammers truly are the worst, the scum of the scum. If anything and I’m looking at this from a positive stand point, it’s a good thing this happened. It shows our community is extremely observant and looking out for each other. Although I feel horrible for the people that purchased the comics in question. They should be made right, and by suing the seller and recouping all costs.
 

[JC25427N]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:18 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Anyway, I was replying to the guy who claims all slabs are suspect now.  

I couldn't disagree more.

Yeah, and I was replying to you claiming that he must only say that because he's never owned an other guy slab. I read that as you implying that it's only other guy slabs that aren't suspect, that other guy slabs could never possibly be suspect

I couldn't disagree more (if that's what you meant)

Edited December 22, 2023 by JC25427N

[Sigur Ros]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:21 PM, JC25427N said:

I read that as you implying that it's only other guy slabs that aren't suspect,

No, I meant all the other guy's, not just the one.

When something goes seriously bad here, as we've seen many times the past few years alone, people start throwing out the "Yea, it could happen with the other guys too", or "Yea well the other guys lost books!!"...as if CGC hasn't lost a lot more.

Some people will try and distract from, or even defend this, by throwing out other company names. It's very predictable.  And it's also stupid.

Anyway, back to the actual topic....

CGC employee helping buddy re-slab with new labels for high profits, or something...

[JC25427N]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:38 PM, Sigur Ros said:

No, I meant all the other guy's, not just the one.

When something goes seriously bad here, as we've seen many times the past few years alone, people start throwing out the "Yea, it could happen with the other guys too", or "Yea well the other guys lost books!!"...as if CGC hasn't lost a lot more.

Some people will try and distract from, or even defend this, by throwing out other company names. It's very predictable.  And it's also stupid.

 

Sure I can agree with that but I think you're being disingenuous when you say all other guys...we all know there's really only one other guy , and I also think its stupid and equally predictable that when something goes seriously bad here that people will start to use it as a platform to tout the "superiority" of some other guys despite their difference in circumstances. 

But yeah, back to the actual topic we can go

edit:  (Please don't just quote the part I wrote in parenthesis above with some snide remark and ignore the rest of my statement) edit2: I just went ahead and removed it 

Edited December 22, 2023 by JC25427N

[Changer]

opportunity? ... we need another company to grade the CGC slabs 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Changer

[agamoto]

Player 3 has entered the Hulk 181 Game... 

So, there's this book, certification # 426504003 Sold Oct 23 on eBay.

Thanks to Automatic Comics, we know the slab was actually from that 8.5 missing MVS copy. 

Here's where it gets especially strange. The seller of the above comic had ALREADY sold that same cert# book, twice. 

$9900 on Sep 14, 2023... Again, this book, the one that ended up reholdered and resold, had already been sold by the seller.

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out here, but here's the same cert slab, but totally different comic ALSO sold by the same seller.

This one was sold for $9995 on July 10, 2023. 

Is this guy selling to himself??? 

There's more! 

On Jul 26, 2023, he sold this one, different cert#

And this one, on July 17th, different Cert #

There's no way in hell that's a 9.0

There's more! 

He sold an 8.5 blue on Aug 14th

And another 8.5 custom blue on Jun 12

Oh, there's another from Oct 18, 2023 too.

I could keep going. This seller has moved this Hulk 15 times in the past 2 years.

My head is spinning.

[drotto]

Ok, I know some people do not like some random forum person putting out random ideas, but here me out.  When you buy a computer or electronic device, the often put a sticker that reads if broken or tampered with warrantee will be void, across edges that can be opened. They could add this style sticker to the edge of slabs, and if that sticker is broken, the comic must be regraded to retain it's certificate number and grade. Simple, cheap, no need for a new slab.

[Changer]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:42 PM, agamoto said:

Player 3 has entered the Hulk 181 Game... 

So, there's this book, certification # 426504003 Sold Oct 23 on eBay.

Thanks to Automatic Comics, we know the slab was actually from that 8.5 missing MVS copy. 

Here's where it gets especially strange. The seller of the above comic had ALREADY sold that same cert# book, twice. 

$9900 on Sep 14, 2023... Again, this book, the one that ended up reholdered and resold, had already been sold by the seller.

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out here, but here's the same cert slab, but totally different comic ALSO sold by the same seller.

This one was sold for $9995 on July 10, 2023. 

Is this guy selling to himself??? 

There's more! 

On Jul 26, 2023, he sold this one, different cert#

And this one, on July 17th, different Cert #

There's no way in hell that's a 9.0

There's more! 

He sold an 8.5 blue on Aug 14th

And another 8.5 custom blue on Jun 12

Oh, there's another from Oct 18, 2023 too.

I could keep going. This seller has moved this Hulk 15 times in the past 2 years.

My head is spinning.

maybe he was trying to pump up the value in the beginning? This guy must have a island if he did pull this off for 6 years. ironic it was a record breaking sale and the interest it drummed up, might have been the only thing stopping him from buying a small country.  

Edited December 22, 2023 by Changer

[JC25427N]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:48 PM, drotto said:

Ok, I know some people do not like some random forum person putting out random ideas, but here me out.  When you buy a computer or electronic device, the often put a sticker that reads if broken or tampered with warrantee will be void, across edges that can be opened. They could add this style sticker to the edge of slabs, and if that sticker is broken, the comic must be regraded to retain it's certificate number and grade. Simple, cheap, no need for a new slab.

Knowing what goes in the QC thread, they would probably ship out slabs forgetting to put the stickers on (or put them in the wrong place)

[drotto]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:42 PM, agamoto said:

Player 3 has entered the Hulk 181 Game... 

So, there's this book, certification # 426504003 Sold Oct 23 on eBay.

Thanks to Automatic Comics, we know the slab was actually from that 8.5 missing MVS copy. 

Here's where it gets especially strange. The seller of the above comic had ALREADY sold that same cert# book, twice. 

$9900 on Sep 14, 2023... Again, this book, the one that ended up reholdered and resold, had already been sold by the seller.

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out here, but here's the same cert slab, but totally different comic ALSO sold by the same seller.

This one was sold for $9995 on July 10, 2023. 

Is this guy selling to himself??? 

There's more! 

On Jul 26, 2023, he sold this one, different cert#

And this one, on July 17th, different Cert #

There's no way in hell that's a 9.0

There's more! 

He sold an 8.5 blue on Aug 14th

And another 8.5 custom blue on Jun 12

Oh, there's another from Oct 18, 2023 too.

I could keep going. This seller has moved this Hulk 15 times in the past 2 years.

My head is spinning.

I suspect these are a mix of original books that were purchased, the swapped copy, and possibly the regraded "legitimate" book. He is obviously doing the same basic thing multiple times. 

[Bo1983]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:56 PM, drotto said:

I suspect these are a mix of original books that were purchased, the swapped copy, and possibly the regraded "legitimate" book. He is obviously doing the same basic thing multiple times. 

If there’s one then there’s thousands all ready out there I bet!

[bsmith]

On 12/21/2023 at 6:28 PM, bsmith said:

7 year lurker, but didn't see anyone else talking about this so....

Here is an old ebay listing of an Incredible Hulk #181 8.5. It sold in 2021. The ebay user "Zaneglor" had their account closed since then.

https://mavin.io/item/Incredible-Hulk-%23-181-cgc-8.5-Stan-Lee%2C1-st-Wolverine-Movie-coming-180-x%3Dmen?itemId=255118082750&q=X-men %23181

If you search the serial number on GPA, it sold (twice) in 2021, assumingly by this ebay user. It also sold Sept 13 2020 on Heritage. 

Again, this is clearly a different book and this guy has been doing it for years.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/bronze-age-1970-1979-/superhero/the-incredible-hulk-181-marvel-1974-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/122037-13267.s

Bumping since I just got approved and I don't think anyone saw it

[JC25427N]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:59 PM, bsmith said:

Bumping since I just got approved and I don't think anyone saw it

WTTB 

[agamoto]

FYI, here's a pic showing this sellers 20 biggest sales since 2011.

That JSCampbell Wolverine cover... He apparently sold it, twice. In 2022, and again in 2023.

How the frig can this guy afford the eBay fees?!? Surely, eBay has a limit to the number of times the guy can claim no payment before they cut him off. 

[JC25427N]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:02 PM, agamoto said:

FYI, here's a pic showing this sellers 20 biggest sales since 2011.

That JSCampbell Wolverine cover... He apparently sold it, twice. In 2022, and again in 2023.

How the frig can this guy afford the eBay fees?!? Surely, eBay has a limit to the number of times the guy can claim no payment before they cut him off. 

Ebay fees are capped at $750 IIRC, so on the really big "sales" he didn't have to pay that much (relatively) in fees

[Bo1983]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:02 PM, agamoto said:

FYI, here's a pic showing this sellers 20 biggest sales since 2011.

That JSCampbell Wolverine cover... He apparently sold it, twice. In 2022, and again in 2023.

How the frig can this guy afford the eBay fees?!? Surely, eBay has a limit to the number of times the guy can claim no payment before they cut him off. 

Market manipulation and swooping out books could be a inside job?